What Excites Us!

Episode 41: Jamie Cawelti of Sex Positive World

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Gwyn: This podcast is about sex and sexuality, so please only listen if you are an adult without kids or other ears around that cannot, or do not consent to sensitive language and content. Thanks.

[00:00:14] Jamie: So it's very empowering to then say, yeah, that's the political landscape. Yeah, that's the narrative. But for me, in my household and my community, This is the language, this is how we want the world to work. And that's how we clap back and make a much bigger change in the world

[00:00:46] Gwyn: Hello and welcome to What Excites Us, the podcast that discusses sex and sexuality, so that you will deeply and truly know that you, your interests and your sexual expressions are okay. My name is Gwyn Isaacs. I am a certified sex coach who has been professionally helping folks feel better in their sexual expressions since 2017.

[00:01:13] Gwyn: This episode is a conversation with Jamie Cawelti the Executive Director of Sex Positive World. We discuss the great mission this umbrella organization has to encourage support and foster sex positive communities around the world.

[00:01:30] Gwyn: They are a volunteer run nonprofit committed to changing societal ideas and values around sexuality through education and empowerment. Jamie who uses pronouns she and they, is the executive director of both Sex Positive World and Sex Positive Portland. She got started in community leadership in California in 2018. She is polyamorous, solo, poly, queer, and kinky with a love of shibari rope bondage. She leads discussion groups and classes on consent, pleasure, relationships of all sizes, orientations and dynamics.

[00:02:13] Gwyn: Quick note before we get started to tell you to stick around until the very, very end, I have a personal anecdote to share and I'm gonna play with this as a format piece. As you may have noticed, I've been playing with format a little bit here and there. I would love to hear any thoughts you have about that. Of course, I always want to hear your thoughts about the show. Speaking of which, let's get on with it.

[00:02:39] Gwyn: Thank you Jamie Cawelti for joining me. I'm super excited to learn about Sex Positive World.

[00:02:45] Jamie: Excellent. I could tell you all about it.

[00:02:48] Gwyn: Let's just start at the very beginning. What is Sex Positive World, and then what do you do there?

[00:02:53] Jamie: Sex Positive World is a nonprofit. We serve the whole world. Most of our work that we do is in the United States and Europe. What we do is we build sex positive community. So we give education that actually facilitates that. Teaching people about like how we should treat each other in a more consensual way, the way that our culture informs us to be very sex negative, the body shame, the fact that like we don't have. gender identity necessarily talked about where it becomes really contentious in this society.

[00:03:25] Jamie: So we create spaces to teach people about the history of sex positivity, how to set boundaries, how to have a safer sex talk, and then also the intersectionality of it all. Because the way that our dating lives and our sex lives and the way that we're approaching the world is completely different depending on who you are, where you grew up, what color your skin is, how much ability you have if you live with chronic disease, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:03:50] Jamie: So really creating this intersectional approach to sex positivity. On top of filling that gap of like, what is consent culture, what is a good sex education? Because most of us just received this, harm reduction version of sex ed. It was like about pregnancy and STIs and that's it. So we wanna talk about pleasure, we wanna talk about consent, and we wanna make space for people that have that growth and to do that in community with other people.

[00:04:18] Jamie: What I do as executive director is, a million, billion micro jobs for starters. So I am a facilitator for the classes I just described. I book speakers to come in and talk on different sex positive topics and I'm currently working on taking those classes we do and turning them into videos so people have access to them anytime.

[00:04:40] Jamie: Cuz right now they're live offerings. So everything is about creating the sustainability around those pieces I just talked about, about how do you build community and then also creating that education piece. So I'm doing a lot of work between, Portland, Seattle, and Los Angeles currently helping those local chapters because we do have local chapters that get started.

[00:05:00] Jamie: We have a handbook if you are so interested in starting your own sex positive community and uh, providing mentorship. Cause I've been doing this about, uh, Almost six years. So I have learned a lot of lessons along the way and I really enjoy helping people to create that because it's just been so empowering and just a beautiful thing to see people connect.

[00:05:21] Jamie: There's just a lot of hunger for people to connect in that way and get that bigger picture of what is sexuality. Cuz we have a script in our culture that says it works one kind of way, it's heterosexual, it is based on Christian values and it is about getting to penetration. And that's what real sex is.

[00:05:41] Jamie: And I do not agree with that story at all. It leaves out so many voices, it leaves out queerness, it leaves out pleasure, it leaves out the joy of cuddling and nurturance about massage and healing and the many ways that we can connect with each other. So I am about expanding those ideas about what is pleasure.

[00:06:01] Gwyn: Yes. Wow. No. Small task that you're endeavoring.

[00:06:07] Jamie: That's more fun.

[00:06:08] Gwyn: Yeah. And so you have chapters all over the states and you in Europe too. Is that true?

[00:06:17] Jamie: Yeah, we have a chapter in Belgium. We've had one in London in the past, and, uh, some folks in South America have flirted with the idea. So you just kind of put it out there and see who's really got the time and the drive to wanna do it.

[00:06:30] Gwyn: Yeah, that makes sense. I was a little bit shocked to see that there wasn't one here in New York City, it seems.

[00:06:37] Jamie: not yet. That's super common actually in big cities you'll have support centers for queer services like peer support groups or, STI and HIV prevention. Then you also have uh, play parties or kink focused events and things that are very much like sex possible parties.

