What Excites Us!

Ep. 62 - Exploring Psilocybin’s Healing Potential with Amory Jane

Transcript:

Ep 62 - Exploring Psilocybin's Healing Potential with Amory Jane

[00:00:00] Gwyn: This podcast is about sex and sexuality, so please only listen if you are an adult without kids or other ears around that cannot, or do not consent to sensitive language and content.

[00:00:22] Gwyn: Welcome to What Excites Us! My name is Gwyn Isaacs I am a certified sex coach who has been helping people professionally since 2017. Today we have a really exciting guest, Amory Jane. She is a powerhouse in the fields of sexuality, psychedelics and personal healing. As a seasoned sex educator with over 13 years of experience. She has traveled the country, teaching hundreds of workshops on sex and relationships. Her expertise has been featured in Playboy. BBC and on Fusion TV.

In addition to her work in sex education, Amory Jane is a licensed psychedelic facilitator. And the COO of fractal soul, a woman owned legal psilocybin service center based in Portland, Oregon. She's been deeply involved in Oregon's pioneering efforts to integrate psilocybin therapy. Thanks to measure 1 0 9. Her work focuses on harnessing the therapeutic potential of psilocybin, especially in the realm of sexuality and mental health.

She is also the creative force behind Amory design. A line of handcrafted wooden furniture. Designed with sex, positive ethos in mind. And a wonderful place to stash your sex toys. Whether she's guiding clients through transformative psilocybin journeys, teaching workshops, or a crafting beautiful functional art. Amory Jane is all about helping people embrace their authentic selves

in this episode, we dive into her journey from sex education, to psilocybin facilitation, explore the healing power of psychedelics, and discuss how overcoming shame can lead to a more fulfilling life. Stay tuned for a fascinating conversation on how psilocybin therapy can be a game changer for mental health, personal growth, and sexual wellness.

But really quickly before we head to the conversation, I do have a favor to ask. I know you hear this from all your podcasts. But if you can please take a moment to not only be sure that you are subscribed. But to also rate and review the show. I would be deeply deeply grateful. So much so that I will thank you personally here. And not only that. But if you reach out to me via email, I might even send you a present. It's that important. Because it helps people find the show. Which helps them feel better or learn more. And that makes the world a better place. It's so much winning for everyone. And right now, I think we can all agree. That we need a little more light. Okay. And enough of my begging. On with the show.

Welcome Amory Jane to What Excites Us.

[00:03:20] Amory Jane: Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

[00:03:23] Gwyn: I'm so excited about this topic, psilocybin and its potential uses in helping us in so many different ways, especially in sexuality. Like, what a thrilling thing. I'm so excited that Oregon has decided to move forward and it's legal where you are.

Amory Jane's Journey into Psilocybin

[00:03:44] Gwyn: Tell us a little bit about, let's just start with how did you get drawn into that?

[00:03:49] Amory Jane: Yeah, when Measure 109, which is the ballot measure that later ended up, um, making, um, psilocybin legal in a therapeutic setting. I was one of the people who signed the ballot when they came up to me on the street and was like, yeah, that sounds really exciting. Because I had had some of my own positive experiences with magic mushrooms.

And I thought, you know, if I had those experiences in a recreational setting, when I was like out camping in the woods, then I could really see how there could be potential. So I just initially was a supporter of it, but I have a background in marriage and couples and family counseling.

So I have a background in therapy, but kind of went down a different life path instead of being a therapist. I actually decided to be a sex educator because most of what it seemed like I was really good at helping people with were issues related to sexuality, gender, pleasure, authenticity, like this world that definitely was calling me was sex education. So I have been doing that for 13 years. Primarily working at a local sex toy boutique, um, running their classes, teaching classes. So I felt very fulfilled in that.

But my partner at the time, was really into psychedelic healing and psychedelic medicine. And we had done a couple of psilocybin journeys together and had really, just like fascinating conversations afterward. And I was helping them through a lot of things during our shared journeys. And they looked at me once and they're like, you have a gift for this. You, you really know how to hold space. Well, when people are in altered states.

And I said. Well, yeah, I've been a dungeon monitor. I've, like, been around people in all sorts of sexual scenarios at, you know, kink fests and all these other places where people get into non ordinary states of consciousness like subspace. And I did know how to hold space for people in altered states and also be really firm with boundaries. Really clear on expectations, intentions. Like, I already had so much overlap with being a sex educator that I said, you know what?

If you're applying for one of these facilitator programs, I'm going to apply with you. Let's do this together.

Training and Certification in Psilocybin Facilitation

[00:06:20] Amory Jane: So my partner, who, um, is my best friend and we've been best friends for a long time. We're best friends again. We went through this whole training program together. We were accepted into the first cohort in the United States for legal psilocybin facilitation with a school called Inner Trek.

And, uh, you know, it was there that I got a lot of learning both through the people who had been doing this professionally for years and also we did our own practicums, our own medicine journeys in places where it was legal. So I got to be on the other side the client multiple times during that process. And then after I graduated from that program, I applied for my license, I got it, so I got my license from the state, and then started touring around to the different, um, we call them service centers here, psilocybin service centers, which are the legal places where you can go to have these magic mushroom journeys.

So I was touring around and found a place called Fractal Soul that felt like home to me. And I've been now facilitating there and also working as the COO. Um, but I've been there for about a year. And the whole entire program, uh, Oregon Psilocybin Services, is really only a year and a half old. I think the first facilitator was licensed last summer, and I was licensed in the fall, one of the first 100 people.

