What Excites Us!

Ep 60 - Aging and the Power of Pleasure with CJ

Transcript:

Episode 60 - Aging and the Power of Pleasure with CJ

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[00:00:00] Gwyn: This podcast is about sex and sexuality, so please only listen if you are an adult without kids or other ears around that cannot, or do not consent to sensitive language and content. Thanks.

Welcome to What Excites Us. My name is Gwyn Isaacs. I am a sex coach who has been helping people feel good with their desires, expressions, and relationships since 2017. Today I am thrilled to be joined by CJ from no shame with CJ.

She is an alternative pleasure coach and mentor, who is passionate about helping women liberate their sexual expression. And cultivate new pleasure pallets. She gets off on debunking the myths around female aging, desire and desirability as well as talking about the taboo. She loves welcoming mid-life plus women into alternative pleasures and lifestyles so that they can experience erotic evolution and neuro expansion as they age.

In this episode, we will explore how societal norms have shaped our views on aging, particularly for women. And how breaking free from those constraints can open up a world of erotic evolution and brain growth. CJ shares her inspiring transformation from a shy individual, into someone who actively pursues pleasure, non-monogamy, and kink. And she's here to offer her valuable insights on navigating hormonal changes and advocating for yourself in medical settings and more. Whether it's debunking myths around female aging or embracing alternative pleasures, CJ's wisdom will guide you towards a healthier, more fulfilling life. And face it. We're all aging. So this episode is useful for all of us.

Something else that is useful for all of us is when you take a few minutes from your busy, busy day to leave a review or rating for What Excites Us. I'm sure you know, that the almighty algorithm decides who to share the podcast with, and maybe you even know that more positive reviews the more often it will share the show. But did you also know that every person has experienced some shame or other type of discomfort around their sex life? And that the aim of the show is to share those experiences and chat with helping people so that everyone will know they're not alone?

So just think about the good that can do for a second by writing a simple one-line review or more. Or even just give us a good rating in the app that you're using right now, you could potentially help someone that you care about, feel better in and about themselves. Oh, and please be sure that you were subscribed, but I'm sure you are because you want to listen to all the episodes of these various thoughts. Right. Thank you so much.

One last thing before we get into it, this conversation with CJ was so fun, but I had to cut a bunch of it for time. You can listen to her tell us all about how she got into kink and how her life with her husband slash dominant is now in the Patreon, which you can find easily by going to what excites us.com Hi, CJ. I'm so glad to have you. This is CJ from No Shame with CJ, who I got the opportunity to meet this summer. And I am so thrilled to have you on What Excites Us.

[00:03:44] CJ: Thank you so much, Gwyn I'm so happy to be here.

[00:03:48] Gwyn: I love that we are in sort of similar realms, although slightly different as aging ladies ourselves, wanting to share the message of how great that can be instead of how sad that can be. Which is what I grew up with Oh, nothing happens after middle age, there's no point. Is that where you're coming from?

[00:04:14] CJ: Oh for sure I'm a Gen Xer you know, Gen Xers, the younger boomers, you know, I think we've all experienced like at a certain point as a woman, once you've done your duty reproducing. If you've done that, then it's like, Oh, forgotten. Or it's expectations around grandparenting or things like that. Right. And witnessing both my parents age and currently declining rapidly, I am making a conscious choice that that is not what I want for the end of my life. So I'm taking some action now to make sure that that doesn't happen.

[00:05:02] Gwyn: That's so great. That's inspiring. And you're helping other people make this action, which is also

[00:05:08] CJ: hope so.

[00:05:09] Gwyn: really helpful. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So why don't we back up a little bit and tell us who you were before and who you are now?

[00:05:20] CJ: Wow. Do we have all day?

[00:05:22] Gwyn: Yeah. Right. Just a light breezy, you know,

[00:05:26] CJ: let's put it this way. My life has been about movement. It's been about change. And I was just telling you how as a younger person, I was very quiet and shy and wanted to fade into the background and not be noticed. And I wouldn't say that I'm exactly the opposite of that, but I'm testing myself and pushing myself. To overcome that discomfort and to have a voice. And to make it known what I like, what I want out of life, the expectations that I have. And just making my presence be known, because it is so easy to fade into the background. And I'm here to be like, don't do that. Like, now is our time, actually.