[00:06:59] Jamie: And there's not a lot of constraint a lot of rules in place. There's not that interactive piece where you really know who's in the room. And that's really what makes what we do unique and different. Because we have core classes we call 'em orientation, awesome boundaries, sexy intersections and the pleasure talk, gets us all speaking the same language, and then we can be a lot more explicit about what we're getting into. And that's what creates the community aspect of it. So there might be services in all kinds of places, but this idea of building community is what really makes what we do unique and special.

[00:07:32] Gwyn: Yeah, absolutely. What is the physical space like?

[00:07:36] Jamie: Well, I'm gonna start by saying physical property is expensive. We are a very new nonprofit and, uh, I'm working on, cash flowing what we do so that we can have physical locations. Sex positive world we do everything virtually online except for two events a year. Yeah, but it's mostly online and a lot of our classes do actually have a lot of interaction. I also mentioned helping local chapters. So here in Portland, we meet at a number of locations. We have yoga studios, we'll meet at the library, we'll meet in people's homes. The Los Angeles chapter, same idea, same in Seattle.

[00:08:11] Jamie: We worked with the Center for Sex Positive Culture to get into Galleria Rado, which is a Pioneer Square up in Seattle. So we work with what's already around because that sense of community, I think, comes out a lot better when people are willing to do this in their homes or if there's like a community room that they have in their apartment complex.

[00:08:30] Jamie: Um, here in Portland, we had a physical location, pre pandemic, and our goal is to do that again, but again, physical property, much more expensive than Zoom.

[00:08:41] Gwyn: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And then, so if a lot of this stuff is online, how are the separate chapters working individually and together?

[00:08:50] Jamie: So we offer those four core classes. That's one of our like core components to actually being a chapter because everything we do is meant to be shared. We don't copyright our intellectual property. So if people wanna have a chapter, we recommend that they offer those classes. So we also offer those online so it can be like an equivalency.

[00:09:09] Jamie: If you're a member of, say, the Portland chapter though, you actually can meet in person. We use a system called the Level System, and I know it's, it sounds kind of gross and hierarchical, right? We're working on it. But the level system is really just about labeling a thing to say, this event is a cuddle.

[00:09:26] Jamie: It's not sex possible. We're not getting naked. It is a cuddle. This is an event where we might be getting naked. It's getting juicy and sexy, but it's not a place where we're gonna have to have a safer sex talk cause there's no fluid exchange. We're not driving for orgasm, we're driving for pleasure.

[00:09:42] Jamie: Um, those are our level three events. And then sex possible events as well that are level four. That really creates the safe container for knowing what you're getting into. And a lot of space really for people to heal from trauma around sex or not being heard when they said no in the past, or feeling locked up, like they couldn't even speak up.

[00:10:01] Jamie: So it lowers the stakes and creates a safe environment. So here we have events, I mean, Three days a week or more. Uh, it becomes a friends group. You, you know, have these online communities also, like you make a lot of friends in this process that are also sex positive. Or if you are polyamorous or you're kinky, it creates a space to have those platonic connections as well because you're gonna face different issues in your relationships that folks that are not kinky or monogamous, are gonna have this layer of learning.

[00:10:31] Jamie: And not have that internal emotional impact of understanding what it's like to be in those dynamics. So if you're in a place that has a chapter, there's physical places to go meet people to actually cuddle, to actually practicing, no, to negotiate, to bring in sex educators and actually have the hands-on experience, which I think is the most valuable experience that you can have with this.

[00:10:56] Jamie: But we use that basically to help stitch the chapters together so we have this common language with each other. That's how we do Convergence as well. We offer those classes as well as others. So if you're already familiar, you can go to, you know, like we have like poly calendaring stuff that's very like heady discussion based or, you know, like Ecos Sex is one where we talk about like, what if it wasn't Mother earth? What if it was lover earth? And really play with that energy and play with nature. And other things are like big massage events that are really juicy and fun and it lets us really explore all of those pieces in a physical space. But that's once a year. That's a big old event that goes all weekend long.

[00:11:36] Gwyn: Gotcha. That's the con that happens for all the peoples to come together,

[00:11:41] Jamie: Yeah. In the past we've also hosted one called Poly Topia, and we're talking about potentially doing that in the future. So we wanna do more of those convergence style events where we bring lots of people together from our chapters or people who are very open to it.

[00:11:56] Gwyn: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And are you coordinating, chatting with other chapter leaders on a regular basis to figure out what everybody's offering? You've mentioned the four core classes and we'll dive more into those in a minute, but just trying to figure out how it all works.

[00:12:13] Jamie: Yeah, we, we had like a chapter in North Carolina, they did a class on sex and aging and they offer that over zoom. So we offer that to all of our chapters. We have monthly leadership calls where anybody can dial in and we can talk about issues that come up. Cause common issues that we all are gonna face.

[00:12:31] Jamie: How do you find venues that are open to people getting naked there? Totally a common problem. You know, somebody was creepy. And you go, okay, well how do we deal with creepy as opposed to when somebody actually, violates consent. How do we actually hold that person accountable in a way that allows them to learn to do better? And if they will not listen. How do we deal with the fact that we don't want them at our events? Then? So we, um, connect the chapters in a lot of ways. The ones that are just a cuddle puddle and it's happening in Los Angeles there's not a way necessarily to connect that with others.

[00:13:03] Jamie: But we have, scripts that we use to help facilitators to actually create those safer spaces and, uh, practicing no and the right answer that we could right answer I don't like right answer. The answer We practice is thank you for taking care of yourself. So you're just really creating this culture of consent.

[00:13:23] Gwyn: Yeah. And do you guys also subscribe to a restorative justice model when it comes to creepers or folks who have done not actual harm, but veering close to harm?

