What Excites Us!

Episode 52: Body Sex & More with Jennifer Rahner

Transcript:

Gwyn: This podcast is about sex and sexuality, so please only listen if you are an adult without kids or other ears around that cannot, or do not consent to sensitive language and content. Thanks.

[00:00:14] Jennifer Rahner: not only were so many of us not taught everything there is to know about vulvas, but also the clitoris wasn't really understood until like the eighties.

[00:00:40] Gwyn Isaacs: Hello, and welcome to what excites us. The podcast that discusses sex and sexuality from a variety of perspectives. So that you will know you are not alone in your desires, and hopefully we can help you release some shame that you may be carrying around in your sex life. My name is Gwen Isaacs. I'm a certified sex coach who has been professionally helping folks feel good about their sex and sexuality and how to approach it with glee. Since 2017.

[00:01:09] Today's guest is Jennifer Rahner and she is a certified body sex facilitator who was trained by Betty Dodson herself in how to lead body sex workshops. Jennifer Rahner is a sexuality educator by profession. Teaches with vulnerability unafraid to expose herself completely. A professional writer for more than two decades, she is passionate about helping people experience more pleasure in their lives. Sexual and otherwise. You can find her at her website, jenniferrahner.com [

00:01:45] You can find her at geeky sex love on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. And if you are listening to the shortly after it is released, she has just announced a workshop happening in March of 2024. The anatomy of pleasure. In this episode, we talk about the body sex workshop and what it is like as an in-person participant. And how she's adapted it to online as well. We discussed the joys of the clitoris and how it affects orgasm. And so much more.

[00:02:19] Welcome Jennifer Rahner to What Excites Us!

[00:02:23] Jennifer Rahner: Thank you for having me when I'm so excited to be here.

[00:02:25] Gwyn Isaacs: This is super cool. So just for the people out there, we have connected through sex geek summer camp many, many years ago, and we've tried reconnecting and connecting and reconnecting. And this is the first time I think maybe in years that we've actually made this work. So yay.

[00:02:42] Jennifer Rahner: I'm doing the math. I think that was like. Six years ago? Oh

[00:02:48] Gwyn Isaacs: I don't know. [00:02:49] Jennifer Rahner: my goodness!

[00:02:50] Gwyn Isaacs: I don't. There are those three years that just sort of disappeared.

[00:02:54] Jennifer Rahner: They don't count. We'll just subtract them out. [00:02:57] Gwyn Isaacs: Yeah, exactly. So why don't we start with, yeah, just tell us who you are and what you do.

[00:03:04] Jennifer Rahner: Okay. Well, I'm Jenn or Jennifer Rahner, I mean, my story's kind of interesting because for 25 years I worked in IT. And I was just an IT geek. I was a technical writer and the job that I had then was, a lot of troubleshooting and a lot of writing documentation for stuff. So people would have problems. I'd figure them out and then I'd figure out how to explain it in language they could understand.

[00:03:30] So, in my mid forties, I realized that while I was pretty good at what I did, I was absolutely bored to death. You know, I'd wake up in the morning and be like, Oh, I don't want to go to work. So I went through this whole like, you know, coming up on the big five Oh, and what am I going to do with my life? And I realized that what I'd always, always, always wanted to do was be a sex educator. And when I started, I didn't know what that really meant. I just knew that, you know, when I was 15 years old, I listened to Dr. Ruth on the radio and thought, Oh my God, that's so cool. That's a thing that you can do for a living.

[00:04:10] And I decided at 15, I was going to do it, but you know, life gets in the way. They didn't have any degrees in talking to people about sex at the time, way back when. So there wasn't a clear path for me then, and I didn't know how to go about it, and then I got married, and then I fell into IT, and you know, life, and then here I am at 45 going, I'm gonna do this thing I've wanted to do for 30 years. [00:04:33] So, I knew I wanted to do it and the way that I figured out how I was going to do it was to just follow the things that excited me, which is so appropriate for your podcast.

[00:04:45] Gwyn Isaacs: Yay.

[00:04:46] Jennifer Rahner: So one of the first things I did was go to Sex Geek Summer Camp where I met you, and that was great to, give me the background in like the business of how to do things. So I left there going, okay, I know how to do the things. Now, what am I going to do?

So the very next thing I did was I found out that Betty Dodson was still doing body sex workshops in her New York City apartment. And I was over the moon when I found that out because she had been a longtime hero. I think I found her "Sex for One" book in the library when I was like 19 years old. And read it and felt so validated because nobody talked about masturbation back then and reading something that's like, yes, this is normal. This is natural. Absolutely. You should do this. It just it was amazing to me and opened up my world. So finding out that I could go actually be in the room with her and learn from her. I was ecstatic.

