What Excites Us!

Episode 54: Unlocking Confidence Through Kink - Gwyn with Amy Rowan from The Unlocking Intimacy Summit

Transcript:

00:00 - Gwyn (Host)
This podcast is about sex and sexuality, so please only listen if you are an adult, without kids or other ears around, that cannot or do not consent to sensitive language and content. Thanks, hello, and welcome to what Excites Us. Have you ever wanted to try something in the bedroom and not been sure how it was going to land? Well, I'm here to tell you that it can actually be more empowering than you can possibly imagine, and that's what this episode is about. My name is Gwen Isaacs. I am a certified sex coach and sexologist, and I'll be talking more about that in just a minute, but first I need to rant for a little bit about how things have been. It's been a minute y'all, and I want to start off by saying thank you. I deeply appreciate you sticking with me and keeping me on your feed. This work is really important. I truly believe that we can help the world heal and be a better place if we can all do a little bit of work towards enjoying ourselves a little bit more. 

01:14
With that being said, it has been a rough six months or so for me, and so I tried to get the podcast out, but that just didn't happen. I had surgery, I moved, there were children in crises, all the things, but none of that matters. I mean, it all matters, but it's not relevant. What does matter and is relevant is that we're back and we appreciate you sticking with us. So, to get the ball rolling again, I'm starting this off with an interview that was done with me, so reversing the microphones, as it were. I spoke with Amy Rowan on her summit called Unlocking Intimacy, about how kink and embracing kink can empower you not only in the bedroom but in life as well, and I was so thrilled and honored to be a part of this that, even though life was crashing around me, I really wanted to stick with this commitment. And now that that's happened and it's it was wonderful I thoroughly, thoroughly think that you should go check out the whole summit, which you can do at Amy Rowan's website, which is the Suburban Sexologist. 

02:33
Now that that's over and this is over, I would like to bring you my episode, because I listened back to it and it's pretty good. There are some things that I would change and I'll probably bust in a little bit and tell you more about that as we go along, but, for the most part, totally worth listening to and it seems like a nice way to step back into putting the podcast out much more regularly. As I mentioned in the episode, I am working on crafting a coaching program specifically around this, so if you're interested, please reach out to me. Probably the easiest way to do that is to go to whatexcitesuscom. There's a little button to speak to me, or you can send me an email. All the information is there as well. Thanks again so much. I deeply appreciate you, and here I am with Amy Rowan in her Unlocking Intimacy program. 

03:33 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Welcome to Unlocking Intimacy. Access your deepest desire, create meaningful connection and master the art of mutual pleasure. My name is Amy Rowan, I'm the Suburban Sexologist and today I'm so excited to be talking to Gwen Isaacs. Gwen is also known as Sex Fairy Gwen, and she's a certified sex coach and sexologist who has been helping folks achieve their sexual goals and assist with sexuality concerns professionally since 2017. She firmly believes that everyone has the right to pleasure. Furthermore, when we feel better, we do better. Therefore, personal joy can be a building block to healing society as a whole. 

04:16
As a sex coach, gwen's focus is helping her clients discover their unique self-expression, releasing shame and teaching skills to allow deeper communication and exploration in the bedroom. She has extensive experience in the fields of BDSM, polyamory and other alternative sexual expressions, as well as traditional heterosexual couple relationships. Gwen's podcast what Excites Us discusses sex and sexuality through a variety of perspectives, including cultural and historical, with professional guests and others, so that listeners will be able to identify personally with certain subjects and know that they are not alone in their desires. Basically, gwen believes as long as you aren't harming anyone, including yourself, you get to enjoy. Welcome, Gwyn, I'm so excited to be talking to you today. 

05:03 - Gwyn (Host)
Thank you, Amy. I'm excited too. It's so fun to be on this side of the microphone. 

05:08 - Amy Rowan (Host)
I know, I know, as a podcaster, I'm sure you're the one doing the interviews. So it's kind of fun to flip the script, isn't it? 

05:14 - Gwyn (Host)
It really is yeah. 

05:16 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Well, I'm excited to be able to dive into a topic that I haven't interviewed yet for this summit, which is talking about the empowerment of kink and how that can help empower women in and out of the bedroom. So I'm curious why is this a topic that's near and dear to your heart? 

05:36 - Gwyn (Host)
Well, it's near and dear to my heart because I found it true A big part of my early life was reckoning with these desires that there was so much stigma around. I mean, there still is a lot of stigma around, although it's certainly lessening when you have things like the Simpsons talking about being vanilla, which cracks me right up. 