[00:13:36] Jamie: Yes, we absolutely do. We teach a class called Awesome Boundaries. I think that's really the one that delves into that the most. Talking at the fact that like your experience and my experience at the same event might be different. When something does happen that the person who feels as though or actually was violated for one speaks up because I, as a leader, am not in your head.

[00:13:58] Jamie: I do not know if you don't say anything, and that they feel as though they can speak up. We also have, people who sit and like care and concerns committees so that if something goes beyond that one-on-one conversation or someone will not acknowledge the harm that was done, that there is an accountability process.

[00:14:17] Jamie: So there are people in place to actually hold that accountability and it's never, you are terrible. You are a consent vio.... You, you, you, you, you. It is, this happened, this was the impact. So we need to work on this. And then also by using that level system, I mentioned, once you take those classes, you don't have access to everything all at once.

[00:14:37] Jamie: Instead, it lets you slowly get to know people. So we also have this familiarity piece where, we're friends with each other cuz you know, sometimes you'll go and it's like if you wanna go to a sex party, those exist. You can pay a fee and show up and bad things happen and people may or may not be held accountable.

[00:14:55] Jamie: We're very much about the accountability and the fact that we're all learning. We've all been socialized to think a certain kind of way about sexuality, about what people want. We play archetypes. A lot of those of us who are socialized as girls are taught to be agreeable. We're taught to be coy. We're taught not to say no. That creates issues.

[00:15:15] Jamie: Young boys that are socialized to be young boys are taught to be more aggressive to go after the coitus, to not accept a no, to push on it. So we're actually retraining people to listen to the no, to ask for what they want to be direct. So as you can imagine, we don't always communicate perfectly.

[00:15:35] Jamie: So we anticipate that and really try to help find ways that make everything fit well together. And, you get lots of advice from other places as well when things are not working. And even outside mediation, if that's necessary, because kicking people out at the first sign of danger has never sat well with me.

[00:15:54] Gwyn: Yeah. But it is, something that happens again and again and again without giving anybody a chance to learn and grow. So, I appreciate the awareness and, the way that you're handling it, cuz as, especially in where we are now in society where everybody is so quick to judge, to blame, to, discount, to just push away, anything that is not the way that they want it to be.

[00:16:20] Gwyn: And, You know, we're just, social media, tv, everybody, everything is trying to pit us against each other. And so finding little ways to undo that is wonderful. And when you teach that in a specific way, you know the difference between impact versus intent, then somebody can take that to other parts of their lives.

[00:16:41] Jamie: A hundred percent. Absolutely. Yeah. I've totally experienced that. I mentioned socialization earlier of like, what does it mean to be a good woman? You know, we're taught that, and it's like for me, like we didn't talk about the fact that non-binary people exist and trans people exist, and gender expansion and the idea of what is a woman is something we invented. So there's also this space of what does that even mean? What do I actually desire? And then the feelings that come up with that. So I really enjoy deconstructing those ideas.

[00:17:14] Gwyn: Yeah, I'm so grateful. Basically you know, women's studies was, It felt very burgeoning when I was going to college that it was a new thing that we were actually exploring the concept of, gender studies. And, you know, where we are now, many years later. Still new and exciting, but it's being, met with such unhappy repercussions. It's really heartbreaking.

[00:17:43] Jamie: Yeah, I, I've noticed that there's this narrative around like the politics of the thing about forcing people into a box. And I'm like, that's literally already happening. People are already forced in. The box is you pick male or female and it better be the one you're assigned at birth. And there are so many people suffering and being harmed by that, or, frankly, like tortured.

[00:18:06] Jamie: And I think that's really disgusting and I think that we can do better. And to call that something that's political and not personal is demonstrative. It really, it takes people and turns them into a thing. And people are not things unless, you know, that's their kink. And they'll, tell you, you don't tell them.

[00:18:23] Gwyn: Right. And it's so frustrating, frankly, to witness this. So to see groups and organizations coming up and being like, hold on. Let's tackle this piece of it. Let's talk about what it actually means to get through something that's uncomfortable.

[00:18:45] Jamie: Yeah, we live in this culture, right? Where, everything's going to shit. I mean, the world's on fire. Racism is getting this big backlash of, problems, the political landscape. We're in this world of everything going wrong. And this question comes up of like, so what are all the problems?

[00:19:03] Jamie: And we could list problems and problems and problems and problems. The thing that we do with Sex Positive World is we say, this is how we can do better. This is how we will treat each other to make the world a better place. And it actually has a spiraling effect on all of those other aspects of our lives.

[00:19:19] Jamie: So it's very empowering to then say, yeah, that's the political landscape. Yeah, that's the narrative. But for me, in my household and my community, This is the language, this is how we want the world to work. And that's how we clap back and make a much bigger change in the world because it's getting away from the power of things.

[00:19:38] Jamie: The reality is like, the larger systems are not working for those who are the most marginalized. It's working for systems of power that are already in place. This is how we build something better. I really believe that people need space for that healing so that they can be more effective in the world.

[00:19:56] Jamie: Like if you care about these larger issues, if you're someone who has seen the issues in the world and wants to do something about it, it is. Overwhelming to try and choose a thing to go after. And a lot of people, myself included, um, that sexual repression was a huge part of it. I was totally disabled by my Christian upbringing.

[00:20:18] Jamie: I could not talk about what was pleasurable. It locked me up. I, I literally would just freeze. I'd have that freeze response. And when I started dating, I started fawning because I wanted to impress, I wanted to get approval. Those were not true to my identity. The things that I wanted were unacceptable.