 So that was the next training that I went on. And that really is kind of set my path. I went to that training in June of 2018. And immediately knew that this was what I wanted to do, and I wanted to be able to take her work and bring it to more people. So I went through her certification program, and while I might have graduated sooner without the pandemic, it took me, I limped along a little bit towards the end, and I gained my certification in the summer of 2022.

So now I am a, certified body sex facilitator. And, during the pandemic, I got the opportunity to teach some virtual classes. Which was really interesting because nobody had done body sex virtually before. It had always been a very experiential, in the same room kind of experience. And a bunch of us facilitators were like, how do we do this now?

But it's interesting to see how it's gone over time, but I now do offer both virtual body sex classes, either for a group or one on one, as well as in person body sex experiences. So that is my main focus on orgasm and pleasure and loving your body. And I love teaching people about this and helping them get to a place where they really feel like they can embrace pleasure in their everyday life.

[00:07:06] Gwyn Isaacs: That is so needed in this world. I mean, we talked

[00:07:10] Jennifer Rahner: now.

[00:07:11] Gwyn Isaacs: Right?

[00:07:13] Yes.

[00:07:14] Jennifer Rahner: everything's falling down.

[00:07:17] Gwyn Isaacs: And we don't talk about pleasure and we don't talk about how important pleasure is and how healing pleasure is.

[00:07:24] Jennifer Rahner: Yeah,

[00:07:25] Gwyn Isaacs: How we can attain said pleasure with sexual activity is often just left off the table. Which is

[00:07:33] Jennifer Rahner: That's because we don't talk about sex in this culture in any sort of real way. I think maybe the whole like self care buzzword could be expanded. I mean, I did certainly self care for me.

Even though we're seeing changes in our culture, it is still really difficult for people to talk about sex in real ways. I mean, we'll talk about porn and the effects on society and we'll talk about how sex sells, but to talk about particularly your individual sexuality, your sex life with yourself. Um, there's still so much, uh, puritanical influence, that makes people afraid to talk about it, afraid to do it. Or if they do it, they don't really talk with anybody about it. So when somebody gets up the nerve to come and learn from me, it's a wonderful thing. Like it, but that first step is the hardest one

[00:08:25] Gwyn Isaacs: It's true, in fact, I frequently, when I get a new coaching client, start off with, good job or something along those lines of like taking this step because it's really brave to seek help in a situation or even just somebody to talk to, which I'm happy to be that for people as well.

[00:08:43] So tell us about what is the body sex work as a participant and then tell us about what it's like for you to facilitate it.

[00:08:52] Jennifer Rahner: Okay. So as a participant, and this is, this is why the hurdle is so great. This is also why, uh, the virtual body sex work is a really good entry point for someone who's curious about it, but doesn't quite have their nerve up to go do the in person work.

 So the traditional body sex experience is walking into a space. And the very first thing that you do is you take all your clothes off and everybody has their clothes off to start. You haven't talked to anybody yet. You haven't exchanged names, nothing. So like that is the most tremendous hurdle for most people to this work is going. I don't know if I could do this.

And the really funny thing was, I've always been very open. I've always been, a sexual explorer, right? And I've been to nudist places and I've been in group situations and still walking through that door. And taking my clothes off without really knowing what was coming next was very, very nerve wracking Wow. Okay. All right. Apparently I've got some stuff I'm still needing to work on because I thought this was going to be a whole lot easier than it was.

So that's where you start with body sex, but body sex is traditionally a group of about a dozen vulva owners, including facilitators sitting in a circle and we start out by talking about how we feel about our bodies and how we feel about our orgasms. And just kind of go around the room and express that. And for that part of it, I didn't even know what I was going to say until it got to me. And then once it did, it was one of those situations where I just opened my mouth and like, all this stuff came out.

[00:10:49] Gwyn Isaacs: Right.

[00:10:50] Jennifer Rahner: And I realized that even though I was going, I mean, I, I was going there to meet my hero and I was going there at a personal curiosity, but I didn't really realize that I was going there for my own healing too, until I was in the moment,

[00:11:05] Gwyn Isaacs: Isn't that so often the way? [

00:11:07] Jennifer Rahner: right? right? And I found that in teaching too, like that teaching is part of my healing journey too, but we'll get to that later. So the next part of body sex that happens is called genital show and tell. So this kind of kicks the whole nudity thing up a notch, right? One by one you sit in front of everybody and you spread your legs and you introduce your vulva to the group. And again, I didn't think I'd be nervous. Oh, my God. I was so nervous about that.

You know, so many of us with vulvas don't ever look at ourselves, right? Obviously, you and I, sex educators, we've done this stuff, but there are so many who don't because it's, you know, it's between our legs. It's not real easy to look at, the vagina monologues does this whole piece on how you have to get the light and the mirror and your, you know, you're contorting yourself so that you can actually get a view and by the time you've done all that, you're exhausted.