06:01
Which is good we're evolving cracks me right up, which is good. We're evolving, exactly exactly. But once I came to a place where I realized that it was okay to like the things that I like, I suddenly stepped into a form of myself that I hadn't really before that a strength and an inner knowing and a comfort. And along those lines, when, decades later, that script got flipped and I tried a different role in kink, it was the same thing. It felt like, oh, I can do all these things, and that translated to the world around me. I had an inner strength and core that I hadn't really experienced before. 

06:44 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Wow, yeah, it's interesting, you know, just thinking about sort of the way kink has been perceived all these years. I've been rewatching Buffy the Vampire Slayer with my middle son and just two nights ago we were watching one of these episodes and Willow gets evil and you know there's the switch. But they're in this like dark evil, like leather. You know the cages, you know and you know people are tied up and all the stuff and I'm like these are the messages that we got about kink. 

07:14
You know, growing up of like it's that, you know it's for evils and vampires, you know all of this stuff and so, and so I think that's why a lot of those you know, when people either find out naturally that they are, have natural k. That's why a lot of those you know, when people either find out naturally that they are, have natural kinky desires which a lot of people do like from very, very early ages to whether they discover it later on in life. You know there can be a lot of sort of confusion and and like what is this? Is something wrong with me? Is that sort of what you're, you've experienced, or your clients? 

07:43 - Gwyn (Host)
Oh, absolutely there's. There's a lot of that. Kink is portrayed much like regular porn. It's entertainment, it's not education, right? So even in porn, kink is portrayed in a cartoonish way, right? There's people in leather, there's people with these horrible looking weapons and doing horrible things to people, whereas in reality almost everybody enjoys a light tap on the butt here and there or getting tied up with a scarf. That is certainly all. These things are in the kinky realm. So is tickling Not my personal kick, but there are a lot of people who are really, really into it, and anything that is beyond the traditional quote unquote vanilla and I have feelings about that term realm can be considered kinky. So a lot of people who are like oh no, I would never do anything that is kinky or part of BDSM. You might be already doing that and that's OK, that's wonderful. The thing is to figure out what it is that you like and you don't like, right, and sometimes we figure out what we don't like by doing it, and so that's a whole nother tangent. 

08:58 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Yeah, yeah, well, and you know, I think you know, talking sort of about the examples that we get you know, for example, I know that you know, within the past few years, my husband and I have been delving a little bit more into that world. But we wanted to get you know, we wanted to get some more information, we wanted to look, and it was, it was almost impossible to find healthy, you know, positive again, not like you know this extreme porn stuff, and so, and honestly, we didn't really find anything, and so we're like, well, we'll just figure things out on our own, which has been a lot of fun, but but it's for someone who wants to explore it in a again, outside of all of that, it can be such a challenge. So, you know, what have you found along those lines? 

09:44 - Gwyn (Host)
It's true it's hard to find good information. That isn't terrifying and there are some things that someone should really know before engaging in it. So, for instance, choking is a big thing on the porn sites now and that's really dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. Even a solid spanking can be kind of dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. But there are certainly plenty of ways to figure out how to find those things. 

10:15
If you take porn out of the picture, finding a professional like myself or you or others, there are certainly plenty of folks who are willing to help 101 folks, people into the kinky realm. There's some really great sites. Kinky College is one that comes to mind and there are some books out there that are also, if people are interested. And oh, my favorite site that I like to send everybody to who is just interested maybe, is called Literatica and it's mostly text, although they've started doing audio stories now and it's a nice place to. It's still porn, so it's still entertainment, but it's a nice way to think about. Oh, here are some things that people like Maybe I'm interested in trying it and then fantasizing. See what happens when you let your brain just relax and go and see what turns you on, and then figure out how to do that with your partner or by yourself in the bedroom. 

11:18 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Yeah, I know I love Literotica. I think that's a great site, you know, I think that's one that I recommend to my clients as well, because I think also and I'm not anti-porn by any stretch of the imagination, but I know a lot of people. They don't necessarily need the visual, but they want to hear, especially generally speaking, all the owners right, and so, you know, being able to listen to a lot of those different stories and things, it's a great way to, like you said, explore your erotic world, unlock, you know, and sort of settle into, you know again, just kind of getting into your erotic self, which is a challenge for a lot of people, and it's a very important step in embracing and, you know, really be able to step into our sexuality. 

