What Excites Us!

Episode 55: Attachment Styles and Intimacy with Shelby Avann

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Gwyn: This podcast is about sex and sexuality, so please only listen if you are an adult without kids or other ears around that cannot or do not consent to sensitive language and content. Thanks.

[00:00:23] Gwyn: have you ever wondered how your attachment style shapes your relationships or why certain emotional blockages manifest as physical pain? In this episode, we reveal the transformative journey of intimacy through expert guidance, with my guest, Shelby Avann, an intimacy coach and healer who can help with these issues. Welcome to What Excites Us, the show that discusses sex and sexuality through a variety of perspectives so that you know that you and your desires are not alone in the world. I'm Gwyn Isaacs a sex coach who has been helping folks professionally since 2017.

Let me tell you more about Shelby Avann, the intimacy mistress. With a foundation in attachment theory, sexuality, kink, tantra, and energy healing, Shelby's approach is multifaceted and deeply insightful. She provides support and guidance in areas such as communication, vulnerability, and building a deeper understanding of intimacy in order to foster healthy relationships with a more profound sense of connection.

Shelby's expertise shines as we explore the complexities of attachment styles and their impact on our relationships. We will discover the four primary attachment styles and gain insights into how these patterns are formed and how they can evolve over time. Shelby shares some practical tools for identifying core wounds, setting, healthy boundaries, and moving towards a more secure attachment style fostering, not just improved relationships, but also personal growth and emotional resilience. But our conversation doesn't stop there. We learn about the importance of self consent. Body awareness and how understanding your erotic blueprint can revolutionize your sexual experiences.

Shelby's vision for accessible online programs underscores the potential for significant positive change, which creates ripples of transformation within our communities. Which you know, is my jam. Please stay with us for an episode, brimming with insights and practical tips for fostering intimacy and healing.

But before we dive in, I need to let you know about a new way you can connect with me and others in a sex positive space. If you play on Facebook. I've created a group there to foster discussions like this one share memes and just generally be supportive and kind around topics that aren't always comfortable in other places. If this interests you. And you're on Facebook. Please join us by searching What Excites Us and answering the brief questionnaire.

Welcome, Shelby Avann, to What Excites Us. How delightful to have you here.

[00:03:26] Shelby: Thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here.

[00:03:28] Gwyn: This is great. Um, we've never met, so this is going to be really informative for me as well as our listeners. And I, I love that. I think it's super fun to just dive in and go. I don't know what we're talking about. So let's go.

[00:03:43] Shelby: Yeah, I'm, I'm pretty open as I was kind of giving you the jist beforehand, but we'll see what the listeners are game for here.

[00:03:49] Gwyn: Yeah. Why don't we start with just a little bit about who you are and what it is that you do?

[00:03:55] Shelby: Okay. so, uh, I'm Shelby and I am a intimacy coach and a healer. So, um, my coaching is based in attachment theory. And I really love also going down the line of working with, uh, sexuality, whether that's regarding like kink and Tantra. Um, or it doesn't have to work around sexuality at all. I just find it's a very, um, healing modality. That's not touched upon a lot. Um, but I really like to go down there. So people are game. I like to, um, help them along with that.

But then I'm also, I'm also a reiki healer. So I do energy healing also, and can put that into my coaching programs. If people are interested in having a session as a part of their coaching program, then that's, that's something that I very much can do. And I, I really, really enjoy it. I think it's fun to actually start start people off with that and kind of see where they're at and what's the most prominent thing that they need to work on.

[00:04:46] Gwyn: Oh, that's interesting. So in your perfect coaching world, somebody would come to you presenting with a concern that they dealing with. And you would first start talking about the various ways and modalities, and if they were interested in this Reiki and healing side, you would start with that. And what would that do? How would you go from there?

[00:05:08] Shelby: Well, so the like Reiki in itself, um, with it being energy healing, um, basically I'm kind of, like I'm using universal energy to help with healing any blockages and moving any energetic blockages that are in the body. But usually what comes up, like those are from, emotional blockages that we've stuffed inside our body and haven't dealt with basically, that's usually what happens. So as I'm working, as I'm doing a session, I'm getting, I also get, it's like, very intuitive. So I also get these messages, which are kind of like, in a sense, psychic messages, um, from the body. And it's kind of like, well, you know, there's this, this thing going on with this particular relationship and it feels like it's stuck in your body here because it hasn't been dealt with for X, Y, Z reasons or whatever.