But, it's even a step further to be showing it to people. I mean, how many of us have sex with the lights off? Right? How many of us are a little freaked out when our lover wants to go down there and be right up close and personal. So it's, extremely nerve wracking to open up your legs and show.

But just that simple act of showing and talking about yourself and noticing things about yourself, because you have a mirror and a light. We do that work for you. It's all positioned there and you just have to sit down and, um, so seeing yourself in, you know, in that way, while other people are seeing you and the other people around you are so supportive.

Everybody's like, Oh, you're beautiful. Look at that. Look at this, which is, we don't get that kind of adoration for our genitals. And then the final part of genital show and tell is you name yourself, you name your vulva.

So after you've done this, you get back in the circle and you talk about it. And you talk about what the experience is like for you. Oh, and I missed something in there. In between the first chair and the genital show and tell, we do some sexual anatomy lessons, just because not only were some of us not taught very much about our vulvas. The clitoris wasn't really understood until like the eighties.

I was a teenager in the eighties. I didn't know anything about the clitoris and honest to God, even though I've been very curious about sexuality and read everything that I could get my hands on, it wasn't until I was in my 40s that I realized there was a difference between the clitoris, And the urethra, I thought that when I peed, it was coming out of the clitoris and I didn't know that there was another little spot in there under there.

So we always start out with education and I always tell people like, I'm going to give you a 101 education because I know not many of us got the education and I'm just going to start from scratch and you'll, pick up the info where, you're learning stopped.  So, talking, education, genital show and tell, more talking, and that's the end of day one. And that's about five to six hours. At the end of day one, you are now pretty much friends with everybody in that group, right? It happens so quickly when you share and you tell your stories and open your legs, you're the best of friends.

So the, you know, the times that I went and had that body sex experience, we would often go straight to a restaurant and drink wine and talk some more and get to know each other better, uh, before going back to our respective hotels and places we're sleeping. To go to sleep and come back the next day. So the next day, when we come back, we do a little debrief of how we felt overnight, what things came up for us after day 1. And then we get a little bit more into technique.

So, at that point is when, uh, we demonstrate the, uh, Betty's rock and roll method for masturbation. And, um, there was a study done on her method, and in it, 97 percent of women who previously were not able to achieve orgasm were able to do so using this technique.

[00:15:31] Gwyn Isaacs: Wow.

[00:15:32] Jennifer Rahner: And a lot of the, vulva owners who were drawn to this work, it's because they haven't been able to achieve orgasm or think they haven't been able to achieve orgasm. And that's part of the education process too is, saying like, well, if you experienced X, Y, and Z, that, that sounds like an orgasm to me, even though you're not thinking it is.

Um, I will give you like the three, no more than three minute version of what the rock and roll method is. It's internal stimulation and external stimulation. So you want to get clitoral stimulation as well as internal stimulation, particularly at the spot, that is known as the G spot. It's really the urethral sponge. it's an area on the top of the vaginal wall that's kind of spongy. You can feel the difference between it and the other tissue. And that's also where kind of the bulbs and the legs of the clitoris wrap around the vagina.

So when you're stimulating that urethral sponge, you're also stimulating kind of the parts of the clitoris that you can get to internally. So. You're doing external clitoral stimulation. You're doing internal clitoral stimulation. And that plus breathing and working your PC muscle is essentially the rock and roll method in a nutshell.

 I always say like, it sounds like a pretty simple thing, like, oh, duh. Okay. I need something inside and outside. But I think a lot of us, especially those who've been, raised female, right, were led to believe that we were supposed to get off with just internal stimulation.

[00:17:12] Gwyn Isaacs: Thanks, Freud.

[00:17:14] Jennifer Rahner: Yeah, exactly.

[00:17:17] Gwyn Isaacs: He got a lot of things right, but man, the things that he got wrong. And why are those the ones that stick

[00:17:24] Jennifer Rahner: I was going to say, you know, when I found out that Freud called a clitoral orgasm, um, what did he call it? Like, um, immature. Well, I will be immature for all of my life if that's the case. I will happily be immature

[00:17:38] Gwyn Isaacs: Hello

[00:17:41] Jennifer Rahner: and I love that we've discovered now that essentially all orgasms, internal and external, have to do with the clitoris. Right now that we know more about the clitoris and its structure and and its relation to the vaginal cavity. Um, from there is when we get to do erotic recess. And this is kind of what Betty is most known for. Like, most people talk about Betty's work. They're like, oh, the masturbation workshop. Oh, is that the 1 where y'all go beat off in a circle?

 Oh, is that the female circle jerk. Right. You know, fried green tomatoes made fun of it. There was some other movie I saw recently that kind of made fun of it too. It was like, you know, naming your, Oh, Put The O In Ohio. That was another one that had a whole thing about like naming your vulva and everything.