11:59 - Gwyn (Host)
One of the things that I really love is when we start playing with new toys and tools. It can create almost a new romantic or a new relationship energy in our lives again and that just builds on itself and builds in the bedroom, and builds on itself and builds in the bedroom and it just can be delightful yeah. 

12:18 - Amy Rowan (Host)
You know, I think, one thing that there are so many elements of, like the super important, necessary elements of kink that I really think that all sexual relationships should embrace. You know, and I'm curious I imagine you have this opinion. I'm curious, if there, what do you think are some of the common elements you know as far as, like, discussion beforehand, boundaries, things like that, like, what do you think are some things that are important to bring into all sexual relationships, whether they're defining themselves as kinky or not? What do you think are some things that are important to bring into all sexual relationships, whether they're defining themselves as kinky? 

12:47 - Gwyn (Host)
or not, right, right? Well, discussion is definitely key and I'm sure you do this as well. Recommend discussing things not in the bedroom, right? So, talking over dinner, a lot of people enjoy going for a drive to have some more intimate or scary or intense discussions, because then you don't have to look at each other. 

13:11
Yeah, having a concept of where your no's are is really important. Now, to be fair, sometimes you trip over them when you're like, oh wait, I thought I liked that and and I really don't. As I mentioned before, finding out what you don't like helps get towards what you do. But having a base of yes, this is intriguing and no, this isn't intriguing, and being able to discuss that ahead of time is really really, really key. Boundaries can be flexible, but you never want to push on it in the moment, right, so that is super and that's a I tell everybody. I live by it myself. When you're in the moment, all of a sudden you're like, yes, I want this thing, I want this thing that we've discussed is not on the table. Don't do it. Just admit, okay. Okay, that was something I really like. Next time we'll go a little farther. Yeah, don't do it in the moment. 

14:11 - Amy Rowan (Host)
that is really important and how do you, um, you know, what do you suggest, or how do you recommend you know, if you have a couple and they're like, okay, well, I mean, yeah, I do enjoy a little spanking, but I don't even know, like I don't know, you know, as far as just knowing what it is that you're interested in, like, how do you recommend that a couple starts, or or solo, or or throuple? 

14:33
you know whatever how do you recommend that that anyone, in any relationship, alone or with partner or partners, you know, starts to sort of, you know, just, you know, learn and decide. You know these are things that I am interested in and then and having those conversations. 

14:49 - Gwyn (Host)
There's some really great tools and in fact, I'm working on one myself, but there's some already out there called the yes, no, maybe list. Okay, remember how I said I was going to break in a little bit and talk a little bit more. Here is the first one. I did, in fact, craft a beautiful free gift for you guys. It's a 10-page how to start playing with kink for the first time. You can get it again for free by going to whatexcitesuscom slash free gift. That's whatexcitesuscom slash free gift 10-page starter kit, as it were, about how to start playing with these things yourself. Yeah, highly recommend everybody download a simpler version to get started, because there are some that are outrageous, that have, you know, hundreds and hundreds of items, but there are some nice, simple ones. I think Scarlatine has a nice one and while they're for teenagers, you know it's a good place to start. 

15:50
There are lots of them out there. If you just type yes, no, maybe list, you can find them of them out there. If you just type yes, no, maybe list, you can find them and it'll go through a whole list of things that you might be interested in. Yes, I absolutely want to try this. No, I absolutely do not want to try this. And maybe, and just start having those conversations and bring one or two to the table every time. Don't try to go so deep that you can't back out of it, to go so deep that you know you can't back out of it, right? So if you're just, if you're just like let's try spanking, then stick with that. Just try the spanking and then talk about it afterwards. That is everything, is all about communication. 

16:28 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Every, every thing about sex is about communication, and so really being able to have those conversations I cannot say this enough is so key yeah, I spoke with a client once and you know he was pretty embedded deeply in the in the BDSM kink world and one thing that, um, and he wasn't in a specific relationship, so you know so with. 

16:50
So he was finding partners. They were having sort of these negotiations of how they wanted to play and what was okay, what was not okay, and then at the end he had something that I thought was a really cool idea, which was they had a notebook, you know, and maybe it was even a Google doc, right and they wrote back and forth like this is what I like, this is what I didn't like, this is what you know. I was intrigued, but maybe I wanted to do it this way, and so it became this really nice feedback system. But then, of course, it was all written down and they could go back and look at things you know for more ideas, and I was like that is so clever and I mean, and what if every relationship did that? You know, because you know when you're done, you're done having sex, you're kind of laying there in the afterglow and really at that time is the last time to be like so how did I do, honey, like you're not having those conversations then? 