So, in my 20s, and even a little bit earlier, I was a serial monogamist. I was the kind of person that was in long term relationships from a few years to several years. And I would go from relationship to relationship. You know, the benefits of being younger and not really having to date and then just landing in another relationship, right?

But they were never like, the long term relationship in terms of a marriage or anything, which I wasn't really looking for. So that was fine. And then in my thirties, I moved to LA and began my professional life and then I met someone who became my husband super quickly. Within a year, we were married and then a year later, we had our first child.

Love my kids ended up having two with this person and within 10 years divorced. Because, well, hello, we don't really actually know each other that well. And then when you have kids, you know, they push all the buttons and they reveal things that you didn't know about yourself and the other person. Right?

So. My thirties was largely about that marriage and raising young kids. And once we both started to like the dust settle thing, it was like, wait a second, this is not working out the way that we wanted. And for me, the main thing was an absence of intimacy.

We had privilege. We were able to travel. We did a lot of fun things. We had a lot of fun experiences and we were not connected in any way. So, that was very painful for me and I was very motivated to change that. But it was just one of those things where we had let it go for too long.

And then I had this brand new experience in my forties, where I was just like desirous, like I was like a horny teenager. I just couldn't wait to get out. And start dating, even though I was absolutely terrified as a woman in her forties, who had not really ever had to date. Which is so ridiculous to say that, but that's, I realized I never had to try. And now I have to try. I am older. I have a mom bod. I don't even know this body anymore. I'm not connected with it myself.

At one stage, it just had to be like, rip the band aid off and actually have sex. And once I did that, it was just like, taking the cork out. It's like, okay, now I'm like, I'm good. Like, I know everything still works. What's next? So, It was very intentional for me as something that I wanted because I wasn't getting it in my marriage and that was one of the main reasons why it ended and I'm like, I need this in my life. Pleasure is central to who I am as a human, I'm not living without it ever again.

So that kind of started my journey for where I am today. Lots of good experiences, not so good experiences, dating, finding my footing and learning that, Oh my God, I'm kinky, like that is what I learned in my forties. And also I learned about the whole world of non monogamy. Started listening to podcasts. I'm also bisexual. I had my first same gender experience in my forties and it was just sort of like, wait a second. I have all these things that I never experienced or explored before that are things that I like that I'm into. How do I keep that going?

So that's what I've done. I'm in my late fifties now, and I'm still learning things about myself and I'm still very pleasure centric. And now I'm feeling, as I said, with my parents aging, this is beneficial to me and my aging process. It's how I'm going to feel better. It's how I'm going to stay young in my mind, pushing my boundaries, pushing my ways of thinking. Outside of the constructs of what's been forced on me, I feel is benefiting me as I age.

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[00:11:11] Gwyn: How did you discover that you were kinky?

[00:11:14] CJ: It was actually the first person that I was intimate with after my separation. And, there was like a little hint of dominance from him that I hadn't experienced with anyone else. And I was like, wait a second, what is this? And I'm like, what was that? Like, let's talk about that. And I just got really curious and asked for a little bit more. And it opened the door. I wouldn't say that this person was particularly kinky, but It just gave me a little like peek into a room that I hadn't been in before and I was like, Oh, wait a second. I think I like this.

So, I got curious about it. Then I started dating someone else and I was kind of like, had an idea of, you know, looking for it in that space. And then this person had a very narrow mindset about how women should behave. And I remember him telling me that men like it when you act like you don't want it. I was just like, first of all. Let's talk about you and not all men. And secondly, I've never heard that before and good for you, but that's not for me. So that ended very quickly. So that controlling and that expectation was a turnoff for me.

Lots of flavors of dominant people out in the world. And I knew I wasn't up for all of it. But also I went through the process of trying a lot of different flavors and saying like, Oh, that's not the one. That's not the one. That's not the one. So it's one of those things, just like anything. Like, what is your definition of that? What flavor do you like? What are you looking for? And part of that was me experimenting.

[00:13:20] Gwyn: Did you also do research? Did you look into things? Were you just playing the field? Were you trying that experimentation with activities as well as people?