 So definitely Betty's work is like. been throughout popular culture and people don't quite understand it, but erotic recess is fantastic. It's a beautiful thing. It does not break out into an all woman orgy. Sorry guys, I know a lot of you hope that's what happens. It's not what happens. It's more like being supported by a sisterhood while you're learning new ways to experience pleasure yourself.

And I've talked about several others with this, both people I've taken the workshop with and people who've taken my workshop. When you're in the moment doing this work, you kind of get this like primal remembrance that it feels like this is what we used to do before civilized culture. You know, when we were tribal and, and, and moved together across the land in groups, right? That the woman folk would share information with each other. And that was, you know, like, the crux of learning how to be a woman in that time.

That's what body sex feels like. It feels like, kind of getting back to those roots and sharing information that's our birthright. Right? that we all should have. And it's really difficult to describe the kind of feeling of, and I keep coming back to the word sisterhood because that's what it feels like. It feels like we're all related at the base level and we're all just there helping and supporting each other.

So, what actually happens in erotic recess is we all lay back on our mats. Feet to the center of the circle and it's time for us to explore our own bodies and masturbation and orgasm. Um, and at the workshops you're provided with the tools. You get a vibrator and you get Betty's barbell, which she designed specifically for internal stimulation.

And the thing that's different about her internal, toy versus other dildos is she kind of, she designed it so that it's, got a ball on either end. But when you insert it into the vagina and you work your PC muscle, it kind of stays put, it doesn't fall out, right? There's like something to grip onto and it's weighted perfectly so that it's not going to slide out. Which is nice because we only have two hands. And there's a lot of other places we like to touch on our body. And of course, one has to hold the vibrator on the clit too.

 So, we do urge, uh, you know, participants are urged to try the rock and roll method if they haven't done something like that before. But really that time is just all about finding your own pleasure and I've seen it last anywhere from about an hour to an hour and a half up to like three hours where people are just enjoying the time playing with themselves. Feeling the energy in the room of all of these wonderful people experiencing pleasure. Um, laying back kind of in your own little world, but hearing those sounds of pleasure and, you know, you can kind of like turn to one side or the or the next and check out your neighbor.

It's not a very, you know, it's, it's weird to say this. I'm talking about a bunch of women in a room masturbating. It's not. It's not incredibly like sexual experience, but it's a very sensual experience. Like, you feel all of your senses are engaged in the moment, and it's, it, it's a wonderful space. It's a wonderful, you know, I, every time I get talking about them again, I'm like, God, it's been a while. I really need to, I really need a circle. I really need a circle because it's just so healing. But let me finish the explanation of what body sex is.

So the final thing that we all do after we debrief. From erotic, erotic recess, and I'll come back to earth is we do a group massage and usually that's just, if we have a dozen people, then it's a group of 6 and a group of 6 and everybody in the group takes turns receiving non sexual platonic touch from the other group members. And it's entirely up to you where you want to be touched and where you don't want to be touched. But it's a really nice way to close that circle and that time together.

And, you know, show our care for each other and closeness. One of the most powerful aspects for me of the body sex experience is the absolutely lifelong close friendships that I've made. And I have friends all over the world that I've been in circles with. I know I could reach out to any of them if I had a question or a thought or, you know, it's almost like you carry that support that you get in erotic recess with you into your life.

[00:23:28] Gwyn Isaacs: That sounds lovely. You look wistful.

[00:23:32] Jennifer Rahner: It's a wonderful, wonderful. I mean, and that's why immediately I was like, ha, this is it. This is the work. This is what I wanna do. And I know initially for me, it was when I, when I had that thought, that is what I wanted to do. I was thinking of me and I was thinking of what I needed when I was younger and how wonderful it would have been if I had found this in my twenties, how much time it would have saved me, right? Like, a lot of the lessons that I learned in body sex, I had learned in different ways over the years, but just this one intense weekend of embracing my body and who I am sexually and feeling accepted for that, and not just accepted, but celebrated. For that. Really, you know, the experience absolutely changed my life, and I knew that I wanted to help change other people's lives in that way.

[00:24:25] Gwyn Isaacs: yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:24:28] Jennifer Rahner: Yeah.

[00:24:30] Gwyn Isaacs: I could easily, that makes so much sense to me. On a visceral level, on an intellectual level, on an emotional level. Like, yeah, of course. How would you not want to continue sharing this with other people? It's, it's almost like proselytizing, right? Like, like, I've found Jesus, except Jesus is my vulva.

[00:24:51] Jennifer Rahner: It's. Well, so one of the things that that helped me get through those three years that we're not talking about

[00:25:00] Gwyn Isaacs: right.

[00:25:00] Jennifer Rahner: early on in that Carlin Ross, who is Betty's business partner and is now carrying on Betty's work, reached out to a bunch of us and asked if we wanted to just like get together and chat because you know, the world was crazy. We didn't know what the fuck was going on. You know, she was like, let's just talk. And so a bunch of us got on a zoom one day and just talked about where we were, what it was like near us, what was going on and all of that. And at the end of that conversation, somebody said, you know what, we should do erotic recess. And we're like, Oh, that's a good idea. These are all women who had been through the larger workshop before. So we're like, let's do that. So we scheduled another call and said, next time we're going to do erotic recess together.