So I can get like a lot of stuff that really, really relates to how I'm also going to coach people later, but their body will literally tell me, um, what is most prevalent to them. Honestly. And like, I say, I say it out loud to them at the same time. They're like, I don't, yeah, this is, I mean, I knew that and like, yeah, it's usually those things that we, we know about, but it's kind of like, they can yeah. Like, yeah, it's always there. That we almost forget about it, that it's always there. It's always a problem. And it's kind of like, I think we should work on that.

[00:06:16] Gwyn: Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense, particularly where I am physically today. That makes a lot of sense. So I'm restrained like, what do you think about the second chakra? We don't need to go there right now.

[00:06:29] Shelby: That's literally like what my whole thing is. Sacral chakra is all of what I do.

[00:06:35] Gwyn: Oh, well, great. Well, let's go there. We'll come back around to the other side. Let's talk about the chakras for a second.

[00:06:42] Shelby: Okay. Okay. So if we go, so in the way that I do the healing too, I worked through the chakra system. So there's seven chakras that I work with. There's more, but this is what I typically work through with healing. And I always like to start at the base. So the base is the root chakra. This is basically, uh, bottom of the tailbone or hips down. So this can, uh, physically, this can affect like the legs and this is your grounding, um, your sense of safety. This can relate to, um, like your basic needs, your home life, money, family, any of that stuff.

Um, and then if we move up to the sacral chakra, that's like the reproductive organs and like around the belly button. And that is, um, your sexuality. It is your creativity and your emotions. That's where that kind of lies. It gets stuck in there. And this is basically the common theme with all of this is wherever the chakra is located. And if there's like, you know, healing that needs to be done there, usually there's a, um. Not usually, but depending on, uh, how much stuck energy is in there, it can relate, it can move forward into this, um, literal physical pain point. So if you're having something like, um, you know, like pain, uh, like UTIs, or if you have low back pain, or if you have pain in your knees, like that, it can be telling us for what's going on. Like you're not feeling as grounded or safe or, um, Um, you're not feeling like you can sexually express yourself in some way. Like, is it's going, I find it. There's very relatable things.

If there's pain in a certain part of your body to the chakra and what it relates to. And then there's solar plexus, which is like just under the breasts, um, and it relates to your digestive system and that's your self confidence and your power of will. It's a more masculine, like sunshine energy, that will power.

A heart is. Being able to give and receive love. Um, and that also revolves around anything in the chest that can be breasts that can be heart that can be, lungs too. Uh, grief very much can live in this area.

Uh, throat, is your self expression, so are you actually speaking up for what it is that you need to? Are you actually being heard in the way that you're hoping to be heard? Um, or are you holding it all back?

Um, 3rd eye is between the eyebrows and this is your intuition. Um, so if you have headaches, you might be getting blocked or even, um, eyesight, like, if you're not seeing things clearly that can relate to your intuition, your 3rd eye.

And then crown is the top of the head, and that's your connection to spirit. And this one for me, I find hard to like, give physical symptoms for because they say it's like, kind of things like psychosis and stuff like that. But I don't really know what to what to say with that. I kind of just go with other things that are kind of going on with the head that might be hurting you. So, but, yeah, that connection to spirit, whatever, way you believe in. It's whether that's like, goddesses and angels and nature, or whether it's God or, you know, whatever, whatever format it is.

[00:09:24] Gwyn: And so when problems arise, and you can pinpoint them to a chakra or seven, um, how do you, how do you help folks navigate through those issues?

[00:09:37] Shelby: Well, so again, usually what happens is like, I'm being given a message of, you know, like someone's just like, there's grief happening because, uh, someone's been broken up with, or like they broke up in whatever relationship or someone's passed away. And there's, you know, a lot of stuff like that is also, is allowing ourselves to feel the grief. So if we're just stuffing it down, not actually feeling it, it needs to be let out. To just give ourselves the space and the time to allow ourselves to have it.

Um, but then also like with a breakup, I feel like a lot of people probably have this problem. And they're kind of like, I want to go. I want my ex back. I want this. Like, I don't understand. There's or there's some sort of story that's going on. That's really painful for you. And. That in itself can cause like more issues in your body, more dysregulation in your nervous system, depending on how, like what it is that you're, you're thinking of. 

And so with that, that's kind of like, okay, this is where we need some tools because if you are like, this person's not interested in getting back to you, like something happened, there's a particular pattern that you always seem to have in relationships. And, you know, we need to address that. What is going on? And so it could be, um, so we can fall into attachment style.