[00:13:33] CJ: Yes. Once I started learning a little bit more and got my footing with dating. I discovered the sites, you know, fetlife and things like that and started looking into it and started reading the books and joining groups and going to workshops and classes. So then I was like, okay. And the podcasts were amazing. Podcasts really opened my eyes to a lot of stuff. And it led me in the direction of like, Oh, there's this thing going on. I mean, I live in a huge urban place, so I have a lot of access to in person classes and things like that. So yes, I did begin that journey and that's really what got me to where I am today.

[00:14:17] Gwyn: That's wonderful and I'm always curious how people got to where, where they are because there's so many different routes to take us to similar places and we all have really fascinating stories. Was your route through ethical non monogamy sort of similar in that, how did you even discover that that existed

[00:14:37] CJ: I think I was actually listening to Sex Nerd Sandra, do you remember her?

[00:14:43] Gwyn: Of course.

[00:14:45] CJ: I think I was listening to her podcast and I was listening to an episode about DS relationship and poly and I was like, oh. what is this? And I had a partner at that time, and we were exploring different sexual things. He had shared something with me that he had never shared with anyone else. You know, a secret desire that he had lived with since he was a teenager, something that really informed a lot of his sexuality, almost to a fetish. And instead of being like, ugh. I went, tell me more.

And that was another like, Oh, well now you're in the room and then you're going to open another door into another room kind of thing, right? It's like, what is this all about? I've never heard of this. Like, let's explore that. And really like, it just brought so much juice into our sexuality. And then that's when I was like, Oh, I want to explore DS. I want to explore you being dominant with me. And so we were starting on that path together. And I started listening to these podcasts and I was like, so there are people that do this, like that's their relationship structure. And they also see other people and they do things with other people and they play with other people. I'm like, what do you think about that? And it was just like an ongoing conversation​

[00:16:28] Gwyn: real quick. A D/s style of relationship is one where consenting adults decide to live their lives, where one person is the dominant and the other person is submissive. And this can take. Any number of different forms ranging from just in the bedroom to living 24 7. And everything in between.

[00:16:51] CJ: So we were starting to embark on figuring out what this might look like for us and unbeknownst to me, he was kind of a little bit further along down the river that I was without my knowledge. And once I learned that that ended. But, for me, it was like, okay, I've started to get a flavor of this and what I knew at that time, the D. S. is really what I craved. Although I think it would be a lot harder for me to give up the non monogamy aspect. D. S. is where I wanted my future relationship to be centered.

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[00:17:34] Gwyn: How about jealousy? How does that show up for you?

[00:17:39] CJ: This is one of my favorite topics because I love talking with jealousy. but I know for a lot of people it's deep, it is tough. But it's one of those things that I'm like, I think we need to queer it up. And what I mean by that is queering something is like just doing it differently. Right. It means turning it on its head or like doing something unexpected or unconventional. That's what queering it up means to me. So I queer my life up. I queer up my relationship style by doing non monogamy. I queer up my sexy time by doing kinky shit and jealousy is one of those things like where does this come from?

It comes from the fucking patriarchy. It comes from this sense of ownership over other people and the fear that someone or something will take them away. That it's us bumping up against the fact that we actually have no fucking control. We have no control over someone else. And the sooner that you just accept that shit, the better off you're going to be.

Because the only thing you can do in that realm is accept it, but also change your behavior and change your mindset about it. Like we need to reframe the sense of jealousy. So if I'm like constantly trying to hold on to something in a tight way, it doesn't make it comfortable for that person, right. To feel constricted. And if you do feel like, Oh, my love is based on the fact that they want to hold on to me so tightly, maybe that's not the healthiest way of looking at it.

I knew that my husband, one of his non negotiables, as I said, was I will never be monogamous again. His other two were our stuff has to be kinky, like it has to be DS. And then the third thing was, you have to let me drive my motorcycle because his previous relationship, he wasn't allowed. That was the hardest thing. the other stuff I was like, yeah, me too.

So. I knew going in that that's who this person is, and I really thought about it and said, he's lived kind of constricted for longer than I have in a very difficult relationship. And here is this opportunity to live outside of that. And it's so important to him that he had to blow some things up along the way. A lot of us have done that, right? The end of my marriage was amicable, but it, in some ways, it's still blowing up your life, right?