17:39 - Gwyn (Host)
right. Right, I mean, pillow talk can be fun if it's a breakdown, but it's that's really not the greatest time for that. And yeah, I love google docs for sharing information, feedback it's a wonderful thing. I know polycules who communicate primarily, I mean, you know, when they're not all together in a Google Doc for setting up that sort of situation. You know, frequently when I tell people what I do for a living, they ask for a hot sex tip. So what I say, not really knowing them or any of their situations, is that most sexual issues can be helped with more and better conversation or lube or both. Now, conversation is really on you, although I can help you if you'd like me to. I do that as a coach. But when it comes to lube, there are two brands that I always reach for first. 

18:36
Uber Lube is my go-to silicone lube. It's pure. It's not full of any unnecessary additives that make it smell, taste or feel, unlike you, me. It comes in a beautiful glass bottle that I'm happy to have on my nightstand and it's great in most situations. However, if you prefer a water-based lube or have some other intimate needs, I recommend Good Clean Love. They have a variety of great products to help everything in the bedroom go smoothly. They've got some vaginal care kits, some cleaning solutions, oils and candles. It's really great. Now you can find an affiliate link for these at the podcast's website, whatexcitesuscom. And, to be clear, you do help me out when you buy through these links. But I specifically reached out to these companies because I truly love their products and I believe in what they're doing. So help yourself, help me, help these lovely companies and get better sex with better lube. Go visit the links for Uber Lube and Good, clean Love at whatexcitesuscom. 

19:52 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Yeah, talk to me a little bit more about sort of the empowerment that we can step into once, like you really start to be able to own your own you know desires, you know like, tell me a little bit more about how that you know plays out well, everything we do is connected to everything we do right? 

20:11 - Gwyn (Host)
so if you're an anxious person, you tend to show up on time because you want to make sure that you're there and everything is going to happen the way it's supposed to. So, for instance, I had a client who had a really hard time talking with his partner about what he wanted Just straight up what he wanted. They managed a business together and they could have those conversations easily, but when it came to his emotional desires, he couldn't do it. So what I had him do was start asking her for things like honey can you reach that mustard for me? Instead of getting up and going and getting the mustard himself. So if we reverse engineer that, what we do in the bedroom helps us with what we do outside of the bedroom. So if we're standing in our own power, whether you want to take on a top role or a bottom role, you're still standing in your own power. That translates to what you do outside of the bedroom and we didn't really talk about. 

21:13
Let's go back for a second and talk about bdsm, right? So the letters bdsm have. It's the weirdest combination ever. Um, it's bondage and discipline. D and s is for domination and submission, and s and m is for sado and masochism. So all of those things fall in the umbrella of kink, and I just tend to use the term kink because it feels less scary for some people. 

21:45 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Yeah, I think BDSM just that term has like a negative connotation. 

21:50 - Gwyn (Host)
Right, you imagine the woman in the full leather suit with the seven inch stiletto heels and the giant bullwhip. I don't know anybody who plays that way. 

22:02 - Amy Rowan (Host)
And if you do, and if it's consensual, it's also OK, but exactly that's not realistic. 

22:09 - Gwyn (Host)
That's not most people, you know. I mean, there are some scenes that are very heavily involved in fashion. Most are not. Most are like you know, your guy in your flannel and jeans going to the bedroom to tie up his wife with his scarf roles and that's it. That's all they do. 

22:35
There are people who switch, who go back and forth, but what I'm thinking about for your audience and for just the general population, we don't need those things. We don't need to put ourselves in these deep boxes. We can just be tonight. I want to be on top and therefore I want to do these things to you until I tell you to do something to me, and it can be that simple. And then tomorrow let's play in a different way, or next week, or whatever it is. And so by owning that power, whether you're on the top or the bottom, because the bottom actually gets to set the tone, because they can always say no, yeah, the bottom is the one who's in control right ultimately, because they can always say no, and that the bottom is the one who's in control right Ultimately, because they can always say no, and that's that that also. 

23:19
We need to talk about that in a second. But so once you assume that role, whether you're top or the bottom, you are stepping into a place of power, and then you're bringing that with you when you're done, because whether or not you can, you know, use those memories to fantasize for the next time, or just feel empowered and embodied in that and bring that to the boardroom, then that's great. What did I just say that I wanted to talk about in a second the bottom being able to say now. 

23:48 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Right, okay, safe words. 