So if there's someone that's a more anxious person, they may be someone that people pleases, which means that, um, people please all the time. And they're always kind of like, um, saying yes to their partner, but they're also always wanting to be around them all the time and they don't want to be apart from them.

You know, how can we start to self soothe ourselves so that we are able to take a step back and to be able to give our partner space? How can we also start to stand up for. Speak up for what it is that we truly want and trust that like we are able to give it to ourselves.

So something like, you know, I need, I need attention, like, well, give attention to yourself. Like, what is it that your body is saying that you need right now? You know, like maybe you've been hungry for three hours. Why don't you go feed yourself and don't rely on someone else's system to be like, Oh yeah. You know what? I'm hungry too. Let's go eat. Like I'm starving. I'm hangry. You know, like, it'd be as simple as that. Just speaking up for yourself and starting to understand, um, listening to your body again.

[00:11:39] Gwyn: Sure, that makes sense. I'm glad you brought up attachment styles, because I know that's something else that you work with. That is not something that, Is mainstream yet certainly it's available there. It's out there, but it's not. It's not hitting the world the way that, um, that it could be. So, can you can you start by giving us an overview of what even that means and breaking down the different styles.

[00:12:04] Shelby: Okay. Yeah. So, um, like attachment styles is basically how. You relate to the people in your life, the relationships in your life. So there are 4 types of attachment styles. Uh, usually this is formed when you're a child. Um, it can change as you go through life, depending on what your experiences are, but usually it's not usually it is formed as a child. So it's either you're secure, which is like a very regulated, healthy, able to stand up for yourself, speak your boundaries, know that you're going to get the love and affection and connection that you need in a very healthy way. Um, that would be a secure.

Um, there's also anxious, which is kind of like what I just talked about. So someone that, um, usually they're like, the core wound that goes with the anxious is that they feel like they're going to be abandoned. So, hence why they want to go, and they don't want to let someone out of their sight. They don't want, they want to spend a lot of time with him. Like, don't leave me. That's kind of where their energy is coming from, because they're scared that they're going to be abandoned. And they get really anxious about it. And then they will push their all their own needs aside so that they can have the relationships that they really, really desire. They really want. Um, it's just not super helpful or healthy in the long run.

Um, and then we have the dismissive avoidance. So these ones are are people who, um, their major, like, main core wound is that they feel defective, like, something's wrong with them. Um, and this is usually based off of, like, I was seeking needs from my caregivers, but they never gave it to me so I just stopped asking for it and I started to rely on myself. And so they're, they have a harder time with receiving. And, um, they're usually kind of like, I can rely on myself. I'm a lone wolf.

Um, I don't need help from anyone and I will kind of like, just push away if you get too close and usually the anxious and the avoidant get together because they need to like, balance each other out. But If I don't push back and then the anxious will run after them and be like, wait, what are you doing? Um, and then it's like, it's a hurtful cycle that kind of ends up happening. And then the, the last one is the fearful avoidant, which is basically a mix of both the anxious and the avoidance side.

So, the FA for short, their core wounding is usually around betrayal, like, cause their home was, there was something inconsistent or chaotic about their home. So whether that was, um, like parents weren't home as often. So there wasn't like a consistent time frame that they could rely on people to be back. There could be something like that. It could be that there's abuse in the home. It could be that there's, um, like mental illness, anything like that, where it's kind of like, Ooh, like, I can't really trust people to be there for me in a consistent way, something along those lines.

But then at the same time, some of their needs can get met. So they can be like, Ooh, okay. Like I can, I can ask for needs, but then I don't know when you're going to be back and then sometimes I can't really actually rely on you. So then I'm going to just pull back because that's safer. But then I want this and then, like, the anxious side comes in, so it's very, like, it can switch back and forth, depending what the fearful avoidant. Um, so those are the different types of, attachment styles.

[00:15:01] Gwyn: So how does someone come to understand who they are and where they are in that

[00:15:05] Shelby: As in, like, which attachment style they are. Um, so there's like, there's a quiz that I can send. I can send anyone that's interested. Um, I find that it's like, I like to use attachment style as base, but then at the same time, the, um, the way that we go about working on healing to become more secure is, is. Similar, no matter what your attachment style is.