So even though psychedelics are ancient medicines, they have been, psilocybin specifically has been with a lot of indigenous communities around the world for many, many, many years. So this is not new medicine, but this framework is brand new. It's a baby. It's a year and a half. And I say that because we, it is been a lot of learning already so far from within this industry. Yeah.

[00:08:12] Gwyn: Yeah, that's incredible. What a great story.

[00:08:15] Amory Jane: Thank you. It's been, it's been so cool to learn just how much my background in sex education has been helpful. And also, how much I needed. At first, I had a little bit of worry, that I wouldn't be accepted as a sex educator. Most other people who were getting these licenses were nurses, therapists, definitely a lot of therapists. Um, doctors, naturopathic, you know, and western medicine doctors, like, people who are all kind of in these helping professions that other people put that stamp of approval on.

And I felt a little bit like an outsider, but during the training program, not just mine, but hearing from other training programs, too. They'd get to the day where people were asking questions about, like, What happens when sexual energy arises in a session? Or, like, what do you do if you're attracted to a client? And then everyone just, like, shuts down and they're like, Uh, um, just don't have sex with your client. Okay, next topic.

You know, like, it was this really awkward energy. And, I don't know how, how much you're, like, know about the psychedelic renaissance of the 60s and the 70s. That seemed so promising in the way that this time seems promising, too. And one of the things that shut that down was sexual misconduct and abuses of power.

And I looked at what was happening amongst the people in this new industry and was like, no, no, no, this is not going to happen again. Sex educators need to be here because we have a lot of tools that could be useful around things like consent and strengthening your boundaries and how to hold space for other people's sexual energy without becoming involved in it, without shaming it.

So that part is exciting, from a personal, like, selfish perspective, that it feels good to belong and be needed in this industry. But also the more important part is just the healing potential of this, beautiful, powerful medicine.

Healing Experiences with Psilocybin

[00:10:13] Gwyn: You mentioned that you've done psilocybin and had, personal healing. Have you had personal sexual or sexuality or something regarding your body healing with the medicine?

[00:10:26] Amory Jane: Yes. Multiple ways multiple ways. I don't even know where to begin with that. Maybe most recently, I had a journey, In the legal framework where I was a client, I like staying in touch with the client experience of this work. And I have chronic pain, which is sometimes relates to sexual pain as well. And I have an autoimmune disorder that often has my body attacking itself. So I get a lot of things like, vaginal infections, UTIs, yeast infections, BV, and like, just couldn't figure out the root cause. Like, why does this keep happening?

And I did a medicine journey that was just focused on me trying to understand the root causes of my health problems. And sure enough, this conversation between, um, my own internal wisdom, my own healer, and the medicine, I figured out what to take to my doctor. I was like, hey, I think I might know what's going on with me. I didn't tell her. It's cause I had this, uh, come to me in a psychedelic vision, because then she probably wouldn't have taken me seriously. But I was like, you know, I've been really feeling into my body, which was true, and I'm feeling like I need these kinds of tests run, and sure enough, I found out what the roots of my health problem were.

So that was really amazing to be able to have that clarity around, yeah, what's been ailing me for years. And I've been through a million different medical tests and blood work and, just kind of stuck in these cycles I didn't understand. And this mystery root cause could have been something I never would have even thought about had I not had a psychedelic journey that showed me.

[00:12:11] Gwyn: Absolutely incredible! Wow, that is so powerful. You said that there were so many other things. Is there anything else that's springing to mind that you want to tell us about?

[00:12:23] Amory Jane: Uh, you know, a lot of my queerness, um, my gender and sexuality being polyamorous, a lot of that was really clarified for me during Journeys, even if it wasn't part of my intention. My first journey, I was feeling guilty because I had cheated on a partner. And I was, like, coming to terms with, like, but I call myself a good person!

Like, how could I have done something like that? And, um, I realized that, like, my instinct to be with other people while I was partnered had a long history. I remember during my psychedelic journey being 13 and having, like, my first boyfriend. And being in love with my best friend, and being at my grandma's funeral, and having them both hold my hands at the funeral, and being like, Oh my gosh, I love both of them so much, and this is helping me through my grief.

And it just made me realize, like, I've been a polyamorous person my whole life. and I just had a lot of shame that was involved in that. But as soon as I embraced that, and found other people who are doing this and doing this ethically. I was able to tell my partner I want us to have an open relationship and was able to move through this in a consensual way and really just no longer be ashamed of being a person who has a big heart that loves multiple people and and You know, used to seek.

I'm actually in a monogamous stage right now, but for 20 years I was polyamorous and, think that that struggle in the beginning would have been a lot harder had I not gotten in touch with these kind of shadow parts of myself that I was able to work through with psilocybin.

[00:14:07] Gwyn: Yeah.

Understanding the Psilocybin Journey

[00:14:08] Gwyn: Can you walk us through what it's like going through a journey?

[00:14:14] Amory Jane: Yeah, um, you know, everybody's journeys are so different, um, but they tend to follow the same types of stages. So even though the visuals might be completely different, some people have more somatic experiences, like they feel more It more in their body or energetically. Some people feel like they're having conversations with parts of themselves.