So. I want to see this person flourish. I want this person to really live authentically in the way that feels good to them. And that was a huge part and still is for him. He is a very tactile, touchy person who likes to have a lot of experiences. And that's why I adore him because he brings so much fun and like, just energy in that space. So I don't want to like, hoard it to myself.

But initially here I am in the States. He's in Australia. And He was dating multiple people and I would, just get really nervous when they were around his age and I knew that they were submissive or wanted to experience yes. And I would just be like, Oh my God, like he's going to find someone who's more geographically desirable because this is a huge barrier for us.

We don't know when, when, and if we're ever even going to be able to get together. I'm not moving there. I have kids. Like I'm not moving there. So I would get like, all the anxiety and all the nervousness around that. And it was almost like a switch. And I'm not saying it's just like, Oh, I just turned it off. And I never feel it again, but it did take me being like, this is fucked up. I'm making myself miserable.

I don't want to bring that energy to him when he comes back to me and we have a conversation. I don't want it to be like, what did you do? Like, what did you do to her? And how was it? What does she look like? And that, I want to be that person. That's making me kind of less desirable because I'm interrogating him. Because of my own insecurities. And I'm not saying it went away totally, but I just started being like, What was good about it?

And then we would self pleasure on the phone when he would tell me. And then I started to eroticize that like, then we can play with that. But also just in the sense of relationships and friendships that he has with others or I have with others, want him to have those. I may not be here tomorrow. I don't want him to be alone. I want him to have support. I want him to be loved. I want him to have fun. And it's all kind of tied together.

So I think jealousy is just, it's something that we really need to look at. And if it's that triggering for us, do some work around it. We don't have to accept that it means something and for men feeling jealousy and really like ownership over their women is fucked up. That's how violence occurs. We need to really get comfortable with the fact that people have agency and they will make choices and we're doing non monogamy even in monogamous relationships. And always have been and it was called cheating Let's just have a conversation about doing things differently.

[00:24:23] Gwyn: Yeah. It's um, there are a couple things that that really came up in my mind was the lack of control even in a D/s style relationship it goes back to that 'we are whole people' aspect. So as much as we want to control in a playful, this is a thing that we're doing, but that sits on top of the fact that we are still whole people.

[00:24:49] CJ: and we can always take it away.

[00:24:52] Gwyn: Exactly. And the other thing that really, really came up was the fear as the driving force. I find that jealousy is a, um. sort of a shellac emotion. It's the first thing that we sit on, but it's on top of all of these other things, fear being a large part of that. And, yeah, I was just thinking about doing the work to figure out what it is that's driving your jealousy seems so important.

[00:25:20] CJ: It does, I think for healthy relationships. It's important, and it doesn't mean that you just allow whatever happens to happen. I'm not saying like, oh, he gets to do whatever he wants. You know, there's mutual respect. Our dynamic and the way we do non monogamy, which is, you know, take it or leave it, a lot of people like to do theirs differently.

But for us, our relationship is the one that matters the most and anything that we do outside of it has to add value and not take away. It doesn't mean it's adding like a ton of value every time. Like it cannot take away to the point of making the other person feel disrespected or uncomfortable, right?

We want to feel good about it. We want to ignite our relationship and our eroticism. It doesn't mean it happens every time. It doesn't mean that's the only reason, but it's like to come back together and fuel what we have is really fun. And if I were tripped up and like, Oh, she's a better submissive than I am, or she's prettier than I am, or she's younger, or she's this, or she's that. I'm not having those juicy good times. And I want the juicy good time.

And it's like, how do I get there? And also, it can say something about the other person if you can't get there, too. Like, why not? What are they doing, potentially, that is eroding the possibility of that? Because non monogamy can be difficult, but honestly, I think it's usually because someone's doing something that isn't great. Maybe they're breaking agreements, maybe there's like a slow erosion of trust, like it doesn't take a lot to ding the trust.