So, like, we're going to start to understand, you know, what is it that you actually truly need? Do you even know what your needs are? Like, how can you meet them? How can you let other people meet them for you? How can it become a nice balance? How can you start to speak up for yourself and set boundaries? Um, what core wounds are creating these stories in your head that are stopping you from, being with people who are truly aligned with you or who treat you well or going for that thing and work that you really want to do. Um, so starting to like, question those things. So there's a lot of like, that stuff that it doesn't matter what your attachment style is. Like, we'll work on it and in a particular way.

[00:16:03] Gwyn: Gotcha. So the way that you work with people, it sounds like is a very holistic approach where you're taking in the whole being and helping them pinpoint what pieces they want to be working on. Am I getting that right?

[00:16:19] Shelby: Yeah, well, I think that there's stuff that just kind of naturally presents itself. So they're like, this thing is bothering me. I'm like, okay, tell me about it and let's go from there. So um, like I had a client last night that I was working with and that the theme that kind of kept coming up was basically safety. That's like, you know, I need to I need to get a job to be safe. Like, or that's what I was hearing in it. It's like. You know, I need to get a job, um, but I'm not getting a job. So then it's, it's a combination of like, I'm not safe because I don't have the stability in my life, but then I'm also not good enough because I'm not getting the thing that I need to make that stability for myself. So, like, I'm just not worthy of this. I'm not, you know.

So it can kind of like, there can kind of be a few things that it will have a domino effect on you, um, depending on where you let your mind go and how, like, what stories start to happen for you. But, um, yeah, so, like, things like that, I'd be like, I'm frustrated that I, like, there's another work thing that didn't happen that I didn't get, or I'm frustrated with my family again, or this, argument keeps coming up with my, you know, my significant other. It could be any of those things.

And then as I. As people start to share their story or whatever it is, it's bothering them. I start to hear what it is. That's the story that they're telling or like what's not happening. Or are they speaking up or are they not expressing their needs and not being clear? Like what's happening? Are their true selves coming up or is a story happening?

[00:17:35] Gwyn: So, because it's such a tangled mess.

[00:17:39] Shelby: Yes.

[00:17:39] Gwyn: Humans in general are a tangled mess. Um, and, and what I hear is that you're helping people parse out the pieces, sort of untangle the threads that will then help them get to the nexus of where their issues lie and how that relates to their relationships and their intimacy, sort of thing. Yeah.

[00:18:02] Shelby: Yeah, yeah,

[00:18:03] Gwyn: And are you doing that just with talking or you mentioned Reiki and other healing things? How does that work out?

[00:18:11] Shelby: Yeah. So again, if they want to do a reiki session, then then they can do that. Usually, if someone's coming for me directly for coaching, um. I don't actually usually talk about the unless I kind of feel like they start talking about something like energetic or spiritual. I'm like, okay, just so, you know, this is an offer that I can also give you. So we can do this at some point in time in the program if you want it.

But yeah, what it usually looks like is I'll, I give exercises out and, um, and then we also do work where I'll kind of like, do something that helps them to regulate their nervous system down. So I'll talk them through some breath work, maybe visualization, um, some actual sensation stuff. So I like to actually have them put their hands on their body somewhere that feels good. Usually like heart and belly, um, do that visualization, do that grounding, get them to actually do some somatic processing.

So that's like, you know, Okay. I'm anxious. Where is that in your body? Where do you feel it? And then does it have a certain type of texture or feeling or even color something, anything really? So, like, I know, I felt anxious and that's in my stomach and then I can feel nauseous and that can feel like I'm, very buzzy inside and like, this kind of like chaotic energy, um, and try to actually get them to be like, okay, get out of the stories that in your head about why the anxiety story and be like, okay, so my anxiety feels like this in my body. And then it brings them back into the present moment, and into their body and out of the story. Which is something they can take out and practice in daily life, too, to help them break that pattern of like, my story spirals happening.

[00:19:39] Gwyn: Yeah, I'm intimately familiar with that reality. I mean, I think most of us are. Um, that's how we ended up in this situation to begin with. So, when it comes to intimacy, how are you, do you work with people? Single people, do you work with couples as a whole or throuples or?

[00:20:01] Shelby: The whole grouping of humanity. Um,

[00:20:03] Gwyn: of humanity at once. Are you doing like one on one sessions? Do you run group coaching? Tell us about your modality itself.