23:52 - Gwyn (Host)
Safe words is another term that is getting popular in culture, which I think is great. Yeah, safe words is another term that is getting popular in culture, which I think is great. Yeah, because I think that we need to have safe words for everything, not just sex, but a safe word for folks who don't know or haven't been familiar with. This is a word that you use in the moment to stop all activity. Now, in kinky circles, there tends to be a green, yellow, red, and a person who's the dominant or the top will a good one, will check in with their bottom and see how they're doing and they'll go green, yellow, red. 

24:27
Some people have completely different terminologies, whatever works for the people involved, but if the bottom says red at any time, then everything stops and yellow can often be negotiated, for I need to slow down or we need to just take a minute. But again, these are things that should be talked about ahead of time. But because the bottom has that power they have that power Right, has that power, they have that power right and it and again, you take that with you when you leave, when you stop this activity, because you have, you've been embroiled in it for 20 minutes to three days. You know who knows, and so that becomes a part of you and that's how it can empower you outside of the bedroom. 

25:12 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Yeah, you know, and I think another thing you just said you know about the checking in on a regular basis. You know, I think that's another, another thing that is important to bring into any sexual relationship. You know, like, is it, does this feel good? You know, just a little checking in, not excessively, but but you know, I think, especially I think a lot of people have had experience. You know, when you're very deep in a pleasurable experience, you know sometimes it's hard to actually get like words out of your mouth and so having that person actually ask you a question kind of can help you be able to verbalize something again. 

25:50 - Gwyn (Host)
For even if we're just doing like green, red, yellow, and there are people who can get completely wordless and if you are one of those people, just talk with your partner about that ahead of time and maybe work out a system of signals. If I tap your shoulder three times, it means this. If I stroke your leg, it means that, because sometimes accessing those words can be really challenging. 

26:14 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Yeah, especially if it's yeah, you're in a very intense experience, which you know, and the more intense, you know, the more challenging, and that's the time when, probably, the communications is the most important. 

26:25 - Gwyn (Host)
Exactly. 

26:27 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Well, this is kind of touching a little bit. You know just about the knowledge and skills that you know require, that are important, you know to be able to take. You know let's again someone's curious and spanking. You know or something, you know what. What type of knowledge and skills do you think that people need to be able to engage in some of these things safely? 

26:48 - Gwyn (Host)
I think for the lighter activities it's really just use your best judgment. With spanking in particular, you don't want to smack somebody up near the kidneys, you want to stay on the rump, right, but that's really the worst you could do is if it gets too hard, and I can't imagine that your folks are going to get so hard that it's going to. You know that's extreme player stuff and that's not what we're talking about. Things like choking can be dangerous, so don't go and do that on not what we're talking about. Um, things like choking can be dangerous, so don't go and do that on your own without thinking about it. But a lot of the times, a lot of the light things, just be aware of your surroundings, be aware of your partner. Um, don't use things like rope, because that's really unpleasant, and just take things slowly, right? 

27:45
If someone is super interested, then yes, go, look at a lot of the kinkier stuff. I hesitate to send people to FetLife, but there is actually some decent information there, although there's a lot of trash. So I would not recommend just doing that on your own. Reach out to a coach or reach out to Kinky College. There is information out there. You just have to sort through the chaff to get there and yeah, and, like I said, a lot of the lighter stuff blindfolds, and just use your best judgment. Don't get so headstrong in the moment that you're forgetting that that is an actual person. 

28:21 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Yeah, yeah, and I think it is, you know, just important for you know to realize that, yeah, like you said, there's a person on the other end of it and you know, recognizing that if it seems like it might be unsafe, then you know, let's pause. And I think, at the core with any, whether it's a, you know, kinky relationship or a non-kinky, you know sexual relationship like that, knowing that the two partners are fully trusting, you know, have best interests at heart and making sure that you know nothing is going to be, you know, dangerous or anything like that. 

28:56 - Gwyn (Host)
Okay, and here's another thing that I really wish I had mentioned when I was talking with Amy is it's important and really helpful to start slowly and lightly, not only to build up the endorphins that might be happening, but to make sure that your communication is working properly. So please, if you're engaging in this type of activity for the first time, start slowly, go lightly, check in a bunch. Let me just throw out one more thing, which is that there are ways that we describe kinds of pain. So there's a thuddy kind of pain, which is, you know, being hit with something that's going to bruise you deeply, and then there's a stingy sort of pain, which is just, as I said, is stingy, right. So a lot of people tend to go towards household implements at first, which makes a lot of sense, right? I mean? 

29:50
there are people who may have been hit with wooden spoons as children, right? So if you're doing that, really, really check in with your person and make sure that they are on board and that it's that this is the direction you want to be going. 