Others are seeing a lot of visuals in their mind's eye. But they tend to be about 4 to 6 hours long for a macro dose. And that means not micro dosing, like a larger dose of mushrooms. So about 4 to 6 hours in length, um, you know, give or take an hour, depending on dose and your sensitivity, other medications you're on.

But, for the average person, it takes maybe about 20, sometimes 30 minutes to start feeling the medicine. And then this next stage we call onset, and for a lot of people, the onset stage, or when they first start feeling the medicine, is where they have you know, protector parts come up. Parts that get nervous or afraid, anxiety, you know, so for some people, this can be the hardest part of the journey, the place where they might need a little bit of help surrendering to the experience instead of trying to have 1 foot in an ordinary state of consciousness and one in a non ordinary state.

So, onset can, depending on the person, just take a few minutes. And for other people, it can be an extended time of trying to surrender into the experience. But I usually use the metaphor of a roller coaster here. So, you know, for some people, the roller coaster is like the kind where it just shoots you out at 120 miles an hour up into the air. And for others, it's this long, slow climb. But that onset stage is, if you are doing a long, slow climb, like when you get to the very top of the first hill before the drop, where it all starts being like, whoo!

So after the onset, when the medicine really is kicked in and people have both feet off the ground into this psychedelic realm, then we usually think of that as the peak part of the journey.

It can last, you know, usually an hour, maybe two hours. And the peak tends to be the most intense part in terms of visuals, you know, maybe feeling like a sense of time traveling, you know, again, it looks different for a lot of different people. And then after the peak phase, there tends to be this next phase, which I think the media kind of, uh, used a lot of tropes from this stage of a psychedelic journey, which is where people are like, Oh my gosh, we are all one. We're connected to this Earth, Mother Earth, our planet, you know? Like, where people get really, like, they connect to Earth, they connect to ancestor, they connect to spirit, something greater than themselves.

Or perhaps they have an ego disillusion, where they just feel, you know, like they are no longer themselves, as they've always known themselves. But perhaps they are merged with all of humanity, or the cosmos. Perhaps they feel like they literally die, you know, some people call it ego death, and it doesn't happen for everyone, and it doesn't happen in the same way, but usually around this time, there's more of something that's like, a connection to greater than yourself.

After that, people tend to get really reflective. So, this is where a lot of clarity comes up about like, why do I keep making these choices, or what is this life pattern about, or, Oh, this is who I really am. For me, this is the stage where I was like, Wait, is this, what's going on with me? This is something I need to bring to my doctor.

You know, a lot of clarity and wisdom comes up. As a facilitator on this side of the journey, this is the time where my clients usually get the most chatty, and they're sharing their brilliance, and I'm taking a lot of notes for them, for our integration.

And then, after the reflection phase, you know, that's when the medicine just starts to leave the system, so people are coming back more into a lucid state of consciousness. And that's where, you know, the end of your rollercoaster, both feet back on the ground. And in that time, most people feel very tired.

It's exhausting, even if all you're doing is laying in one spot for six hours. It is exhausting. It's a lot, to, you know, have your brain go through. It elevates your heart rate and your blood pressure temporarily. So it's like doing moderate exercise and emotionally, sometimes spiritually, mentally, it's a lot to go through a journey that you do lose track of time. It can feel like years have passed sometimes. Sometimes people might feel a bit melancholy that the experience is over, and other people feel better than they have in years.

Um, you know, it depends on the person, but usually if they had this launch experience and they had a, positive overall journey, most people feel pretty back to normal in terms of like physical body by the next day. They might be a little dehydrated if they didn't drink enough water, have a headache, something like that. But there aren't a lot of major side effects like there are with some of the other medications for most people.

[00:19:29] Gwyn: Yeah, as you were describing it, I have done this as well, not in a legal, facilitated setting, um, and yeah, I can identify each one of those phases.

The Role of a Psilocybin Facilitator

[00:19:40] Gwyn: Why would somebody choose to do it with you in a facilitated setting or with anybody in a facilitated setting? Having done it myself several times, I know that set and setting is important as.

[00:19:52] Amory Jane: Absolutely.

[00:19:53] Gwyn: Dr. Leary is to say, but it seems like you're providing a lot more than that. So tell us about your role and what the facilitation aspect is like

[00:20:03] Amory Jane: Yeah, so like you mentioned, set and setting. So that refers to the place where you're literally doing the mushrooms and then what your mindset is coming into it. And they say, you know, that can be a huge difference between a positive journey and a challenging journey. So facilitators can help people. Get into that right set, you know, the mindset, they can help them prepare mentally, emotionally, spiritually for their upcoming journey with exercises. Tools like breath work, things that you can do if you feel anxious or overwhelmed. Things that we can do together, ways I can support the client, um, whether that be through the support of therapeutic touch, whether that be through, like a reassuring presence, energetically, or words of encouragement.

Uh, you know, there's a lot of different ways facilitators can show support. And then having these journeys happening at licensed centers that are designed to hold space for this makes a big difference. We have buildings that are secure. We have someone at the front desk checking in to make sure nobody is coming into the space, bringing chaos energy. Everybody who's there is supposed to be there and will be the only people there during the day. And, you know, the center is set up with the right kind of lights, with music, you know, the bathrooms, and the ambience and hospitality that can really help people sink in.

You know, people on their own, not everybody has a space that would be appropriate. sure, you could do it in your own house, but like, are your pets going to freak out seeing you in an altered state? Are you going to be worried about them? Are you going to forget your intentions and start doing your laundry or scrolling on the internet? Cause you're in a familiar environment and you're like in these patterns. You know, getting outside of that can be helpful.