[00:20:10] Shelby: Yeah, so I have, I have one on one coaching and I do group coaching as well. Um, I prefer to work with individuals versus, like, I haven't done a couple session. I don't think I will. I just think that, like I said earlier, usually the couple is like, someone is anxious, someone is avoidant. And although they're still going to get very similar, um, exercises from me, they're still different. So it doesn't make sense for them both to work with me at the same time.

And I also don't want them to get into conflict with me. I'm not, I'm not a therapist. I'm a coach. I don't want that in my space. I'm not, I'm not planning on dealing with that. That's something like, we are learning the tools for them to be able to communicate better outside of it. So practice it outside of the session. Like, they can practice it with me, but then, ultimately, I'm not going to be there in their everyday lives. So they have to learn how to do it on their own. So I want to empower them to do that.

[00:20:58] Gwyn: That makes sense. So when you're working with folks, it sounds like you're giving them homework to practice in their own beings.

[00:21:05] Shelby: Yeah,

[00:21:06] Gwyn: Come back and report. How long are your general containers? That

[00:21:10] Shelby: I like to do 3 months. So it's a 12, 12 week program, 3 months. Um, That gives them a pretty solid time of consistently being in a habit, learning how to regulate and having a consistent human to talk to about these things. And then it's like, especially if it's in a group, program, um, they not only have me, but they have the other people within the program to, like, chat with and bounce ideas off of or, you know, talk about their struggles as they're going through stuff there too. So it's a, it's a three month commitment.

[00:21:37] Gwyn: That makes sense. in the group programs, how does that work out? So you have a few people or a bunch of people and you're talking through a lesson or something along those lines?

[00:21:48] Shelby: Yeah, basically. So it's, honestly, it's very much the same type of programming. It's just a matter of whether or not you want my full attention or not. So if you want my full attention, then you do the one on one you pay the more premium price if you want the group coaching, which is cheaper, but also, um, also you get that community, which is really nice. Then there's that side there for you to just get less one on one time with me. Right.

But I do offer, like, in the group one, it's a little bit more like I'll have something that I kind of present and then get the people to do the work, get everyone to do the work in there and then share. Um, if they want to, they don't have to, um, because. It's always a choice you always have the, you know, the availability to choose whether or not you want to be that vulnerable or not, or if it's just for you in that moment. But yeah, it's just kind of like being able to, to learn how to do those exercises together. And, also see kind of like, you know, there's probably going to be different types of attachment styles in that group anyway. So you'll see firsthand how people are reacting in different ways too. So that in itself can be very interesting and a cool like learning avenue. Um,

[00:22:49] Gwyn: I really enjoy the way that communities form in group coaching programs. Who is drawn to you and, who you work with really well,

[00:23:00] Shelby: I figured out a particular community that I really like, which isn't surprising because this is like basically the community I enjoy being in anyway, too, but it's the, it's anyone that's within like the queer community, kink community, polyamory community, um, personal growth. And not always the realm of spirituality, but sometimes like I find that I just find that in like, In the realm of sexuality and expression in that way, um, everyone kind of seems to have their, the connections with everything of being like, there's, you know, they have a spiritual connection that really works for them in whatever way it is as well. Um, they're very interested in personal growth and sexuality. I'm like, these are basically like my top needs here, so let's just go to one place to meet them all. Um, so those that's like, the kind of community that I like to work with. And then I work with everyone and basically except for straight men.

[00:23:49] Gwyn: Cis gendered straight men in particular? Yeah.

[00:23:52] Shelby: Yeah. Well, it's just, and I was, I was, um, I was chatting with someone else earlier about this and it's just that sometimes like straight men still kind of trigger me, to be honest. So I'm like, that's not super helpful to them. Um, but then I also, I've had experiences where I'm kind of like, I don't know whether you're here to actually do the coaching or cause you want to spend time with me. And like, I'm here for the coaching and I want you to be here for the coaching too.

[00:24:13] Gwyn: Sure. That makes sense. Do, are you working on, uh, do you have a launch coming up or is there anything in specific that you want to promote?

[00:24:20] Shelby: I do have, like, I just have different types of freebies and stuff that are, that I have available for people that are interested in them in general. Um, so I have like this intimacy, It's a yes, no, maybe list. Um, so that's my intimacy list. And there's like an emotional column and then a physical column. So people can kind of like, look through that and get some ideas of how to create intimacy on both those levels with their partners. Um, so I've got that, and then I'm working on, it's um, like a private podcast series, which is attachment styles and intimacy. So I've got, I've got that freebie coming out too. I just have, again, I'm working on that one, so I don't know, Timing of it yet, but that's coming.