You know, if you, like a small lie, like people have radar for that shit, you know, it's like, it doesn't even mean that you're looking for it, but don't try to hide whatever, just say the thing. That's how you build trust. Like, you know what? Yeah, she is beautiful and like, I really enjoy fucking her or whatever. And instead of being like, yeah, it was okay. Like, no, that's just bullshit. Like, I know that that's bullshit. Like, just be honest. And like the other person can sit with their feelings. There is that fear of how are they going to react? Everyone has to be a grownup. We have to be grownups because we are grownups.

And I look at like this period of time for us as we're aging. Like, I don't have time to waste time being jealous or feeling less than or whatever. Yes, there will be moments, but I'm not going to live in that swamp. I want to rise above and be like, what else is there? What fun can we have? What can we get up to? Because we don't have much time left, let's, have fun.

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[00:28:39] Gwyn: That is a perfect segue to the next piece, how do you do that? How do you discover who you are especially if you've been in, relationships that have sort of clamped you down in some way or another for most of your life. Whether it's your parents or your friends or your kids or your partners. Everybody has these expectations, of who you are, and they put that on top of you, but how do you figure out who you are

[00:29:05] CJ: You know, I think this is such a common theme for those of us socialized as women. We are good at taking care of other people in general. We are really good at giving up ourselves for other people. We do it when we're kids. So that we are loved by being quiet or whatever it is. And then we, do our career thing or whatever, and then we become mothers potentially, and then it's like, we have to take care of our parents and we're taking care of that.

Like, we're doing all the things. And what I realized after my separation and divorce was like, I think that's why I got out of it so soon. And also kudos to him, like he wasn't willing to sacrifice himself either. Like, okay. We're on our own journeys, but our family is so important to us.

So it's getting to that place of like, am I doing this for me? And really keeping that as the center. And if you don't know what that is, it's time for an exploration of that. Because if you say, I don't know what I want, well, there you go.

And let's just put it in the context of sex. Right?. We can bitch and complain because our partner isn't pleasuring us and not centering our pleasure and it's centering their own pleasure. But do you have a voice there? I'm very vocal now and I didn't used to be. I was very like constricted.

I, the idea of speaking, like talking dirty was like. I don't think I could ever do that. And now I'm like, if there's not that, then what's going on? Like, that's just half of it for me. But I was the person who was like, I gagged myself. Because I allowed how we're socialized and the expectation of women to gag me. I allowed that to happen. And once I realized, I actually don't know what I want, that's what began my journey. Right?

So, get curious about yourself. What parts of yourself are you hiding because of shame. Because of fear. Because you will not be seen. Because your partner or whoever, because they don't see you. They don't want to see you. They have fear. They have their own fear. Like bring the other things out into the light. Let them out to play. It doesn't necessarily have to be dark, but it can be contention.

But in the realm of sex, like just plain old, like having sex together and you're not feeling pleased. Well, are you accepting that? Like you don't have an orgasm and they do like, is that just part of your routine? Do you know how to pleasure yourself? You're in it. You're not like just a fuck toy, like you're there. Make yourself cum. If you don't know how, learn. Discover yourself, spend time with yourself, do these things on your own.

Because if you have an expectation of them being able to do it. But you don't know how, How are they going to learn? Because you can't express it. You can't tell them what you like. You have to have a voice, whether it's on your own or in partnership. And speak that voice. And if you're struggling with how to do that, like don't let it fester because then it turns into resentment and then it's just toxic and gross and I've been there and it's terrible because then you, you're just mad and you're frustrated and then it comes out wrong. Like, you don't want to be there. You don't want to live there. That's not fun.

So. Yeah, I would just say, you have to do this now. Don't even think of it as an option of just resigning yourself to mediocrity for the rest of your life, because that's what it looks like for other people who are aging ahead of you. And it's like, look at that and say either, that's what I want because they're doing it a certain way or that's what I don't want because they're doing it a certain way. And keeping that in mind because time is going by really fast and you have to do it now.

Maybe it's not sex. Maybe it's something else. Like what else is in store for you and the rest of your life? This is not going to end hopefully in five years, like you probably have a huge lifespan ahead of you. Like another life almost. Let's make the most of it. That's how you do that. Keep thinking about at some point, this will end.