[00:20:37] Jamie: Things like being a teenager that felt hypersexual. There wasn't space for that. Or feeling like I don't really feel super girly and when I do the girly thing, it feels like performance and the fact that I did not have space to have those thoughts or language for them. So sex positivity really unlocked a lot of my personal power to actually do things in the world.

[00:21:00] Jamie: So this has been really therapeutic for me personally. And then to see others finding their voice for the first time or saying no. Or a lot of, people are hurt by masculine men. They come to a cuddle and it's like they can reconnect. So by creating these low stakes environments for like, cuddling, and you can cuddle with a man who is listening to your noes and you can be in the moment in your body embodied, it really creates space to heal from that and start claiming that power again. So I really see this as a path to personal empowerment and changing the world.

[00:21:34] Gwyn: Yes, 100%. Something that you said struck me as something that I fully believe, which is that, you know, we can't fix everything. One person, one organization, one whatever, can't deal with everything from, nuclear issues to not being okay with polyamory. And to find the thing that lights you up, that you can work for positive change and whatever that looks like is, I think, the way that we're gonna get better as a society in general.

[00:22:06] Jamie: Yeah, this was a huge one for me. I'm the youngest of five girls. I think I'm the one who's the most embraced any kind of queerness, you know, for me, it's very much in my gender expression. It's also who I'm attracted to in the types of relationships I'm attracted to. So, um, yeah, this became my work cuz it's my wound, honestly.

[00:22:26] Jamie: I say this in our boundaries class. It is absolutely my favorite class to teach because I believe we're called to teach that which we need to learn the most ourselves, which might say a lot about me and boundaries. Growing up in a house, we were very indirect communicators, passive aggressive, finding myself in a relationship that was emotionally abusive, physically abusive, those are things that I learned were okay and normal and that's not okay. And I'm very pissed off about it and that's why I do this work.

[00:22:56] Gwyn: Yeah, well, More power to you! So tell me about the orientation classes.

[00:23:02] Jamie: We call 'em the core classes cuz the first one is an orientation. And I've talked a lot about what we talked about in that class, but history of sex positivity, um, we practice saying no, um, I just talked about earlier is like, it's, it's being cool when someone tells you no, instead of being defensive and like, why, why are you telling me no, do you not like me?

[00:23:21] Jamie: Which creates a culture of it's not okay to say no. Uh, We practice a negotiation. We talk about our level system, which, again is more about defining what an event is that that was life changing for me. Going to like cuddle events and realizing I did not have to have the sex in order to get human connection. Cuz we live in a very touched, starved culture and you get so many benefits, like just oxytocin, dopamine, serotonin, just from having physical contact.

[00:23:48] Jamie: Even a long hug can make you feel so much better because at the end of the day what you're feeling is all that really matters. Because that's your experience. Okay. That's Orientation. Um, the next one's Awesome Boundaries. I talked a bit about this one too. This is about the culture. It's about the larger picture of how our boundaries get pushed on.

[00:24:07] Jamie: Or even like when you're a kid and it's like, you know, you hug your uncle and you're like, I don't wanna hug my uncle. He smells funny, or something worse maybe in your history. But you know, we have this attitude that children don't have autonomy. So we make them do those things. And of course, sometimes as a parent, yeah, you have to like force your kid to brush your teeth.

[00:24:27] Jamie: I get it. You are also their authority figure. But like giving them autonomy around what touch is okay. Does make a huge impact later in life for what they feel like they can say yes or no to in relationships or with their boss or in spaces where they're actually being manipulated. That's Awesome Boundaries. One of my favorite classes that we teach, um, we talk a lot about culture. We talk about the seduction game, for example, the Pepe Lapew of this is how we condition people. I like that one a lot.

[00:24:56] Jamie: I'll talk about Sexy Intersections, which is really about how our identities inform how we feel about ourselves, how we feel about relationships and dating. That the experience that I'm having as a femme presenting person who's fairly attractive, is very different from somebody who's maybe having life in a wheelchair. And how we interact with each other affects those pieces. It also deals with issues of racism or gender issues like, when somebody is frustrated that you have misgendered them.

[00:25:31] Jamie: Are you responding in a way that is kind and curious? Or are you defensive and upset? We oftentimes talk about this phrase of like, spinach in your teeth. Say like, you say a thing that's racist. Well, that doesn't mean you are racist. It means we live in a culture that taught you to do that.

[00:25:48] Jamie: So when someone is nice enough to speak up and say, Hey, that's racist and not cool, we then say, it's like you have spinach in your teeth. The response to being told you have spinach in your teeth is not, how dare you? Are you calling me unhygienic? You know, to come back and be defensive?

[00:26:05] Jamie: How dare you? That's the same concept behind racism or misgendering or what have you. To instead say, oh, where is it? Try and get it. And more importantly, did I get it? So we, uh, also practiced this phrase, when somebody calls you in for saying or doing something that's a problem that really honestly harms or violates someone's consent or objectifies them, makes them very uncomfortable, to say thank you.

[00:26:33] Jamie: Thank you for letting me know I did that thing. Thank you for helping me to grow. Because I think most of us don't actually wanna harm people, but as we've talked about, we live in a culture that teaches us to harm each other or to not have language around how to do better. So that's Sexy Intersections.

[00:26:49] Jamie: And that one can be a little bit of a rough ride, but trust me, you can get through it. And then we also have The Pleasure Talk, which we've also been talking a lot about. And we break it into three pieces. The first one is about connection.