And also a lot of people are like, I want to be outside. I want to be in the woods. I get it. My first time doing psychedelics was in the woods, and there was a flash flood. And it ended up being terrifying because we were told we had to evacuate from the side of the mountain. In a service center, you don't have to worry about weather. You know, you don't have to worry about nature suddenly deciding to do a torrential downpour, or a bear coming onto your campsite while you're tripping balls. You know, like, it's a controlled environment.

And, one of the most important factors, too, is that we have tested product. We know there are manufacturers and testers that are built into this whole legal ecosystem and they will test the product for potency, make sure there are no contaminations or mold, so you're getting the highest quality mushrooms, possible, and you know exactly the dose that you are going to take. right now people are just kinda, you know, taking handfuls! Or they're doing it on like a kitchen scale, but that's a dried weight. That doesn't tell you the psilocybin or psilocybin content of the mushrooms. So we can really dial in the dose for people.

And, within this context too, there are people that can be consulted about your medications that you're on, and what should and should not, uh, you know, be mixed with psilocybin. What would be a red flag that could be a danger for you? Most of us are not medical professionals, but we have somebody on our team who is, and we have been through a training program enough to know what are the red flag things to look out for.

When someone does it in a recreational setting, If they are even researching, they're probably doing it on a place like Reddit. Which, again, I get that if there's not a lot of information out there, you get it where you can, but for people who maybe do have concerns about medications or mental health history, this just is a more safe and supportive way of doing it that is lower risk than someone doing it on their own.

And for many of my clients, they have tried doing it on their own, and they had protective parts of their personality, if you're into IFS parts work, we have these, like, protector parts, these manager, firefighter parts that come in, and they try to shut down the experience. When you're alone, especially, because they don't feel safe. When you're with a professional, they can help you surrender and feel safe and talk to those parts in a compassionate way. And even just that process can have healing potential there.

[00:24:37] Gwyn: Sure, I mean that makes a lot of sense because the protectors usually come from something and so they are here to protect from some past wrong in our lives. That feels normal. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me.

Setting Intentions and Integration

[00:24:52] Gwyn: You mentioned intention. Is there a pre game? I'm not really sure what the right wording would be, but what, but are people coming in and you're talking about stuff and setting intentions and going forward? What is that like?

[00:25:07] Amory Jane: Yeah, so it's a requirement, in order to access psilocybin services to have a preparation session and to have an intake session, you know, to go over the paperwork and the guidelines and the regulations and all of that really important stuff. And set up a safety plan and to talk about what is allowed in terms of the therapeutic touch. There are only certain zones that we're allowed to do that touch on. So we kind of cover all of that, the logistics and the legalities.

And then we have another session that really dives into, like, why are they doing this? What do they want to get out of it? What does it look like on the other side? What would success be? And then they create their intentions. Sometimes, you know, we help with clarifying, asking questions to really get those distilled, so that they're easy to remember during your journey.

A lot of people will write them down in their handwriting and kind of put it on an altar or bring it with them in a notebook so that throughout their journey, if they're, you know, like, why am I here? They look at it and can have that help inspire their journey. And it seems to be really, really helpful for people. You know, which is maybe a little different than people just kind of taking some shrooms and kicking back and enjoying the music and then like stuff starts coming up, you know, like it's a different environment.

When you do psilocybin in this way, I think there's an expectation that things are gonna come up, and that this time you face them. You face them with somebody by your side. I've had a lot of my clients, I tend to draw in many nerdy people, because I'm nerdy, and a lot of people who are like, so I'm basically Frodo, and you're my Samwise Gamgee. And I'm like, yeah, you're not going to that mountain alone, friend. But you must be the one who holds the ring. So you know, just being like the helper. Uh, the supporter, but it is their journey and I'm there to primarily keep them safe.

The facilitators job 1st is to keep them safe and to hold the energetic container of support. And then afterwards we do an integration session, and that's a requirement too. Um, we have to offer integration, people don't have to accept it, but integration is taking all of those insights and that clarity that came up and really figuring out how to lay the steps like brick by brick into the next stage of their life so they have positive, long lasting change ideally.

[00:27:37] Gwyn: It sounds really incredible. I looked at pictures of your center and it's absolutely beautiful. and I could 100 percent envision doing this.

[00:27:48] Amory Jane: Yeah, the first time I was at that center, you know, from the outside, I was like, um, where I work, Fractal Soul, it's a business center in a suburb. And so I was like, Mushroom's in a business center, huh? But as soon as I walk through the door into the actual space that is our suite, it's like being transported. Like, the lighting, the mood, the vibe, there's all these different elements. theme rooms um, you know, for the different elements. And some people are drawn to one over the other for certain reasons, but it's all very intentional to be, you know, a safe, comfortable, held space that also has inspiring art and lights.

And as soon as I was in there, I was like, yeah, this feels good to me. And it also helps that it looks out over a bunch of gorgeous trees. You still get the nature connection without having to worry about nature's unpredictability.

[00:28:41] Gwyn: right. Locusts and the like. So does it ever happen that people set an intention and then when they start the journey, they just take a complete left turn?

[00:28:54] Amory Jane: Yes.

[00:28:55] Gwyn: And how important is it to stick with the intention or to follow the left turn? Do you discuss that ahead of time?