30:09 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Well, and you know, actually, since you brought up pain, you know, I'm curious maybe if you can elaborate a little bit on just sort of the relation of pain and pleasure and how you know how they can enhance each other. 

30:22 - Gwyn (Host)
Well, our brain actually doesn't recognize the difference, it just says sensation. We are the ones who then interpret that pain to be pain or pleasure. Like I said, tickling is a big kink for a lot of people and I think, as I've mentioned, it's not my thing. So I think that it's because it straddles that line of pleasure, you know, makes you laugh, to the point that it can get painful because it's so much. But basically what happens when we're experiencing pain is our brain releases endorphins, which then trips our dopamine, which then makes us feel amazing, and so it can be a shortcut to getting to those endorphins Once they kick in. It's the same sort of thing with long sex. You know that takes a good 20 minutes or more. Then your endorphins will also start to kick in. But pain can make that a shortcut, and so you know it's your body's way of protecting you. But it can also be fun to to sort of jiggle with. 

31:33 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Play around with. Yeah, absolutely, and, and you know, and honestly, this may vary, you know, from person to person. But I'm kind of curious, you know, if somebody is playing with you know pain, whether it's study or stingy like is it is it recommended that you like start with pleasure and then bring pain in as a heightener, or you start with pain and move into pleasure, or is it just kind of vary on the person? 

31:56 - Gwyn (Host)
It just varies on the person. I would recommend for this audience in particular, starting with pleasure and in general, that's the way that I like to play and so that's what I would tend to recommend. I know that there are some some heavy, kinky people who really just tie me up and beat me like, okay, that's, that's great, I'm super glad you enjoy that. Um, not what I tend to coach, yeah, and in general I like the mix. This is truly what I like. I like it to be mixed up. So some some pleasant stroking and some smacks, some some some you know pleasant playing with the hair and heighten things that way, because when you're heightening your senses, everything is heightened right, and so pleasure can be heightened. If you throw a little pain in there, sure that can be heightened too. 

32:56 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Yeah, I don't know. I think that's one of the really amazing, you know beautiful things about. You know these types of you know kinky experiences is. You know you're taking what you're used to, which is sort of this pleasure and you know, let's be honest, for most vulva owners it's a little bit more of this right. But you know you're getting up to a place and then all of a sudden it's like a shoot up and then a shoot up, and so it's just really, and then maybe coming back down and then shooting back up again, but it's it's just really playing with pleasure, pain, sensations and just sort of all the endorphin things that you know go on there, which is what is making it into this just really transcendent. You know deep, you know. I don't know how would you describe it. 

33:37 - Gwyn (Host)
No, I think transcendent is a great word, Absolutely yeah. And one thing that we haven't touched on that I want to make sure to talk about is aftercare, which is the official term for what happens after the canoodling. And while when we're having just traditional sex sometimes we don't even do that, we don't spend that time having that pillow talk enjoying the afterglow, but when you're doing kinky things, it's really, really important that you have those moments to reconnect with your partner on a person-to-person level, that you talk about whatever you liked or didn't like, maybe not during the aftercare moments, but that you really take that time to cuddle is a large thing that happens or maybe enjoy a little bit of chocolate together, but whatever it is that helps you reground to each other in a just normal, whatever your version of normal is way. 

34:41 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I think, I think it's it's that nurturing piece, nurturing piece which is really, really important after having these very intense experiences together and you know again, like you said, whether it's you know cuddling, you know one person getting the other person you know, bringing a glass of water or, um, you know not, not letting, not making one person just like lay there in the wet spot for a while, you know so, but and preparing for that, you know, and, and, and I think that that's another piece and I know I hear this from a lot of my clients of sort of feeling a little abandoned in the end, where you know the partner, you know especially, maybe the partner had a little bit more fun and this person is just kind of, and then they're like okay, and then they're just sort of left, and or maybe the experience was fun in it, but then they're feeling left and then they're left, feeling disconnected and uncared for, which leaves a bad taste in your mouth. 

35:36 - Gwyn (Host)
Yeah, yeah, it's really important to include that in your planning of this evening or whatever it is that you're doing. Whatever you're doing, to not just get up and go take a shower or whatever it is, go make dinner, whatever. Yeah, make sure that you make the time to reconnect with your partner. 