[00:27:03] Jamie: So what kind of connection are we trying to have when we say sex? Is your version of sex the same as my version of sex? What do I need to actually feel good? There's kind of this thing of like, if you talk about the sex, it takes the mystery out of it. The thing is, if you do not enjoy certain things, are there certain things you really do enjoy and you feel like you can't talk about those how are you ever gonna get them?

[00:27:26] Jamie: Like for me, I've got a certain amount of hopping bunny energy, I kind of go from thing to thing. I hate to use the word ADHD cuz I'm not diagnosed, but I've got high anxiety, and I'm very easily distracted. So things like for me to experience a good connection that's pleasurable, I really need people tuned in to be with me, to not be on their phone.

[00:27:44] Jamie: I enjoy kinky connections and if we don't talk about it, how do we know that's on the table or not? Or maybe you discover you both have chemistry, but one of you, like maybe you're both dominant, that might not play out well if you wanna get into sexy, juicy spaces with each other. So we start with just connection.

[00:28:04] Jamie: After connection comes the safety piece. And yes, talking about STIs is part of safety. Absolutely. We talk about frequency of testing. The fact that the CDC doesn't have anything really for those who are more promiscuous. Who have more than, I think it's three sexual partners, which feels very low and one way of thinking that relationships are about monogamy and not having multiple partners.

[00:28:30] Jamie: You know, just these little things our culture teaches us. We also talked about emotional safety, trauma triggers. What are those safeties or, you know, there's language people don't want to hear. I'm in a relationship that, is like a Big little relationship and that can be very triggering and yucky to people.

[00:28:49] Jamie: So you don't wanna surprise somebody by using cute pet name and have them be like, Ew, gross. How dare you. So safety is a big piece. Um, we also talk about our attitude around STIs. Things like, if you're exposed to an STI does not mean you automatically have it.

[00:29:06] Jamie: People get tested say things like, I'm clean, which is kind of implying that if you have an STI you're dirty and that doesn't feel good. So we talk about language, like using medical language. I'm a person who lives with an STI I have genital herpes HSV 2. The test, not super accurate. The culture around it is so shameful.

[00:29:27] Jamie: I know someone who has a nonprofit about suicide prevention just around herpes. And because it's not life threatening, it also doesn't get recognized as much. So there's like rejection that happens as well. So that's an emotional piece for me where I'm like, I face rejection around this, so I have lots of thoughts and feelings and patterns around this.

[00:29:47] Jamie: And the last one is about pleasure. What is actually pleasurable? I don't wanna just fuck around and find out. I wanna know what feels pleasurable. I know for me, I really love physical touch and cuddling. And I like that cuddles can be both sexual and non-sexual. I like laying naked with my partner.

[00:30:07] Jamie: I like music. I like low lighting. These are things that make me feel really good. I don't want to dive into all of the problems of the day in the same sexy space, like having these conversations is really helpful. Or if you're someone who really would prefer to be doing something kinky, what would make that fun for you?

[00:30:26] Jamie: Like, are you someone who enjoys being tied up or spanked or like pulling out all of your cool kink tools? Or is all of that gonna be a big turnoff for you? Like we talked about, like what are the buzzkills, what are the non-verbals people can look for and actually host events also, like, go deeper into that around like writing your own user manual.

[00:30:47] Jamie: Or, I'm gonna totally plug maketimeforthetalk.com because you can get a cool workbook. It's like 20 pages. I actually did a video of myself doing it that walked through all of those little pieces. So helpful. Even if you're monogamous and have been with the same person forever, it opens up space to talk about the ways you might wanna play with each other that you hadn't thought about before.

[00:31:10] Jamie: So long explanation. That's all four classes.

[00:31:14] Gwyn: So I have two things. Is the make space for the talk, is that like a yes no, maybe list,

[00:31:20] Jamie: Make time for the talk is Dr. Decker's website. She has the stars talk, which is about STI status, turn-ons, avoids, relationship intentions and STI etiquette. It's got some yes no maybe lists. It also has things like what are my expectations around STI testing frequency?

[00:31:40] Jamie: Is it when we're adding a new partner? Do we just do it every six months for safety? What makes me feel safe enough to go play with others? What level of fluid exchange might be okay. And then also things like, how do we talk about, like there's a lot of people with penises that have erectile dysfunction, especially over 40. It is so common and so stigmatized there is so much shame around that. Things like that are also included medications or like you need lubrication. It's extremely expansive.

[00:32:12] Gwyn: That's amazing and it's a little shocking that I haven't heard of it, but I, I love it. I'm absolutely gonna add it to my resources list. The other thing that I wanna just quick touch on is that 70 to 85% of people have herpes, whether they are a carrier or get the actual symptoms. But so many people test positive for it, that it's ridiculous the amount of stigma that we still have because it's really, it's like 15% of the people don't test positive for it,

[00:32:43] Jamie: So most doctors will not test for it these days. Because the stigma is so high and the mental health impacts are so huge and it's like, I don't wanna say it's not a big deal. It's a big deal to have a disease. I get it. And the test produces false positives all the time. There's one place in Washington that does a test called the Western Blot Test. It is literally the only standard you have to pay for it outta pocket. So you need some privilege to make that happen.

[00:33:10] Jamie: But I've said left, right, and center. I will tell people I'm positive even if I came up negative on that test, because it tells me a lot about that person's maturity level. If they have actually taken the time to look into this at all, like Planned Parenthood incredible resources around STIs, it's free. It's on YouTube. Go watch it. And if your reaction is to freak out or, oh no, oh my God, does that mean I can catch it? I'm like, Ooh, here's a person who really doesn't understand risk and has never thought about it before. And, um, I might not want to be playing with that person then.