[00:29:05] Amory Jane: We do discuss it ahead of time. Um, and you know, I ask people that exact question. I ask them, how important is it that you follow that intention if something else comes in? And also, please be open minded that what is coming in might actually be related to your intention. There's this saying in the mushroom community that the mushrooms take you where you need to go, but not always where you want to go.

And sometimes it's a long and winding scenic route, and sometimes it takes a few journeys to get there. But having that intention clear can really help guide the journey. And sometimes people will make that choice in the moment to go to another path. They might be like, I know my intention was this, but this is actually much more compelling over here, what I'm being shown.

Navigating Expectations in Relationships

[00:29:56] Amory Jane: This feels like what I want to follow. Yeah, it depends on the person. I've certainly had journeys where I set out with one kind of intention and it went a different way, and it wasn't until months later that I was like, No, that, that was right. Especially when doing it in, um, a setting with a partner and having, like, our intention is to, you know, get closer to one another and, fall further in love and then the mushrooms have you completely doing something different and not even connecting throughout the day that you do them.

But actually, maybe you getting to do your own personal work and turning away from each other to take care of yourselves was exactly what the relationship needed and trusting that you both had yourselves and you come back to each other more healed than before. Maybe that actually does help you eventually be more in love and have a healthier relationship.

It just didn't go the way of, like, staring into each other's eyes and, you know, professing love to each other. You know, it just looked very different. So I always talk to people about expectations versus intention. And this is something that you know we talk about in the sex ed world all the time. Expectations versus exploration. Like, orgasm focus versus Just having fun and playing and it's that kind of difference, you know, like being open to what arises and going with it and having that sense of adventure. Versus being like, it has to go this exact way or else it's wrong or else it wasn't good.

And that the first one is definitely more the vibe we're going for, where we have ideas and dreams for how we would like it to be, but knowing that it might be different than that and that that's okay, versus it's not okay if it doesn't go according to my own personal plan.

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[00:33:23] Gwyn: Bringing it back to the sexuality realm. Thank you.

Mental Health and Psychedelic Journeys

[00:33:26] Gwyn: What are different things that people are coming to you with?

[00:33:31] Amory Jane: Yeah, mostly, I'll be honest, right now there aren't, at least, admittedly, like, up front, a lot of clients coming in with things related to sex or sexuality, although sometimes those things are revealed to them during the journey, or perhaps they get more comfortable with me as they get to know me, as they're more open talking about those things.

But most of the people, you know, in this first year, the primary, mental health concerns of major depression, anxiety, CPTSD, PTSD, grief, um, you know, sometimes even physical things like cluster headaches. People are coming to us more for those things, but I have had clients who realized during their journey that there were, components of their sex lives that they wanted to work on within themselves, um, that they wanted to talk to their partner about.

They realized that they were being, you know, maybe dishonest. Um, with a partner and wanted to be able to figure out how to talk to them about their true desires. Or people who have thought through their gender and their sexual orientation, and who are like, well, I am not as straight as I've been telling people. Or, like me, where they're like, I think that I want to be in an open relationship. Uh, so that can happen sometimes, even if that's not on the intentions.

Um, for me specifically, I have put out there that I specialize in working with people who have PMDD. Which is something that I've been dealing with since I was a teenager and that I have had a lot of positive experiences using psilocybin to help me with. Because PMDD is a unique form of a mood disorder and depression, because it's cyclical, um, related to the menstrual cycle. And getting lumped in with things like depression or anxiety, never quite felt like I landed there.

Um, But, you know, there have been studies that show that people have more positive self image often after doing psychedelic journeys.

Psilocybin and Sexuality

[00:35:46] Amory Jane: Um, psilocybin can help people feel like they can get to the truth of themselves and feel maybe more courageous to talk to partners about their desires. You know, maybe things like kinks that they've been kept hidden. There's less shame there. So even when they approach a partner, they're doing so from a shame free place. And as you know, as a sex educator, when you approach people with confidence from a shame free place, you're more likely to get what you want.

Because people don't feel, uh, you know, pressure. They're just like, hey, you seem excited about this. I want to see what you're excited about. So it actually does help people have better sex lives in a lot of ways. It can. In addition to, you know, I think just some of the symptoms of depression that can cause folks to have lower sex drive.

Um, a lot of people who also who have anxiety and depression are on medications that can give them a low libido. And we have found that people who use psilocybin, their libidos have been boosted, um, and this was, originally, this study was done because they were trying to figure out how to help people who were on SSRIs and were experiencing that low libido and reporting a lack of a sex drive and how that was distressing to them and their relationships, so they're like, well, could they do a psychedelic journey to improve all that?

Um, so yeah, there was. There was a study on that, and sure enough, that is what the study found. More and more research is going to come.

[00:37:17] Gwyn: And, and that is so wonderful. I mean, just the fact that more research is coming is so wonderful.

Understanding PMDD and Personal Healing

[00:37:22] Gwyn: But bringing it back to the shame and the going with our own cycles, um, and, and for folks who don't know, PMDD is so much worse than PMS, like, and many people who bleed, just struggle with that. I can't imagine, the intensity that folks with PMDD go through. So was your journey with that? Did it take several times of trying to figure that out? Because it just seems so debilitating.

[00:37:56] Amory Jane: Yeah. I mean, I was very much blaming PMDD for the end of a major relationship in my life. I was married and I think my cyclical, like, mental health issues were really, really hard on my partner. And, you know. Really hard on me too. Um, but it was, it was hard for us to go through that together.