[00:24:55] Gwyn: Sure enough. Fair enough.

[00:24:56] Shelby: But yeah, but I've kind of got those. So and then I put what my coaching programs are called the intimacy incubators. So whether that's one on one or the group coaching,

[00:25:05] Gwyn: that's a great name.

[00:25:06] Shelby: thank you.

[00:25:08] Gwyn: Do you find that folks come back again and again, or are they getting what they need from the program the first time around, do you think?

[00:25:16] Shelby: I definitely think that they get what they need out of the first round, but, um, sometimes they'll come back and want to work on something else too. So they might want to work like through my program. It is mostly like relationship based and like what I've kind of already talked about. Um, Understanding those needs and boundaries and stuff, but then if people want to work more, so this is, and I love doing this, but most more so I want to work on the side of sexuality and healing in that way, especially with something like the realm of kink. It's really, it's like, it's really, really interesting and fun conversation to be like, okay, so when we switch over here now, let's, let's apply what our needs are into the realm of kink and the realm of sex and sexuality. And like, let's just see where that plays or into Tantra, like whatever it is that there's the realm of sexuality in general.

Like what, how, you know, if you are a more spiritual person, then you might lean to something more energetic, like Tantra. But at the same time, there is a certain energy that falls into the realm of kink too in the power play dynamics between partners. So is that the type of energy that you're looking for? Um, can then need be met in that way? Or are again, like, how does this show up for you? How do you want to meet it? And so having conversations like that are really, really interesting and fun for me. I like having those. Um, and I like to, um, help people also like realize how they can create better self consent in their bodies, especially regarding their sexual endeavors kind of thing.

Cause there's a lot of people, I think all, potentially all people probably have gone way past what their self consent boundaries are and they're like, yeah, never mind. We're fine. Like, we're just going to kind of like, push through this, keep going, like, want the connection. I want the whatever it is. Don't want to be rejected. Um, I'm just going to push through this so that I can get this other connection, which is sex, which is good too, but we still want that safety and emotional connection that's there. As well, so it's like, I just, yeah, I really like having those conversations and starting to recognize that.

And then there's a certain amount of, like, healing and trauma healing that can come from sex in itself too. So, the way that trauma can show up during sex would be very interesting. So, and it's not really talked about a lot, um, but people can dissociate so they might not, seem like they're really there anymore. And it's because they're not, they've left their body because they're having a trauma response, but they might not even be recognizing this.

So if your partner is recognizing this, then maybe like saying, I, I think we should stop, stop and then have this conversation to be like, you know, are you okay? Where are you right now? Like, are you actually present here with me? Or did your mind go somewhere? Because I feel like you left the room. I feel like you're somewhere else. Um, And again, they may not know that right away. Some people will, but, being able to kind of like start to recognize that is, is important. And then there's other things where I think, like I've, I've experienced this where, like with orgasm, there can be, you could like, I'll sometimes I'll orgasm and then I'll cry. And, and that's kind of like, it seems weird, but it's like, all of a sudden, all of this, um, availability of, like, release.

It's this, this channel that we've just opened. This vulnerability of being able to have an orgasm, like a gift of an orgasm, but then it opens up that emotional channel too. May start to cry or some, I think some people laugh. I haven't had that experience yet. Um, after an orgasm, but, um, yeah, sometimes that can happen. And then sometimes you can get like. These energetic like shakes and body waving, which is again, another way that trauma can be released. Or if you're a very energetic type of person, you might be having like, shock waves of energetic orgasm. So it can kind of be like one or the other. So it's really interesting way to play with, um, sexual energy and sex and orgasm and like, in all all things.

[00:28:52] Gwyn: Yeah, being open to the energy is, is huge. Crygasms

[00:28:57] Shelby: Yeah,

[00:28:57] Gwyn: huge.

[00:28:58] Shelby: yeah. I fully believe that intimacy can help in so many ways. It brings pleasure. It helps relax us. It can help the world be a better place because when we feel good we spread that joy to those around us. However, if you're not feeling good in your body, you can't even get there. Lucky for us a company called Momotaro Apotheca, has created a beautiful salve to help us with vulva discomfort. this all natural salve can bring wellness without the shame. stigma, or scare tactics Each ingredient in their signature salve was built for safe, regular use, includes vitamins, and is antioxidant rich. It feels delicious and there is not a single factory produced chemical in it. All you need is a tiny pea sized amount to help out anywhere and I enjoyed it so much I'm putting it on my tattoos and other patches of skin that tend to get dry and irritated. Momotaro Apotheca is wonderful and they have so many products. All natural. You can feel safe. putting them where they should go. I very much appreciate Sex Geek Summer Camp and Momotaro Apotheca for providing me with this wonderful all natural salve. If you want to learn more, please visit MomotaroApotheca. com.