35:55 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Yeah, yeah, and I know and I like that you said planning the evening too, because you know, I'm sure, and it's been talked about multiple times on the summit already but you know the myth of spontaneous sex and it just has to happen. You know all of that stuff like that. But you know, certainly when you're exploring, you know the more kinky side of things. There there is a planning process which is a lot of fun, but you know, because that's just creating all that anticipation. So but you know, I think that planning part of it, I think again there's a do you want to tell a little bit about, sort of what those different pieces would look like? 

36:33 - Gwyn (Host)
sure. I mean you can get really extreme, uh, like scavenger hunt style, and like super, plan it out, um, or you could just have some conversation ahead of time along the lines of tonight. I'd like to try putting your head up on the headboard for a while, or I mean your hands up on the headboard for a while and tying those up. How would you feel about that? And you can do this like super ahead of time, like a week ahead of time, or you can do it 10 minutes ahead of time, it doesn't really matter, as long as you're both on board, or all seven of you, whatever it is. 

37:13
Whatever we're talking about here, yeah, and so I've had clients who have done things like let's put the scarf over the lamp and that indicates that tonight is going to be this kind of night, yeah, or you know, whatever it is after we go home, um, this can be really fun dinner if you're going out for a dinner, talking over dinner, what it is that you want to do to one another, as long as you follow through very disappointing if you don't follow through but basically having an idea of where you want to go for the evening, um, and I know I'm saying evening, but it can be really anytime um, and and one of the key pieces is mood, right, because, because you can do the same activities and have several different feelings around it. You can be playful and silly and just be. Let's say, we're using like a light toy, so you can be playful and silly and using that toy, or you can be intimate and using that toy, or you can turn it into like an interrogation scene where it gets very fearful in using that toy. There are a myriad of different ways to go and if, as long as you and your partner are on board, have had some conversations around what you're feeling for the evening. 

38:38
Knowing that that can change is good, but if you just have some basic bullet points, I'd like to maybe tie your hands to the headboard. I'd like to maybe leave you stripped naked for a while and stare at your gorgeous body and tell you about all the things that I really enjoy, and then I'm going to tickle you a little bit and then I might smack your tits a little bit and then we're going to have sex like actual intercourse. Great, that sounds fine. If you don't feel like being that bullet pointy, this, these are the things we're going to do. That's okay too. Just lay out a basic concept of where you think you want to go, including the mood. 

39:20 - Amy Rowan (Host)
And you know, and I like, I like you mentioned the, the, the scarf, you know, cause of creating that setting is also important and fun. You know, actually I had a client. They had, um, a color changing light bulb and so if it was blue it meant one thing, if it was red it meant something else, if it was like teal it meant something else, and so, and so I know that couple, you know they would, you know, if it was a red day, then there was gonna be like a lot more like pain, play and things like that. 

39:50
You know, like blue was like a little more, um, like nurturing, like pleasureful you know all of that stuff and and and again, and then I think, and then what that does is that creates that sort of positive anticipation, you know, um, and that excitement and it's just kind of. And then you know, once you do, more and more excitement and it's just kind of. 

40:07 - Gwyn (Host)
And then you know, once you do more and more, like the fourth time you see that blue light, you're like well, I know what I'm in for this time. Yeah, and it can be really, really fun. I love the concept of a color changing light bulb. They have like 30 different colors. 

40:18 - Amy Rowan (Host)
That's so good. What's going to be an orange day? What's going to be a purple day? 

40:23 - Gwyn (Host)
So yeah, and of course, with the caveat that, you know, if you had a lousy day at work and you get home and you see the red bulb and you're just like, oh, not tonight, you're like no, no, like you're like I need blue. 

40:33 - Amy Rowan (Host)
I need blue tonight, not red yeah, exactly like. 

40:36 - Gwyn (Host)
That's fine. Yeah, yes, and that goes back to that empowerment piece, right, that you can, that you can change your mind, that you can say no, honey, that's not going to work for me today. And that all comes from just being centered and comfortable in who you are. 

40:59 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Yeah, which I think is the crux of all of this, you know, is being comfortable knowing this is what I like, this is what's okay, you know, for me, and this isn't what's not okay, you know today, and I trust myself and I trust my partner enough that I can be able to share those things in a way that you know, and if there's enough of a trusting relationship, then it's not going to feel like rejection, it's just going to feel like feedback. 

41:18 - Gwyn (Host)
Yeah. 

41:20 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Well, this has been just such an interesting, enlightening discussion and we sort of have to start to wrap this up, but I just wanted to make sure did we touch on all of the big points that you wanted to talk about? 

41:37 - Gwyn (Host)
I think so, I think so. Yeah, I really want to hit home that trust your partner and communicate with your partner, that you were wrapping up with him. That is really the key to everything. 