[00:25:47] Gwyn Isaacs: Oh, that's so cool.

[00:25:49] Jennifer Rahner: And that lasted throughout the pandemic. So every Sunday. We would get together on zoom, and we would have an erotic recess. Um, it actually is still going on today. We don't do it every week anymore, but about once a month, we get together for erotic recess and, everybody who's ever been involved in body sex is invited to join.

The best part about that, though, was when Betty did pass away in October of 2020, actually, she passed away on Halloween, you know, she had such a sense of humor. I guarantee she kind of chose that. She's like, Oh, yep. Today'd be a good day. Um, so. She passed away on, on October 31st and we had a, an erotic recess scheduled for the next day. And we had, we had planned since it was Halloween that we were going to dress up for erotic recess and do something fun.

[00:26:40] And I remember that I got the news in the morning before we had erotic recess. And I was so sad and crying and everything. And I was like, you know what? I am still going to put on my goddamn costume because Betty would like that. And my costume was a unicorn horn. And a unicorn butt plug with a rainbow tail.

[00:27:02] Gwyn Isaacs: Oh, I love it. That's so good.

[00:27:06] Jennifer Rahner: And I popped a bottle of champagne cause Betty loved champagne. And I drank champagne in my unicorn sex outfit

[00:27:14] Gwyn Isaacs: That's so

[00:27:15] Jennifer Rahner: with my sisters from around the world. And we laughed and we told stories and we cried and we masturbated. And it was incredibly wonderful because we were all in such grief. And I think it helped support everybody in the group who was able to be there.

[00:27:33] Gwyn Isaacs: What a perfect send off. That's just delightful.

[00:27:38] Gwyn: you know, frequently when I tell people what I do for a living, they ask for a hot sex tip. So what I say, not really knowing them or any of their situations is that most sexual issues can be helped with more and better conversation, or lube or both. Now, conversation is really on you, although I can help you if you'd like me to. I do that as a coach. 

But when it comes to lube, there are two brands that I always reach for first. Uberlube is my go-to silicone lube. It's pure. It's not full of any unnecessary additives that make it smell, taste, or feel, unlike you me. It comes in a beautiful glass bottle that I'm happy to have on my nightstand, and it's great in most situations.

However, if you prefer a water-based lube or have some other intimate needs, I recommend Good, Clean Love. They have a variety of great products to help everything in the bedroom goes smoothly, huh.  They've got some vaginal care kits, some cleaning solutions, oils and candles. It's really great. Now you can find an affiliate link for these at the podcast's website whatexcitesus.com And to be clear, you do help me out when you buy through these links, but I specifically reached out to these companies because I truly love their products and I believe in what they're doing.

So help yourself. Help me help these lovely companies and get better sex with better lube. Go visit the links for UberLube and good Clean Love at whatexcitesus.com

[00:29:27] Gwyn Isaacs: So the one piece that it sounds like would be difficult to do over Zoom is massaging. Does that part just get left out?

[00:29:35] Jennifer Rahner: No, I actually came up with a way to do that. So, it was interesting trying to take that work and translate it to zoom. And for one, you know, we all know what zoom fatigue is now. I didn't want to spend a whole weekend on zoom and I didn't think others wanted to spend a whole weekend on zoom.

It's just really difficult to do. So instead of doing it over the course of one weekend, I did it over the course of about six weeks, maybe eight weeks. It was somewhere in that six to eight week range that we just met once a week and, you know, kind of tackled each piece. Like, so the first one was, you know, meeting was introductions and then the next one was um, genital anatomy.

And then for genital show and tell you know, understanding that people are very, uh, nervous about technology and things being shared on the Internet. I wanted to give people the option of how to do that. So, basically, what I said is if you're up for showing me your genitals on a zoom meeting, great.

Like, we can do more of a traditional genital show and tell, but if you're a little nervous about it, and you just want to do it 1 on 1 with me, fine. We can schedule time. I will sit one on one with you. We'll go through genital show and tell as we would in a group. And, we'll do all the same things, but we'll just do it one on one. So it's just me and you, we won't record it or anything like that. So, uh, a few people took me up on that and did it one on one. And then when we came to the time that we were meeting for it and the others who were like, yep, I'm going to do it.

The ones that were good to do it started to do the, you know, just position the zoom. So it was pointed at their, at their genitals. And, you know, I kind of gave them the tour of themselves and, and did all of the things. And what was interesting is the ones that did it one on one with me after seeing other people do it in the wider group, wanted to join in too.