I was thinking about this today is the concept of something after this life, holding you back or keeping you in a space of accepting mediocrity. I don't think about another life. I don't think about something after this. I think about the end. The end of my life is the end. I will not experience anything beyond that.

And I don't want to be In the process of being at the end and going like, I wish I had done that thing. Why didn't, Oh my God, I never told that person how I really felt, or I wasn't able to explore something about myself. Like I don't want to have regrets. I want to be like, that was a fucking good life.

That was a life well lived. Pains, pleasures, heartbreak. So much connection, all of them, all of the soup that is life. I want to feel like, yep, I did it. I don't want to be like, oops,

[00:35:24] Gwyn: So, as someone who does believe that we come around again. I know that even if that is the case, and if it's not, then it's not. But even if it is, it's not going to be me. It's going to be some other iteration. Of parts of me, but it won't be me. And so even with that, there is still the end.

So it sounds like the 1st step is to make the decision that you don't want to be mediocre. That you want pleasure. And for a lot of people, I think that that's a really hard first step.

[00:35:59] CJ: It is very intentional. And what is it that you need to believe or to experience? Like, what is your end goal, right? So for me, aside from just feeling like, yeah, I fucking lived my life. Watching my parents and being like, unh uh, what I'm noticing is a lack of intentionality and agency and acceptance of death. Like there is a denial around death. Like we're just going to move along like business as usual. And I'm like, what? No one gets out of here alive, people. Like this is no, like be intentional.

So what is it for you? How do I envision myself, like feeling, what do I want to feel? What do I want to look like? How does my body work? And I keep that in my mind and I work towards that. For me, my brain is like where I was holding a lot of fear was like cognitive decline, because that's what my family suffers from.

So I'm just sort of like. Okay, what can I do to try to reduce the risk around that? And I'm just learning stuff. I'm learning about what I can do now and what I could have started like 10, 20 years ago even like, how am I going to live my life that helps me? And part of that for me, it's like, yes, you can learn a new language and you can play games. Great Stuff. I do those things too. But can I like, take it a little bit further and just queer up some shit? Right?

Like, just be like, toying with jealousy. Like, I don't know. Like, that's what they say I'm supposed to feel. Or like, that's the expectation. Or that's how most people feel. And it's like, well, how am I going to like, empower myself to and change my mind, create new neuropathways because those groups have been there for a while. No, I'm going to hop on over to another one and try to do that. I literally like think about that stuff. So what is it for you that, is important and keeping that in mind, if your libido is low, question that.

Why is my libido low? I'm toying with hormones right now because pleasure is so important to me. I'm like, I know it could be better. It's not the way that it was. I don't accept it's my new normal, it's just part of the age. I'm like, no. I want more. I'm not ready to give this up. I don't ever want to give it up.

I might never reach where I was as a horny teenager feeling in my 40s, but I want to get close to that again. And like, is it possible? So I'm looking into like, how do I get there? Like, how do I have that desire again? Or if it's not like, what adjustments do I need to make? You have to choose the thing that's important to you and make it a practice.

It needs to be a practice. You just have to keep, Oh, does this serve that? Does this serve that? It's a commitment to something, right? Serve the commitment that you choose.

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[00:39:36] Gwyn: I fully believe that intimacy can help in so many ways. It brings pleasure. It helps relax us. It can help the world be a better place because when we feel good we spread that joy to those around us. However, if you're not feeling good in your body, you can't even get there. Lucky for us a company called Momotaro Apotheca, has created a beautiful salve to help us with vulva discomfort.

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[00:41:12] Gwyn: And now back to my conversation with CJ from no shame with CJ

I wanted to come back to something. How is pleasure good for you?

[00:41:23] CJ: It gets you in touch with your body. We, and I'm not the best at that at times, I'm very much in my head. That's probably why I like D/s because when I'm forced to get into my body, even though I like a lot of the brain fuckery, it's still comes down to like, Oh, like connecting the thoughts with, the pleasure.

Figure out a way that gets you into your body. Pleasure is so good for us. If we don't use our parts we are going to lose them. For women, you can get atrophy. We have a decline or bottoming out of hormones. Keep using them so that they stay healthy. And hormone replacement really does help. And it helps with clitoral or vaginal atrophy, which can in the long run as we age, get chronic UTIs.