And it took me years to even get diagnosed with that. I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder when I was young. And it was just like, yeah, you've got PMS and depression. And then like, people were throwing around like, well, maybe it's bipolar too. And all of these things. And I'm like, yeah, but I started tracking like I was one of the early users of the period apps and was like, I'm putting the frowny face in there at the same time every month.

I'm putting the back pain. I'm putting the cramps. I'm putting the like, you just see all these check marks on all the symptoms every month. And so I started realizing that. but yeah, I think with the psilocybin journeys, it was not, like, one of them that allowed me to embrace myself. It was a few of them, and sometimes, you know, it was a moment, like a wave, we call them.

You have these waves where you're like, I'm feeling just like I'm kind of vibing, the trees are breathing, colors are cool, art's cool, oh wait, I'm being pulled into this part of myself, and then you're, like, in this wave. Almost like a scene, and I've had scenes that were like during my bigger journeys that were helping me with different aspects of the PMDD, and I think the hardest part, the final one, was really just embracing and integrating that werewolf part. That part that felt like I was so pissed at her for ruining my marriage.

Um, you know, I was so ashamed of her behaviors and the way she had lashed out and the way she, you know, had caused me to lose jobs over the years by being like, fuck it all, I'm not getting out of bed , um. So, you know, it took some time, and as with most people, you know, I'm not like, one thing is very separate from the rest of me, it's all connected to all parts of me.

Like, it also goes back to areas of childhood trauma in my life where I felt similar ways, and so it's just like, all of these threads, like a giant beaded necklace that you're like, it's such a mess, it'll never get untangled, is like how it felt when I first looked at it all And then each time I did these journeys, these waves would just kind of slowly start unraveling it until it was no longer tangled and in a big mess.

[00:40:33] Gwyn: Yeah, so much healing comes from basic acceptance of who we are and if that's around your hormones and the way that your body is functioning or around the trauma that you have, because everybody has some trauma or around the shame that you've created in your own life. And it all gets back to sex and sexuality, if that happens to be where your brain is at.

Um, but acceptance is such a huge, important piece. And it seems like this is such a great tool for people to be able to access their own acceptance

[00:41:15] Amory Jane: hmm.

[00:41:16] Gwyn: and the idea of doing it with a facilitator, like, I'm like, yeah, that sounds frankly, and I have tripped more times than I can count on a variety of substances. And, you know, I've sort of crafted my own way of doing things, including micro dosing at certain times and others. But I really love this concept. I think that it's a wonderful thing and I really hope that the rest of our very uptight country can get on board. I love hearing about what's happening out there. Like, I can't wait for more studies to come out. Hopefully again, to help us move forward in this reality.

[00:41:56] Amory Jane: Yeah. You know, what's really cool is that we have served more clients. Already within all of the service centers than any study that has ever been done with people on psilocybin. You know, like, we're seeing so many people and we're getting more real life data because these, studies, they have to be. To be like, scientifically sound, they have to have everybody be like, either all on the same exact medication, or none at all.

You know, you have to kind of give everybody the exact same dose, and that's not how real life works. And we get to have all of this, uh, knowledge that, uh, Is real life, like, people who are on four different kinds of medications, and how that is going to impact. Like, a lot of people are on, um, diet drugs, and how that, uh, might make it so that your journey, you don't have a launch experience and onset until two or three hours in, instead of 20 to 30 minutes, because of, like, stomach emptying.

So, like, these are things that are not yet being done in research studies and we're seeing it every day. Like we're seeing how this might be impacting people and getting this information in real time. And, you know, I think it's yeah, it's just It's a beautiful thing that we're all in such a community with one another to be able to, you know, say, like, are people finding, like, I have a client who's on this kind of medication, are people finding anything that is worth sharing about this?

Like, onset time being different. Does this impact the serotonin? Like, these are the kinds of things that we're just having to learn with each other as we go. And it's more than they've been able to do in all of the research studies so far. So I'm excited for the research studies because they're really important. And I'm also excited for all of this learning that we are doing that we are going to be able to share with people.

And clients get to choose, by the way, whether they opt In or out of their data being shared. And we'd never share anything like names, it's all anonymous data. Client confidentiality is really, really important.

The Importance of Integration and Community

[00:44:06] Amory Jane: There's something I wanted to go back to, which is what you said, you know, you're thinking about how it would be with a facilitator and how that could be really nice. And I think there's something so powerful in being witnessed. I'm a big fan of collective healing and the power of community.

I don't like the idea of people should be, like, you are fully responsible if you were traumatized to do all of the work on making yourself better. And I'm like, yes, it is your responsibility to take care of you, but if your trauma was done because of other people. If, like, harm happened because of other humans, then healing has to happen with other humans to feel safe again in your body. You know, to feel right, to actually move through and heal trauma, you, if you do it completely alone, like, then you come out on the other side.

It's like, I have a friend who meditates all the time and says it's a million times easier to go to a meditation retreat because you're on the cushion and you're in like an environment designed for it. And then as soon as you go home, you're like, ah, but now real life is around everywhere. It's so much harder to meditate in real life than on a cushion.