So we ultimately had just about everybody do the genital show and tell live. There was one participant who didn't schedule the time ahead with me and didn't join in. And I reached out to her after that meeting and asked her, like, um, you know, is there something you're concerned about? Can we talk about it?

And she said, she was funny. She said, honestly, I just don't see the point. And I said, okay, that's, yeah, that's fine. It's fine. I can understand that, but, this is also one of my oldest friends too. So I could, I could be really real with her. And I was like, but, um, you know, like you and I have known each other since high school and we've been naked in the same room a dozen times.

Like, why don't you just do it for me, do it with me. If you still think it's dumb, we can stop. We can, you know, chat about other things, whatever. She's like, all right, fine. Cause it's you and we did it. And at the end she goes, holy shit. I didn't know. I didn't understand how powerful that was going to be.

So, yeah. that turned out really well, ultimately. Um, I did the rock and roll technique demonstration. And then, with erotic recess again, just because of people's concerns, I told them, like I want everybody's video on just so all of us are rest assured that you don't have, like, 6 people gathered around the screen watching. But if you're not comfortable, you can just like tilt your video anywhere you want to in the room. It doesn't have to be on you. It could be your dog or your window or the TV. I don't care where it's pointing as long as we can all, you know, see and feel confident that nobody else is watching us.

So that's what we did. And some people chose to have the camera on their face. Some people chose to have it pointing away. Um, some people chose to keep their sound on. Others didn't. Although I did have one woman say that she had started off with her sound off, but then when she heard other people, she thought that was so cool that she turned her sound on so that she could participate in that too.

So that all went really well too, and I was really racking my brain about how am I going to do this closing thing, right? That kind of brings us all together and, you know, kind of solidifies the bond that we've forged during this time. And what I came up with was something I called love bombing.

So, we went around, and in turn, every person took a turn being the one bombed, and all the rest of the participants did the bombing. And it was just tell this other person what their presence in the circle meant to you. And it was so incredible because, you know, there's a lot of talking and sharing stories and one thing that became really clear in that whole exercise was how much we learn from other people's stories and how validating it is to us.

Because I think so often we think we're the only one, right? We think we're the only one who had this experience or felt this way or struggled with this thing. And it seems like in every story in the circle, there's something that speaks to everybody else in the circle, right? And for one person, it might be like, you know, someone talks about struggling with childbirth and they're like, Oh, yeah, that was my experience. And the same person is talking about like how sex was after childbirth. Oh my God that was my. So it may not be the same one thing, but you can usually learn something or feel kinship with something that every other person in the. room talks about. And, at the end of that, I mean, it was a great way to massage. It was just massaging with words and massaging our egos and our self esteem, you know, right?

[00:35:06] Gwyn Isaacs: sounds so powerful that you were able to bring what seems like a really powerful workshop. To a space where people can still enjoy that, but then also go make dinner or whatever it is that they, that they need to do, but still be able to embody to have that, that sense of sexuality, that sense of camaraderie and really come together and feel the energy rising through a computer screen is, um, pretty amazing.

[00:35:37] Jennifer Rahner: Yeah. And so like, what, we facilitators have found, because a lot of us have done different, versions of this. Now, a lot of us and I'm leaning on this too is, maybe calling that like intro to body sex.  Even though you're doing a lot of the same things, you're doing it in your own space, right?

So you're in your own home, you pick where you're comfortable, you, you know, you, you can lay on your bed, you can sit in your favorite chair, whatever you can control the environment. It's a way to do the body sex work without having to leap that big hurdle of getting naked. Because we didn't require anybody to be naked.

Um, I told people they could be if they wanted to as long as everybody else in the group consented to see them naked. I didn't care if we did or not. But doing it in that way really kind of helps people like, Hey, you can try it out. Like you can try this whole thing out. And if at any point you're just super uncomfortable, like, shut your laptop,

[00:36:36] Gwyn Isaacs: Right.

[00:36:37] Jennifer Rahner: like, you haven't traveled to New York City and gotten a hotel room and feel obligated to stay if something makes you uncomfortable. So it's, a really great entry point for people who've been curious about body sex. But don't feel brave enough yet to step into the room with other people to do it.

[00:36:57] Gwyn Isaacs: Brilliant. And yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I can totally see how that would be an intro. And then, if somebody wanted to continue on and do an in person one, there are facilitators all over the place is

[00:37:08] Jennifer Rahner: Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, Bodysex. com is your best resource for finding body sex near you. there's an events listing page where we all list whatever upcoming events. that we have. All of the facilitators all around the world are listed there. So you know, if you see that there's a facilitator near you and you don't see any of their events, you can reach out to them and say, Hey, you know, put me on your mailing list or when's your next body sex.

 And, um, I think we're up to about 24 facilitators and that's worldwide. So there aren't very many of us. But we do try and get around and spread our legs and spread the joy, right.