[00:33:45] Gwyn: Yeah, I've known people who are like, that's my biggest fear is getting herpes. I'm like, really? That's your biggest fear not being held hostage in a bodega. Not like, you know, crossing a bridge and having it collapse. That's one of mine. but herpes, it's fucking manageable.

[00:34:03] Jamie: And it can be low impact. You can live with no symptoms and still test positive like so much in life. I came up positive for chlamydia on a test and that was also treated with a lot of like, oh my God, what? And I'm like, it antibiotics. It was gone.

[00:34:18] Gwyn: Yeah. We don't live in the 18 hundreds. We're not gonna get scurvy, chlamydia, gonorrhea. It's the clap is not gonna kill you.

[00:34:28] Jamie: Yeah. Well, and you think also like, so I got herpes, right? And my, my first thinking is like, my sex life is over. I can't date anymore. Now I have to inform people and I've got that mark on me. Ew. Gross. Uh, you know what, I also sometimes get a cold and we don't go around trying to figure out who gave it to me.

[00:34:48] Jamie: I just rest and I get over it. So STIs end up in this strange category that also comes with shame. It has to come with this story about what type of person you are and, ooh, you're doing all this risky stuff, but it's, you know what? Life comes with risk. Nothing's a hundred percent safe, and you don't go on that kind of hunt for other things in life. So it's like taking away that story behind it also is a big part of what we do.

[00:35:16] Gwyn: Yeah.

[00:35:18] Gwyn: you know, frequently when I tell people what I do for a living, they ask for a hot sex tip. So what I say, not really knowing them or any of their situations is that most sexual issues can be helped with more and better conversation, or lube or both. Now, conversation is really on you, although I can help you if you'd like me to. I do that as a coach.

[00:35:45] Gwyn: But when it comes to lube, there are two brands that I always reach for first. Uberlube is my go-to silicone lube. It's pure. It's not full of any unnecessary additives that make it smell, taste, or feel, unlike you me. It comes in a beautiful glass bottle that I'm happy to have on my nightstand, and it's great in most situations.

[00:36:12] Gwyn: However, if you prefer a water-based lube or have some other intimate needs, I recommend Good, Clean Love. They have a variety of great products to help everything in the bedroom goes smoothly, huh.

[00:36:27] Gwyn: They've got some vaginal care kits, some cleaning solutions, oils and candles. It's really great. Now you can find an affiliate link for these at the podcast's website whatexcitesus.com. And to be clear, you do help me out when you buy through these links, but I specifically reached out to these companies because I truly love their products and I believe in what they're doing.

[00:36:53] Gwyn: So help yourself. Help me help these lovely companies and get better sex with better lube. Go visit the links for UberLube and Good, Clean Love at whatexcitesus.com.

[00:37:07] Gwyn: I love that you guys are talking about intersectionality in a really, hands-on kind of way, because we can say the word and it feels, you know, big and intellectual and scary, but it's not. Everybody has a whole bunch of different intersections that they can fit into, but we don't think about it in that way. And so I love the way that you guys are putting it out.

[00:37:31] Jamie: Yeah. I tend to think of it also as a continuation of the consent conversation. Because we're constantly evolving and our culture changes, right? So we could start with things like women demanding the right to vote and feminism and everything that came with feminism. Well, that was part of consent, was to speak truth, to power, to say, we also are here and we want power, especially if we're joining the workforce and taking on more responsibility.

[00:37:57] Jamie: I mean, it was wrong on the face of it, but we had to fight for it. Okay, so you have feminism. Well then come a little further down. I talked about the AIDS epidemic earlier. Well, it wasn't just gay men. You think about like the movement with lesbians, and all of the marches that happened there and the fight for queer rights, and now it's transgender rights.

[00:38:16] Jamie: Well actually that's not, now it's just back again, fighting for transgender rights. So doing the anti-racism work is the next step in consent to say it is time to take a really hard look at this and we can do better. We've done better with women, we've done better with queer issues. Let's do better with race issues.

[00:38:34] Gwyn: Yeah. and those pieces, the other pieces also still need work. So let's continue

[00:38:39] Gwyn: to do this.

[00:38:39] Jamie: percent,

[00:38:40] Gwyn: All of this together because that's actually how humans are. We are not tiny puzzle pieces. We contain multitudes in every breath.

[00:38:51] Jamie: Yeah.

[00:38:51] Gwyn: Yeah. Um, What other sorts of events do you guys do?

[00:38:56] Jamie: Yeah, other classes that we offer change over time, basically. I've brought in speakers. I mentioned like bringing, uh, in the de-stigmatizing STIs class. we've had Marlo Rainey Stewart come in, do a class on like Outer Course, Dirty Talk. We had a class by Lady Vivas, who's a transgender woman and someone that she works with who's Trans Masc and they did a class called Gender Affirming Intimacy.

[00:39:21] Jamie: That was all about how we interact with, trans bodies. And also it was like, how do we affirm or create euphoria around our gender identity, which I found really interesting. Also, just someone who's non-binary. So different sex positive concepts. We've done one on like sex positive parenting. We've had anti-racism challenges where we're looking at media around sex positivity and anti-racism work.

[00:39:48] Jamie: You know, books like Love's Not Color Blind, for example. I've done several book clubs because there are so many books on sex positivity we started with the pandemic, like the Ethical Slut, or Pleasure Activism, or Good Sex. So different sex positive topics, and then also sexy events.