And it's the same way, we can do our healing in a therapy session, but it's actually how our inner, actions in our relationships go that provide the most healing, I believe. And so, being witnessed, having someone there with you while you're facing, you know, your shadow parts, while you're like, looking in the face of a person who harmed you in your mind's eye, and like, rewriting your entire story as the hero. Like, all these kinds of things, and having somebody there witnessing you, cheering you on, integrating it with you, staying in contact with you, that's powerful, and that's the kind of stuff that I love when people are like, I'm going to go and do it by myself.

This is the kind of thing that when you do it by yourself, you don't get to have access to. And I do believe there's a place for both, but this is something different and really special.

[00:46:16] Gwyn: You mentioned the integration session. It was that a separate session after the journey. So the journey happens and then you go home and then you come back and it is. Am I getting that right?

Practicalities of Psilocybin Therapy

[00:46:28] Amory Jane: yeah, yeah, it's usually like a total of four sessions or sometimes more, like one that covers the paperwork, the logistics, all of that. One that's really about preparation and intention, setting the music and the environment for the journey. Then your journey day, which has to happen at the service center. These other sessions can happen through Zoom.

And then the integration session is usually within a week of your journey, so that it's still fresh, but you have a day or two afterwards, just rest and soak in the experience. So that usually happens online, through Zoom. Or if people are local, it can happen in person too.

But we are able to see people from anywhere in the world as long as they're 21 and up. Uh, and part of, that's why we do the Zoom sessions for everything else, so that it's accessible to everyone. No matter where they are, but yes, people do have to actually fly in or come in in person to the state of Oregon.

Right now we're the only place that does have legal psilocybin journeys in the United States, although Colorado is coming up next year.

[00:47:35] Gwyn: Awesome. That's really wonderful. I have to say, I really like the idea of the integration. And when you were talking about taking notes and to share that, like, oh, that would be, that would be so nice.

[00:47:48] Amory Jane: Right? You've probably had moments where you're, where you're like on Mushrooms and you're like, oh my gosh, I sound like a genius right now. Like the things I am learning and sharing with myself are so good. I'm not gonna remember these probably.

[00:48:03] Gwyn: Any of it. Yeah, no, poof gone. Although when I was much, much younger and doing really stupid things, I did write some poetry that I thought was amazing. And it was, it was awful. Um, But that's appropriate.

[00:48:19] Amory Jane: it's like people doing like not. Not people who are actual artists, cause sometimes they are still very good at doing art when they're on psychedelics. But people like me who are not very good artists are like, This is the most beautiful painting of a snake I have ever done or ever seen. And then you look at it sober and it's like a child's, you know, watercolor snake that's just like a squiggly line on a piece of paper. Yeah, I

[00:48:44] Gwyn: Yeah.

[00:48:47] Amory Jane: I do think, something I like about psilocybin compared to some of the other psychedelics, um, and other substances in general, is that most people do remember their journeys.

They remember a lot of details. They might not remember the exact phrases they say, and that's a lot of what I write down are direct quotes. Um, but they, they aren't, for the most part, having like these chunks where they're like, I have no idea what happened for a few hours. It's not like a blackout experience where you come to. You know, like you get to participate in it and remember what you participated in.

[00:49:22] Gwyn: And especially with the very specific dosage that you're creating for the body that is in front of you, right? Because that obviously also takes into account.

[00:49:33] Amory Jane: it does. It's tricky though because it's not like other medicines where you're like, okay, so you're this tall, you weigh this much, we're gonna kind of guess you here. Nope, not at all. I had a client who was like a 300 pound, six foot, six person who had a small dose and was blasted into outer space. He was having a great time, great journey.

And then, like, little tiny, you know, people who are like, I don't know, maybe we'll just start with what's average. And they're like, nope, I need more, you know. So, like, it has nothing to do with height or weight. Um, most of it has to do with, the other medications you're on. Specifically anything that works on serotonin like an SSRI or SNRI, people often need significantly more, sometimes up to 50 percent more.

And if they've been on multiple blunting medications sometimes even the state maximum dose is not enough. So, you know, the dosing isn't, It is a little bit of a guessing game, unless you already know, unless you've been in. It's a bit easier for folks who are not on any medication or who are on just one serotonin impacting medication to kind of figure out where to go.

But each person is bio unique. Every single brain is different. There are people who are just super sensitive to drugs in general. There are people who have high anxiety and are like already very raw who would have a big journey off of a smaller amount. There are people who have really strong protector parts, and they can take a big dose and not feel anything, and it has nothing to do with a pharmaceutical. It has to do with, you know, something else, maybe psychologically, that's trying to prevent this experience.

So we do the best we can with the information we have, but that's why it's really, really important for people to be honest about the medications are taking. Both pharmaceutical over the counter and recreational substances, so we can keep them safe and provide them with a dose that is the most optimal for their experience.

[00:51:41] Gwyn: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Do you have a lot of repeat clients? Do people come and do it multiple times?

[00:51:48] Amory Jane: I think we will. There have been repeat clients since it's so new, you know, only a year and a half. But I think a lot of people like the idea of having it be an annual thing until it feels like their work is mostly complete. I think it can be really nice to have that check in with yourself once a year, a lot of people like lining it up with something like, it's harvest season or like summer solstice, you know, to kind of marking it as a ritual of self, which I think is really beautiful.

So I do think that's starting to happen more and more. Um, and I've had a few repeat clients and I love working with people I've already worked with, because it's like, we don't have to start from scratch with each other. There's already that knowing of each other and that safety, which I think can help people sink in deeper the next time around.