[00:37:55] Gwyn Isaacs: I love it. Before we started officially talking, mentioned that you were figuring out ways to bring this to more than just vulva That's very exciting.

[00:38:06] Jennifer Rahner: It's very exciting. So, you know, it's, something I've been thinking about for a long time and I, I, think I am ready to take the leap into doing this. I have a few people in my life that I think I can reach out to to say, Hey, can you beta test with this with me? Like, let's just have a little small group and let's see how this works.

Um, I do want to create an all genital, all gender body sex, partially because I mean, if you think about it, we've, I'm going to speak in the binary here because that's, you know, 50 years ago, 40, 50 years ago when I was in school, this was, you know, part of my acculturation, right? Uh, in school, I remember in fifth grade, they took the girls to the auditorium and showed us the like Tampax film about menstruation and gave us goodie bags with ginormous maxi pads in them, right?

And they took the boys to another room. I still don't know what they talked to the boys about, but, but they split us up, right? They're like, okay, you have these parts, you go there, you have these parts, you go there and we're going to talk to you about something that eventually you're going to kind of be expected to do together, but we're going to talk to you about it separately. And looking back, like, one of the ways that we could, like, help people have better sex is to normalize conversations between all genders about sexuality, because all people have sex. Or maybe, you know, unless you're asexual, but even asexuals have sex. Sex is a potential for every human on this planet. We should just talk about it and give information.

It's crazy to me that people think education is going, education, time and time again, has proven to reduce unwanted pregnancies, to reduce STI transmission, to reduce sexual assault and violence. Right? Education is the key and we still haven't gotten that right. So yeah, that's, I am huge on educating and I'm huge on not segregating education. So I want to be able to do this.

Not to mention, our genital structures. We all come from the same origins, and we all essentially have the same parts configured slightly differently. But, you know, the glands of the penis and the tip of the clitoris. Essentially the same thing, you know, you're, going to treat those things in pretty much the same ways. The shaft of the penis and the internal clitoris, right? Erectile tissue fills with blood, gets an erection. takes slightly longer when it's buried inside you. But It still happens, right?

All of these things are so similar that I absolutely think that we could do a body sex for all genitals. and I know that I'm just talking about penis and vulva and there are all of the shades in between, whether it's intersex or, Uh, trans using hormones or, trans after surgery. There are so many configurations of genitals, but they do all kind of essentially have the same parts and the same parts that are sensitive and, and able to be stimulated. And, orgasm and ejaculation, right? Like we all have the ability to do these things. So I think we can teach on, I think one teaching on the anatomy in that way, in that broad way. Not only helps us with ourselves, but helps us with our sexual partners, right? Whoever they may be.

I had did one little test run on having an erotic recess that was open to all genders. There was only one person who identified as a man. All of the rest identified as women. We all applauded him for his bravery coming into this space.  Um, but everybody enjoyed it. Nobody felt odd. Like, you know, we talked about it in the beginning, like, is everybody comfortable if anybody feels uncomfortable, please, you know, feel free to leave whenever you feel discomfort. You know, no questions asked. I'm not going to chase after you. Whatever.

Everybody stayed till the end. We had this great group conversation at the end about how freeing that was and how there were at least a couple of people who said, you know, I've never done this for a lover and now I feel like I can, with a lover or next to a lover. 

Um, Being in charge of our own pleasure in the room with other people. Yeah, I don't know if I can describe that feeling. It's, uh, Mmm with having the penis owner in the room with all of the vulva owners There was a different energy than I experienced on the the erotic recesses with all vulva owners and it was, Wasn't bad, right? It was different not bad um It, it, there was, I can't find the word. It was a little more raw, the energy. It was just, um, a little heightened. Maybe I, there's not a word. There's not a word. Uh,

[00:43:37] Gwyn Isaacs: That it probably is in German, right?

[00:43:39] Jennifer Rahner: is. Germans have words for all the sex things.

[00:43:42] Gwyn Isaacs: Yeah.

[00:43:46] Jennifer Rahner: grandmother was, no, my grandmother probably wouldn't have known them either. Poor woman. Anyway, it was. Amazing. And I want more of that energy. Of, you know, the freedom of expression within a mixed group. I think that we could all learn so much from each other in the sharing portions. Right. And if you think about having a group of CIS and various trans identities. How much we could learn from each other in terms of experiences and, you know, differences in how we were socialized as kids and differences in how we experience the world now. I think it would be fantastic.

[00:44:36] I think I'm going to start off by doing a virtual class. And the virtual class is just going to be genital massage. without the aim of orgasm. So it'll be more of a sensate focus type class. And for people who aren't familiar with sensate focus, sensate focus is a way to kind of get back into your body without worrying about the end goal. Cause I know for vulva owners sometimes, well actually no, vulva owners, penis owners alike, you get into your head and your genitals don't work right, right?