41:49 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Yeah, and do you is there, I don't know. Do you, do you have like a phrase or words or anything that sometimes you recommend you know to be able to, to sort of have those pieces of communication around that? 

42:03 - Gwyn (Host)
I mean that's going to go different for every couple. Um, my biggest thing is just don't do it in the moment that you're also wanting to be intimate. Have those conversations separately, be able to talk about them over the dinner table, and then it goes back to that building anticipation like, oh, we talked about that thing last week. When are we gonna try that thing? 

42:24 - Amy Rowan (Host)
yeah, absolutely that's. And again, that's the fun part, right, that's just creating. It's like okay, like you know, finally, the kids are going to be out of the house on saturday night, so let's talk about what we're going to be able to do when the kids are gone yes I've got three kids and they're all in my house all the time so I tell you what we can. We can actually get all three of them out, which takes a miracle, then it is. 

42:48 - Gwyn (Host)
It's fun to be able to plan those things out yes, I had five in my hands and yes, yeah, when they were little, it was, oh, okay, for instance, that one there, that one there, that one there, okay, and and this mom's gonna take those, and okay, we have two hours, let's go. I know exactly. 

43:08 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Okay and go, but but I mean, but that's just it too. I think the other important thing for people to hear is you know, even you know as moms, you know you've got children, you know in the house and making the effort, which can be a big effort, but making the effort to to do what you need to do to be able to carve out that time. You know whether it's for some amazing, crazy kinky escapade or whether it's just to have two hours of sensual pleasure, it doesn't really matter what that is. But taking that time and making it a priority, it's, it's fine. I mean, if you could export five kids, I could export three, but you know it's, it's possible. 

43:49 - Gwyn (Host)
So and it's crucial for any relationship to be able to grow, to have that healthy time that you're scheduled to be together, because prioritizing relationship matters. 

44:03 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Yeah, I'm prioritizing pleasure, and I think the more pleasure you're having in those experiences too, the more you're going to want to have more of that pleasure absolutely absolutely and then, and at that point it's like, okay, I will do whatever I can to get out of the house for a couple hours, because I want to be able to do this for a little while right, oh, you want to join the girl scouts? Great, perfect, you're going for the weekend, yay. 

44:30 - Gwyn (Host)
I just started a Facebook group so that we can have more conversations with more people about these sorts of things, so I'm super excited about that. It's called what Excites Us, and if you're on Facebook, please come join us. That would be great, awesome. 

44:43 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Yeah, and if you want, we can link to that here as well. So just give that to me. I'll make sure that it's posted for you, thank you. Um well, thank you so much, gwen. This has been an absolute blast. I love just getting to learn and and you know share and talk with you. Do you have any any final words you think that you'd like to share with our audience? 

45:01 - Gwyn (Host)
I do. Actually, I'm building a coaching program about this very topic. So if you are interested and if you have a name I don't know what I'm going to call it yet Please come and find me, get on, just DM me or send me an email. Whatexcitesuscom is where you can find me, or I'm at earthlydesirecom on Facebook. 

45:24 - Amy Rowan (Host)
Fantastic. Well, that's so exciting. Well, thank you so much. This has been an absolute pleasure. I just appreciate you sharing all of your juicy knowledge with our audience and just loved having you here today. 

45:39 - Gwyn (Host)
This has been great, amy. I can't wait to talk to you more. What a fantastic summit, thank you. What aites Us? I would love to have more of you in there talking about these sorts of things. Oh, patreon, I have a Patreon. Please come join me in Patreon if you like. It's a nice way to support me a little bit. It really just helps me feel like I'm going along the right path and that this is something you all want. So any monetary amount is useful, because it really just sort of helps me feel like, okay, this is something people want and that is at patreoncom. Slash what excites us and is at patreoncom. Slash what excites us and whatexcitesuscom slash. Free gift is where you can get the 10-page book about how to start diving into this world a little bit more. 

46:56
I want to be sure to thank Amy Rowan and the Unlocking Intimacy Summit for this interview. It was super fun chatting with you. Please go check her out at the Suburban Sexologist Again. I always feel like this is why I usually have a script, because I feel like I should have a script, or else I'm going to forget stuff because I don't remember what I was going to say. Maybe I'll record something else, maybe I won't in the last second or two of this time, or 20, because I tend to go on tangents. Let me just say one more time thank you for listening. I deeply appreciate you and remember that you are loved Because, at the very least, I love you.