[00:52:35] Gwyn: Yeah, that's what I was thinking of the comfort of the awareness that can happen from, um, from repeated journeys.

[00:52:43] Amory Jane: Yeah, exactly.

[00:52:45] Gwyn: This is amazing. I'm so thrilled for what it can do specifically for folks in my field. I'm thrilled that you are coming to it as a sexuality educator. I'm so thrilled that's happening in general. Like, I'm a little verklempt about it. Like, I think it's really, really wonderful. Um, is there anything that you want to be sure to get out that we haven't touched on?

Exploring Sex-Positive Furniture

[00:53:08] Amory Jane: Well, it's not really related to psychedelics. Um, but I, you know, it is related to pleasure, and sex. Uh, my partner and I have a furniture company called Amory Design. And we have nightstands. That was our first product, the world's most sex positive nightstand and, uh, big chests. We're gonna make more furniture in the future.

But this is furniture that looks really beautiful. It's all handcrafted wood. My partner makes it himself in his shop. And it's, you know, the kind of thing that your in laws or a house cleaner or your kids see and not think anything about because all of the features that make it sex positive are discreet.

But it's lockable, there's a built in warmer for lube and massage candles, in drawer charging, really strong, sturdy drawers so you can throw your steel toys in there. Because I've had so much cheap furniture break because of my massive sex toy collection. And you know, for me, it's an extension of what I do in the world, which is just being sex positive, shame free.

And also, like, you don't have to be wearing leather and latex and corsets and holding a crop to be a kinky person, to be a pleasure positive person. You can have it just, you know, Be part of your life integrated in. So I just wanted to give a shout out to that because that's a new and exciting thing, that we're really proud of that we're doing.

[00:54:36] Gwyn: Yeah, that sounds fantastic. And yes, we can thank Njoy for breaking many a piece of furniture. Um,

[00:54:42] Amory Jane: Worth it!

[00:54:46] Gwyn: 100%.

[00:54:48] Amory Jane: Yes.

Final Thoughts and Resources

[00:54:49] Amory Jane: But if people want to find out about, more about, facilitation and psilocybin services, my website for that is triumphantunfolding. com. I also have a sex educator website as well, but that I'm probably going to, I'm going to merge my, my two worlds a little more the more that I start to see the place that I have here with being a sexuality educator and what I can bring to the table. So stay tuned to either of my websites, AmoryJane.com or TriumphantUnfolding. com.

[00:55:22] Gwyn: We will have links to everything in the show notes so people can follow along and if they wanted to book a session specifically with you and in your thing, go through the triumphant, what was the triumphant

[00:55:35] Amory Jane: Triumphant unfolding. Yeah, they can go through there. There's a button for getting a free consultation, which is just talking to make sure, you know, all the eligibility and screening is good, you know, you're on the medications that would allow it to be safe and to have an experience, um, and to see if we click, you know, because that's important part of it too.

It's not just making sure you're safe. It's also making sure you are gonna enjoy the person who you're gonna be with in a room for six hours that you trust them and that it feels like it's the right fit. So just like with therapy or a doctor ideally you find someone clicks with you So yeah, people can get that information there and book a free session through my website.

[00:56:16] Gwyn: I finish off my podcasts with one final question, which is Amory Jane, what excites you?

[00:56:22] Amory Jane: What excites me is when people cook for me. I might have a bigger answer around all of this amazing, um, psychedelic renaissance conversation we've been talking about, but it's around lunchtime here for me. So what excites me is when I get a home cooked meal, because I personally I don't have a lot of spoons for being in the kitchen.

So what excites me is when I don't have to do the work and can have a nourishing, delicious meal right in front of me.

[00:56:54] Gwyn: Feel that one. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. my partner's love language is cooking and it's so good.

[00:57:02] Amory Jane: I love that. I think one of my love languages is enjoying people's cooking.

[00:57:09] Gwyn: Wonderful. Thank you so much. This has been really great.

[00:57:13] Amory Jane: You're welcome. It was exciting to talk about.

[00:57:23] Gwyn: So are you ready to try therapeutic psilocybin journeying? I know I sure am. And I'm totally going to plan that for my next trip to Oregon. Maybe you have some questions that I missed? Let me know by bringing your thoughts and going to whatexcitesus.com. It's entirely possible that I could ask Amory Jane. And we could have a fill in later on down the line.

You can do that super easy. Just go to what excites us.com. There are links to contact me or links to the Patrion, and if you happen to be on Facebook, there's a group there too, where you can join us and have conversations.

And please go check out all of Amory Jane's websites. That's amoryjane.com. Triumphantunfolding.com, and Amory.design. And I have to tell you, the furniture is really, really beautiful.

I'm going to remind you one more time to please rate and review the show wherever you listen. There's even a link on the website. Whatexcitesus.com that makes that super easy for you. And I am so appreciative.

If you're still here. Come here. If you're still here, and you have any interest on coming on and talking to me. Sharing your sex life. How you got there. What it means to you? Anonymously or not. I would really love to have you. I'm also interested in Chatting to more folks who are in the sexuality or adjacent fields. So please. Have your favorite sex educator reach out or just reach out yourself. Let's talk, let's spread. This important work.

I wish I could give you a cookie for listening all the way through. I appreciate you so much. But I can't. Cause that's not how wifi works. But. I am going to remind you. That you. are indeed loved I promise. Thank you so much.