So taking away that goal of orgasm and just experiencing sensation, is a great exercise for getting back in touch with your sexual body. So I think that's the first thing that I'm going to, test run and do it as part of a guided genital massage, and do that as about a one, one hour, 90 minute class and see how that goes over. keep an eye out on bodysex. com and on jenniferrahner.com for body sex for all bodies, because that is coming this year.

[00:45:50] Gwyn Isaacs: I think that's super, super, super exciting. And I can see it going in, a few different ways. Um a fully mixed group. And then I imagine that some trans folks would probably appreciate a just trans. folks group. Um, and then, and then, yeah, no. Oh, so many options. and the thing is, that we have this myth that men know everything and, are so in touch with their bodies and so in touch with sex or whatever, and it's such bullshit and they have so much shame and body issues

[00:46:22] Jennifer Rahner: Absolutely.

[00:46:22] Gwyn Isaacs: like all the same things that women are. You know, known to have, but we just don't acknowledge that they're put into the similar boxes and have so many struggles. And then on top of that, they have this performance anxiety because they're supposed to be,

[00:46:39] Jennifer Rahner: Because they're supposed to be, because the tool is supposed to be ready, right?

[00:46:45] Gwyn Isaacs: And that's just not realistic. And then,

[00:46:48] Jennifer Rahner: What I love, have you, have you seen the, uh, the, the Soft Penis Week stuff?

[00:46:52] Gwyn Isaacs: yes, yeah.

[00:46:53] Jennifer Rahner: love that. I love playing with soft penises. They're fun.

[00:46:57] Gwyn Isaacs: are super fun and you can do a lot more with them when they're soft, um, then you can, I mean, you know, not that not enjoying them when, I mean, I absolutely enjoy them when they're hard, but, but, but the things that you can do with them when

[00:47:14] Jennifer Rahner: But I can always deep throat a soft one.

[00:47:17] Gwyn Isaacs: boom, bada, bang, baby. There you go. That's so good. okay. So I want to wrap up is there anything else that you want to talk about that you want to be sure that gets out there

[00:47:31] Jennifer Rahner: Let me think. Well, for one, I started out my career living in Augusta, Georgia. I now live in Springfield, Massachusetts. So, it may be that people in this area that I just moved to don't really know who I am. So please, if you're in New England, New York, reach out to me, get in touch. I would love to get to know you.

I'm looking for community with other sex geeks like me. I'm looking for places to teach. I'm looking for people to teach with. I'm looking for all kinds of things. So whether you want to get in touch with me as a coach or as a teacher, or you just want to say, Hey, you're a cool person. I'd like to know you.

I am open to all of that because I've been here less than a year and I'm trying to find my people in this area. And I'm also like really hot to find out about other events and conferences and stuff like that all around.

If you want to know what is coming up, because I am set to start pumping out some stuff and do some classes, absolutely visit jenniferrahner.com and give me your email address. For an email newsletter, I swear to you, I will not spam you. And honest to God, I forget to write emails half the time. So you might get like six to 12 from me in the course of a year. It's not going to be one of these like three times a day things, right? No spam, guarantee it.

[00:48:58] Gwyn Isaacs: Okay. So I like to wrap up my podcast by asking one final question, which is Jennifer Rahner, what excites you? [00:49:08] Jennifer Rahner: Ooh, well, today I'm excited about my date tonight. So, yeah, so I am excited that I am a polyamorous person and I have a date tonight with a potential new person that  That's exciting. Yay. Yes. Yay.

[00:49:28] Gwyn Isaacs: First in person visit like together.

[00:49:31] Jennifer Rahner: No, this is our sixth date, which, which, which is kind of a milestone because since I moved here, I've had a, I've had a lot of first dates, I've had a few second dates, but this is the first one who's gone beyond that.

[00:49:46] Gwyn Isaacs: that's exciting.

[00:49:47] Jennifer Rahner: Very exciting.

[00:49:48] Gwyn Isaacs: So are you ready to sign up for a body sex workshop? You can do that with jennifer@jenniferrahner.com or go to bodysex.com and find people in your area. Speaking of workshops. And don't forget that Jen has one happening too go find her at jenniferrahner.com. That's J E N N I F E R R A H N E R. Dot com.

But speaking of workshops, I'm building a few of my own to release soon. And if you have thoughts about what you may be interested in, Please let me know. Which you can do now in a super easy way, even easier than going to what excites us.com. What excites us now has a Facebook group. Of course, I would love to have you as a patron on Patrion, and you can learn all about that and more at whatexcitesus.com. But. Come find us on Facebook by searching what excites us. And joining the group. We'd love to have you.

What excites us is produced, edited and hosted by me, Gwyn Isaacs. Our podcast host is tickle.life. All the music is used under the creative commons attribution license. The opening song is The Vendetta by Stephen Kartenberg, and this is Quando by Julius H. Don't forget to love yourself. I love you. So you should too.