[00:30:36] Gwyn: Yeah, all of that. and it reminds me, one of the things that I wrote down that I wanted to talk more about was emotional blockages and your self consent, which I've never heard anybody use that. I love it. Love it. I'm going to steal it. Um, and, but so self consent and emotional blockages and the way that these energy waves can be in us and around us, um, they all really come together really nicely. Can you talk more about that? Like I really, I'm fascinated about this piece of it.

[00:31:08] Shelby: Oh, yeah, I can touch on like the self consent part to start off with and kind of go from there. So this was something that I just started working on a little more recently for myself too, because there, um, for me, I had like this. A repressed memory that came up in, in therapy I was doing. So it was like EMDR therapy and it, and I just like, I did okay. Repressed memory for a reason. And so like the, the, basically the trauma was coming up and out of my body after that. And so I had to relearn how to work with my body in a, in a way, cause I was, I was also in a relationship that wasn't good. So I was dysregulated all the time and nervous system was shot. Um, wasn't feeling good about myself.

Then had this memory come up and I was like, I , I like, I am so sensitive and I just need to like, figure out how to, how to, how to do this again. So I remember like, there was one day where I was like, I, I, I just tried to put, like, I tried to put my hands on my body and I, I couldn't, like, it was hard for me to even like touch myself kind of thing. I couldn't, My body was very much saying no, and I was like, okay. I won't, then I'm just going to like, cry and just let that be okay. And then recognizing that there's, um, like different points in time for like pleasure sessions and stuff. It's like, you know, am I, I'm just going too fast or like pressure is too much. I need like, something needs to be lighter or softer, gentler, like a longer, just longer process, longer, slower process. Um, like there's no reason that I need to force myself to find pleasure.

Like that's, I think that's kind of like the opposite of what you're trying to do here. Right. So it's, um, so it was like, yeah, this reworking of self consent and really listening to what my body was saying to me, like, I don't like that, or I do like that. Do more of that just this way for a little bit longer. And then maybe we can change things up. Maybe we can use more pressure or go faster or do, or like, or maybe we just need to stop. Cause sometimes I would kind of like get to a certain point of pleasure and all of a sudden it would just drop off. And I was like, okay, I guess. Like, I guess that's it for today. And being okay with it.

And I feel like that in itself is very much like a lot of like sexuality can show up with, with partners too. So sometimes like, you know, it doesn't have to be that you want to, um, that you have to finish with both people orgasming. You can both just have this pleasure session, which is all about being more sensual or having these, you know, these different types of sensations and building pleasure and erotic energy within you and just like enjoying. Each other's company and connection and bodies. Um, and that can be it. And it's, and it's like really, really nice too.

[00:33:46] Gwyn: Yeah, absolutely. if I were on a personal crusade, it would be that

[00:33:51] Shelby: Yeah, yeah,

[00:33:53] Gwyn: that sex does not have to lead to orgasm and sensuality does not have to lead to sex and sex can be anything you want, including just staring deeply into each other's eyes. If that's the on, um, Yeah, so thank you for sharing so personally. I appreciate that. Um, is there anything that you want to be sure that we talk about?

[00:34:18] Shelby: I think actually, to be honest, I think we kind of talked about a lot of the stuff that I, that I really enjoy, but I know that there is this other avenue, which, um, I'm surprised that people don't know about this, but this is just like another resource that I learned along the way, um, they're called the erotic blueprints and it's by, um, Jaiya. Do you know of them? Okay. Yeah. So I just, I think it's like such a good resource for people to go and check out. Cause it's, um, like if you don't know, or if you want to know more about your sexuality, this is going to tell you a lot of really great stuff. And like, this is all kind of utilize this in some of my coaching too. Cause again, people's people's sexuality will present themselves as they talk about certain things.