[00:40:07] Jamie: Also, like we've had sexy game night, we have had, uh, scavenger hunts with sex positive, comedians. I think Andrea Allen, , she has a bunch of podcasts that she does. So we like partnering with people to create some of these experiences. And the sexy parties that we created during the pandemic were surprisingly connective and really fun. We've done things like where we have kitty cat play or we had to do a class on twerking and dancing, so all kinds of different things. The offerings change. The core classes stay the same, but the offerings of the classes or social events do change over time.

[00:40:45] Gwyn: If someone is not near a local place, how do they join? Can they join? Can they be a member? how does that work?

[00:40:51] Jamie: They can absolutely come to the classes that we do with Sex Positive World. We do hold that space. Something I do is I actually help people start their own communities. So if you are a stubborn organizer type like me, you can work with me directly. I have got a handbook on how to get started, common issues that come up.

[00:41:13] Jamie: So sometimes people actually wanna start their own groups or they'll take pieces of what we do and implement it into other groups that already exist. Like if there's a kink group to find space to be more about sex positivity and expansion there. Yeah, joining our online community, which we have like a private Facebook group, I'm working on implementing more social aspects to our website also, so people can connect there.

[00:41:38] Jamie: So that's kind of the main two ways is like either by starting your own chapter and creating your events, which people do. I've been doing it. I think it's really fun and I really enjoy the social aspect of creating cuddle events as opposed to just like having alcohol based events, which is a lot of what people do. And then the online community. That's a lot of how we connect right now.

[00:42:00] Jamie: I should say a little bit about the history of sex positive world. So we officially started in 2009. Our founder's name is Gabriela Cordova, who is now in permaculture, but also in like the relationship of sex positivity to permaculture.

[00:42:15] Jamie: And she has a farm called Three Goats Farm and that's where she's put her time and effort. Because, we incorporated into a nonprofit in 2019. And then the pandemic began and Gabriela went well. I just got a farm that I'd much rather putting my time into and I do not know how you do sex positivity in a pandemic world where people can't touch each other. So they found some of us millennials who've been doing online community our whole lives and we're the ones who started implementing it into this online space. So we've really invented this along the way.

[00:42:49] Jamie: I say we, I've been a big mover in that, but also, um, Don Woodard, who's been part of our board since then, who really took a strong stance that we needed to be an anti-racism group. And you know, other board members as well, like Karen Harry and David Woody and James Brooks. I mean, you can go check out who's on our board. And we have a full advisory board also that helps us set the tone and direction of what we do. So we're actually effective at changing the story and also creating access for people who do not have access to these things.

[00:43:18] Jamie: Cuz the reality is if you're in a big city, you are gonna see more queer people, you're gonna see and hear really more measured responses to issues around race and consent and et cetera, et cetera, all those issues. If you're in the middle of a small red place, you may never hear about those things. So we wanna be an entry point where people can educate themselves and ask themselves the question of whether or not that fits for them.

[00:43:44] Gwyn: Yeah, I love that. So I know Gabrielle very, very briefly and we're Facebook friends, we had talked briefly about me starting one when I was in Vermont and I, it didn't happen, but that's fine. Such as life.

[00:43:57] Jamie: So I, got into this in 2018 and that came a couple years after leaving, a very abusive, physically abusive and emotionally abusive relationship. Doing a little bit of therapy on myself, numbing out with some drugs for a while.

[00:44:11] Jamie: And then I found SPLA it blew my mind. I hadn't, I hadn't talked about consent before. I hadn't like the cuddle puddle with something weirdos do, and now I'm doing it and I, I guess I'm one of these weirdos now. And then like really like owning and loving that identity.

[00:44:27] Jamie: So in 2018, I started running the chapter in my town of Ventura, called Sex Positive 805 cuz that's our area code and we're proud of it. And I also had people coming from all over the place. They were all going to LA to go to events, and I was like, we could have our own cuddles here in our own town.

[00:44:43] Jamie: So I started making space to do that and I really fell in love with it. My background's entirely in television and film and technology, so I've been telling stories and doing media for a long time and I, am very obsessed with the ideas of what stories do we tell because they inform how culture is formed and culture is like, it's how humans create stuff and it's why we're so powerful.

[00:45:08] Jamie: So I got really obsessed with it. And, um, joined the board of Sex Positive World. Like I said, in 2020 when the pandemic hit and it was like, we need young people who understand how this internet culture thing works. I stepped into being executive director and I went, I really just wanna do this now with my life.

[00:45:25] Jamie: This is all I wanna do is just help people start community, help people empower themselves, reclaim their bodies, reclaim their sexuality, figure out who they are. I am now fundraising to make that real. I've been able to go all in since October, so it's been less than a year and it's my full-time job now.

[00:45:45] Jamie: I just coach people through it, walk through issues, help with that restorative justice piece also. Just all the, little aspects of being community and creating community, and that's really what I love doing. So if I'm speaking to you and you just love what I'm doing, I would love if you just send a few bucks my way on our website, sexpositiveworld.org/donate in my commercial. [00:46:14] Gwyn: Well done. rock on. I grew up in radio and the last radio station that I worked for was a community radio station, so I am intimately familiar with throwing that pitch in.

[00:46:26] Jamie: Yeah. Well, I, I also had this thing of like, so I'm, I'm white, I'm from the suburbs. I come from middle class. Like I've, I've never been worried about not having housing. I, I've never been worried about not having dinner. I didn't know that that was what privilege is it sure as fuck is.