Replacement estrogen can really help with that and chronic UTIs can actually look like dementia as we age. And you may not even know that you have a UTI, like you become desensitized. So staying healthy in your genital areas is really important. So look at it like if you want to be healthy and live longer in a healthy way. That's part of your body. You need to pay attention to it.

And it doesn't mean you have to be constantly masturbating or anything like that, but why not? You know, like explore, get curious about it. Pleasure can be so expansive. It doesn't necessarily mean penis and vagina. You and I know this. But people think of sex and that's what they think of. The majority of people, right? That's why we're like struggling. How do people do that thing with their parts? Like what parts? Like, we're so curious about things because we think it's this one thing, penis and vagina, and it's not. Like it doesn't even have to be anywhere near that. It can just be touch. It could just be the lightest touch on your skin. You know, maybe it's firm touch. Maybe it's like a grasping of your hair, just release and let go.

[00:43:57] Gwyn: Yeah, I'd like to add on to that with not making orgasm the goal

[00:44:01] CJ: Yeah.

[00:44:01] Gwyn: and making pleasure the goal.

[00:44:04] CJ: Pleasure. where does it feel good in your body? And penises don't always show up in a way that works for penis and vagina as we age. What are you going to do with that body part, if that's all that you're thinking. It doesn't always show up to the party in the way that it used to. Right? Like, just a lingam massage or oral or touch or whatever, like there's so many options.

There's so many things I haven't even tapped into yet, but I know that my body wants to experience. So it's just getting curious and really it takes again, an intentionality and a prioritization of it. For a reason, right? You have to really connect it to a commitment that you're making to yourself.

Marker

[00:45:07] Gwyn: Just because we were talking about women and as we are aging, a lot of us do experience changes in our hormonal structure. And we just don't want to even bother half the time or less than half the time. So what are your thoughts around that?

[00:45:25] CJ: I'll just give you my little spiel because I'm very opinionated about this because of my own experience. I'm 57 and I had always heard in the sort of zeitgeist about estrogen leading to breast cancer or increasing risk of breast cancer. So no one talked to me about menopause. My family doesn't really remember like what their experience was. And when I started having severe, daily, multiple hot flashes was in 2022 and I was like, I can power through this. I'm going to take supplements and I'm going to eat a certain way and I'm going to do the things and I don't need to take hormones.

I'm like, that is my fallback. Like, if I need to, I'll do that. And then I started listening to some podcasts about that and started listening to experts on hormones and learned how little doctors are actually trained in menopause that to me is outrageous. But the good news is that there's more education coming out. There's more studies there's more attention being paid. Again, this is that sort of belief of like, Oh, you're done with your reproductive years. You're disposable, you're used up, you're old news, you've done your function. Bye bye. It's like, no, I'm a human being. I want to still experience life.

So, two people that I recommend, Dr. Mary Claire Haver for menopause stuff, she wrote a book called The New Menopause, and also Kelly Casperson who is a urologist. Kelly Casperson is the reason why I am on hormones. And once I heard we're finding that these things are actually brain protective, I was like, well, and then understanding that actually, this is good for longevity.

So I would recommend really doing a deep dive. There's so much good literature out there, and so many new things coming out, new studies. And it's helped me a ton. I don't suffer from the hot flashes in the same way. My joint pain gone. I used to have joint pain. I felt sluggish. I had the sludge in the, like, can't put a thought together, can't remember anything.

My kids were always like, Oh my God, like she doesn't remember anything. And I feel like on top of my game now. I feel like myself. I feel a little bit better than myself because I was suffering through it for so long. When I was married to my first husband. I had moments of rage here and there I think I was actually starting perimenopause and like my hormones started going wacko. And then I ended up on an antidepressant for my safety and everyone else's.

And I look back and I'm like, it probably wasn't that it was just hormonal shit. And if I had had an expert to help me with that. You know, it could have been done through the lens of that instead of like you're broken. I mean, no one said you're broken, but it feels like that. It feels like I'm the only one going through this and you're not, you are not the only one.