I'm like, Oh, well you sound like you're in this particular category. Um, so basically it's, you know, there's I think five different categories and it's, um, energetic um, sensual, kinky, like sexual physical, and then, um, a shape shifter, which is everything. And if you and your partner have different, like erotic languages, that can be something that might really be causing an issue in your sex life. Right? So if you start to understand what those look like, then you can start to start to like be able to, again, like use all the things that I basically teach anyway, communicate and communicate your needs and, and boundaries and like what you want to try, what you don't want to try with each other.

Whether it's like a sexual plus, uh, a sensual person, they need to figure out, okay, how do I do, how do we make this work for the both of us? Right? Um, but then, yeah, understanding that okay, if I am sensual, that means that literally all of my senses need to be engaged in different ways and then certain things will distract me, like the wrong song comes on, or the lighting is off or something feels uncomfortable to me. Like those things are going to throw me off versus if it's a sexual, they'll be like. Okay. None of that matters to me. I just want to, like, grab and touch and, and be very physical with you and that works for me. But that's not, that's like too much for a sensual, if it's done too quickly. Sensuals like to take time. Sexuals are usually kind of like, Let's go! So it's just different and you seem to be able to learn how to talk about it and explore each other more with that knowledge,

[00:36:20] Gwyn: Right, right. Having the knowledge and being open to the communication is so, so key. Did you study with Jaiya? Did you take her

[00:36:29] Shelby: I took, I just took her, um, I took her, the quiz, and then I've taken one of her courses. I'm she's got a new book at which I'm reading now, and then I'm actually going to go and do one of her, uh, she has a, I think it's called pleasure island. That she's doing later in the year, which, um, I'm going to go to, cause I was kind of like, yeah, I feel like this would be really, really fun. There's gonna be a lot of humans that are like minded and I, I would love to create more community. So, I'm going to go to that later this year, which I'm excited about.

[00:36:56] Gwyn: That's awesome. I haven't paid attention to her in the past year or so. I've been very self absorbed actually.

[00:37:03] Shelby: That's okay.

[00:37:03] Gwyn: Yeah, family stuff. It, yeah, it doesn't matter, but, uh, I will definitely check that out. Cause I am desperately in need of community. Um, do you offer your programs online or in person or both?

[00:37:17] Shelby: Online in particular,

[00:37:20] Gwyn: And so then it doesn't matter at all where somebody is.

[00:37:23] Shelby: no, no, as long as they have access to Internet and they feel safe in their environment to vulnerably talk with me. It's all I need.

[00:37:30] Gwyn: That's wonderful. So I like to finish off the show with asking one final question, which is Shelby Avann, what excites you? [

00:37:40] Shelby: What really excites me is, knowing that people are able to like myself included, we're able to change the world. Maybe a little bit cheesy, but like in the way in what we learn. And as we heal, we are able to influence and lead others based off of how we show up and present ourselves. And I think that's a really, really beautiful thing. And that makes me very excited because I think that that's something that's really needed.

And I love the idea of having that be so impactful that at some point in time, like the leaders of the world are also going to be able to be doing work like this and really be able to lead in a way that's really healthy versus the way that it's kind of going at the moment at this particular moment in time, which I don't feel is super great. There's a lot of, I just see it like, oh man, there's so much trauma and you need to do some, he does work sirs.

[00:38:32] Gwyn: Right. Please, please, sir.

[00:38:35] Shelby: yeah, but yeah, but we can, we can impact our communities and, um, you know, the people that are in our lives. And even if we do do it small steps at a time where we are helping people change and. Even if it's a small impact, there's a whole bunch of people doing that. Like, just think of you know, how many ripples we can put in the water by doing that. And how many of them will eventually connect.

[00:38:55] Gwyn: I love that. That's truly a beautiful response. Thank you.

[00:39:01] Shelby: Yeah, no problem.

[00:39:09] Gwyn: Okay. What was your favorite takeaway from this chat? Mine was how important self consent is. And how does something that we just don't talk about enough? You can tell me yours in the Facebook group, or by going to whatexcitesus.com and sending a voice message by clicking the SpeakPipe button. Or sending an email. I really, really, really do want to know what you think.

If you would like to learn more about Shelby Avann and what programs she is currently offering, please go to her website at ShelbyAvann.ca. That's S H E L B Y. A V A N N.ca.

Or you can follow her on Instagram. She is the intimacy mistress there.

One last thing from me. If you enjoy what you hear, please consider joining my Patreon where you get bonus content. Raw unedited episodes and a chance to work with me regularly.

Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate you. And remember that you are loved because I love you.