[00:46:43] Jamie: And, um, I don't have kids and I don't intend to have kids. So in, in acknowledging the amount of privilege I have, I was like, so what stops me from actually going all in? I can always drive Uber if I can't make ends meet. So I put this out there also to say, we also create a subscription model.

[00:46:59] Jamie: So people could actually give us like five bucks a month or 50 bucks a month, whatever their budget allows, that creates sustainability. What that means is that when I'm ready to quit or move on to the next thing, it becomes a competitive job. So, like when Gabriela left it created this vacuum of we need people with free time and resource and privilege.

[00:47:20] Jamie: So if we actually wanna change the story around sex positivity and really be all in and truthful to that intersectionality, it's in our best interest then to say the next executive director, now that it's a paid position ought to be somebody who represents more of those marginalized identities.

[00:47:35] Jamie: Whether that is around ability or color or gender identity. It means we can be really intentional about how we build future leadership. So that's a lot of what I'm obsessed with. And, I figure if I can create a career for a nonprofit with the word sex in the name Sex Positive World, I'll be fine.

[00:47:53] Jamie: I'll figure something else out. I'll make something else happen. But I love just building community. That's my favorite.

[00:47:59] Gwyn: Yeah. Well, and, when you get to that place, the right opportunity will appear and you'll be ready to move on. But at the moment, this is great that you're doing this cuz you clearly have the head for it and, you're on it. it's fantastic and it's so needed in this world. It's so needed. I really appreciate that you have that forward vision too, of like, this is what can happen when I'm done doing this. That's what makes a CEO right? Like that's being able to put on that type of visioning, future casting as it were. So, as we wrap up, is there anything that we haven't talked about that you wanna be sure that we do?

[00:48:37] Jamie: I think we've covered a lot of it. Our events are also, all on a sliding scale. You can always come to our events for free. If you have the resources to pay for them, that keeps our lights on, that keeps our website up. But I just wanna mention that because equity is important to us and people have self-selected in a way to maybe overpay for something if there's someone who happens to have the financial resources. And then it makes it so those of us who maybe don't have as much can still have access to that knowledge. So if you are interested in having access, go check us out.

[00:49:11] Gwyn: And where do we do that? [00:49:13] Jamie: You do that at sexpositiveworld.org.

[00:49:16] Gwyn: So I like to wrap up my episodes by asking one final question, which is what excites you?

[00:49:23] Jamie: What excites me is the amount of people that have come out of the isolation of the pandemic and want to start community because I came out of a place after being in abuse and then numbing out where I really needed human connection and it completely changed the course of my life in a really positive way.

[00:49:44] Jamie: I feel really good about the work that I do. I feel good in my body. I feel good about myself, and when I don't, I have community and I have tools to actually fix that to actually get back to a good place. So I'm really excited to see the amount of people who came out of pandemic and said, I want and need community.

[00:50:03] Jamie: I want and need to explore my sexuality. And to actually sit with that person in that process is what really excites me. I'm really excited about taking the sex positive movement and doing it at scale. So that is what I'm really into right now.

[00:50:20] Gwyn: Well, thank you so much, Jamie. This has been fantastic

[00:50:24] Jamie: thank you, Gwyn thanks for having me. And let me talk about my passion.

[00:50:34] Gwyn: I so appreciate Jamie Cawelti taking the time to talk with me and for the work that she is doing to foster healthy relationships around sex and sexuality throughout the world. What's an amazing mission? You can learn more about Sex Positive World and find out what classes are being offered right now, if there's a chapter near you and how to start one in your area, if there isn't all at sexpositiveworld.org, you could learn more about Jamie Cawelti, whose background is in communications, video production, and marketing by visiting her YouTube channel and or all the social media places where she is @ExploringJamie. And if you are not in a place to make note of that, you can always find all of this information in the show notes in the app that you're using. and at whatexcitesus.com.

[00:51:31] Gwyn: You know one of the nice things about having a page just for the podcast is so when you visit it, anytime you randomly think about it, which you can do at whatexcitesus.com, you'll find links to all the things that I talk to and about. For instance, there's a place where you can click a button to go rate and review in whatever apps you're using, which is so unbelievably helpful. It's really so unbelievably helpful if you can rate and review. You can also find all the past shows and all the past links in those show notes that are on those pages. You can join the Patreon. You could get some lube. You could gently stalk me. You know, all the stuff a person does on a website, which is whatexcitesus.com.

[00:52:22] Gwyn: What excites us is produced, edited, and hosted by me. I'm Gwyn Isaacs, our podcast host is tickle.life. All the music I use is under the Creative Commons attribution license.

[00:52:36] Gwyn: The opening song is The Vendetta by Steven Kartenberg and this is Quando by Julius H. So here's a little tidbit. I am really tired. I'm so tired. I'm so tired. I went to my first ever office party, like ever. I've never done a whole lot of offices and never been in ones that had parties. And the drinks at this party were so strong, and it was an open bar and it was delicious, and the food was amazing.

[00:53:07] Gwyn: Really a really good time. And then I underestimated my walk and I got off at the wrong stop thinking. I know where I am, I can get home. And then I underestimated how far it was and then. I walked in the wrong direction at first because I was tipsy and a little bit cocky, which really I should know better, but I guess that's where the tipsy comes in.

[00:53:32] Gwyn: Anyway, my legs still hurt and I didn't sleep well. So as soon as all of this is done, I'm crawling back into bed for, I don't know, I think the third time today. Good night all. Thanks for listening.