Your libido might go crazy like mine did and it was like ramped up and now I'm experiencing a decline. I'm like, what can I do to help that now? I'm looking at getting testosterone. I'm going to try a little bit of that. It's like, I want to feel better. Like, I feel good, but I want to feel better. So it's always that, like, how can you feel better? That's how I look at it. Like what's available to me and getting curious about it. And it might look differently for you, I do believe that, because there's so much shame and stigma around menopause and aging, that we actually literally have to just flip that shit on its head and be like, we are not broken.

And I do not accept that I can self care my way out of this shit, because it's not about that. When your hormones plummet and they go away because you don't have any eggs left, that is a significant life change and can make you feel like a different human being. And most of us are probably going through some degree of that. And we don't fucking talk about it, and that drives me crazy. It's like, no, make them have the conversation with you. Doctors, husbands, partners, even let your kids in on it. So it's not like, oh, I'm just nuts because of menopause. No, like, Let's talk about this. Like this is what's happening to my body. Like get educated and look for help and make the doctors work with you.

They won't have the answers. You have to find the people that have the answers and then go to your doctor and say, I want to try that. That's what you need to do. Nine times out of 10, they don't know because they were not educated on menopause. And there's new studies, get on top of that shit. Those two people are all over it. Follow them, learn from them. All about agency and intention.

[00:51:24] Gwyn: Yeah, I love that. We're so taught to just respect the authority, but actually being patient led is the way to manage your own health care because they are just managing symptoms. We have to go to them and say, this is the issue. And sometimes we have to go back 17 times because you bring them the issue and they don't know how to deal with it in the capacity.

[00:51:47] CJ: Don't end up in a DS non consensually with your doctor. It's a power, like, don't let it be a power exchange relationship. Fuck that. I don't care if you have an MD. I know my body. That's how I look at it. It's like, I did not agree to this power exchange relationship. And I know you only have 10 minutes. So I'm going to send you the stuff ahead of time, so I'm like, this is what I'm going to talk about, and this is what I want to know, and this is what I want to try, send the message before you go to the appointment, because it's not their fault either that they're constricted by, time and all

[00:52:27] Gwyn: We could do capitalism insurance companies, and we're not going to get into that because we are running out of time. I want to make sure to respect your time limits. And I like to end my podcast. with one final question, which is what excites you?

[00:52:41] CJ: What excites me is possibilities. What is possible? And I didn't live my life that way for a long time. And now I think one of the best things about aging is understanding that my needs are super important and what is possible for me. And I have to say, my husband has been a real positive influence for me in seeing me.

And being curious about when I come to him with, he's always like, I love that. Yes. He's a yes, a person of yes. And I think I was kind of, and I still am to a degree because I'm like cautious. There's a degree of like, no, or I'm not sure for me. And now I'm like a little bit more. Yes. so now I'm really trying to lean into yes to possibilities and it doesn't mean you have to do all the things, but just thinking about it, contemplating, considering can be really wonderful for changing your mind. Thank you so much, Gwyn. My main place is on Instagram. I love taking women on this journey with me. I want to inspire you. My coaching program is called erotic evolution. So if you're ready to start evolving and growing, let's do it

[00:54:22] Gwyn: This has been great, CJ. This has been really wonderful and I will have links in the show notes to everything. Everybody should go visit No Shame with CJ. What a fantastic conversation.

[00:54:34] CJ: I appreciate you Gwyn

[00:54:38] Gwyn: did you have any aha moments when you were listening? Were there things for you or things that you want to share with a friend or a loved one? For me, it was her feelings about the hormone replacement therapy. As a woman who has been struggling with perimenopausal symptoms for a while, and they are really starting to ramp up, I have some more learning to do.

Please be sure to find CJ on Instagram as No Shame with CJ or go to our website also called No Shame with CJ. While you are cruising the web, please be sure to check out our website to whatexcitesus.com. That way you can listen to all the past episodes or just read transcripts. You can even record a message to me. And let me know what you think. I really do love to hear about what you're thinking. I want this to be a two-way conversation.

What Excites Us! is produced, edited and hosted by me. I'm Gwyn Isaacs. Our podcast host is tickled at life. They have lots of other great sex, positive content. There please go check them out. The music is by Stephan Kartenberg and Julius H thanks so much for listening. And please remember that you are truly awesome.