What Excites Us!

[00:00:00] Gwyn: Hello and welcome to What Excites Us! I'm Gwyn Isaacs, a sex coach and educator, and it's been a minute since I've been here. And to be honest, I'm not really back yet now either. However, I was a guest on another podcast and I thought y'all might like to hear that. It's kind of fun to be the guest instead of the host, and you might get some ideas about what it is that I do or just enjoy listening to folks talk about sex I don't know. In any case, I also wanted to give you a little bit of a follow up on my absence.

[00:00:51] I believe my last podcast came out in July, and since then I had my left hip replaced. And I moved out of an apartment and more full-time into another apartment. Although I will still continue to go back and forth between Brooklyn and Vermont, I just won't be paying for an apartment up there.

[00:01:15] And that was all really exhausting. So exhausting. I mean, the hip surgery went really, really well. All the doctors and the PT therapists and everybody's pleased with the way things are moving along. I, of course, am a little bit frustrated that it's not happening faster, but that's part of who I am, I guess. And so I'm just doing what I need to do and stretching and walking and doing some yoga and you know, trying to get my physical shape back to where I'm comfortable. But the move, oh my goodness, the move, it was six weeks of. Uh, drudgery, stress overwhelm. Yeah, a lot of that, you know, when you pick up every object and you have to make a decision about it.

[00:02:13] In 2020 actually, I moved out of my big house and down into this apartment. So I've already done a fair amount of this. But, you know, going from an apartment in Montpelier, apartments are reasonably sized to an apartment in Brooklyn. Oy Yeah. So lots of stuff went away. Lots of stuff is in storage waiting for me to figure it out. I am still trying to figure out what to do with all my plant babies and how much light I need to get and tables for them, that sort of thing. And I'll still be going back and forth, like I said, plus there's more stuff that needs to come out of where it is in storage, yada, yada, yada. But I miss y'all and I miss doing this podcast and I just want to dip my toe back in. I'm really not quite ready to start putting out episodes yet. I need to do some work on the tech side.

[00:03:23] I was not happy with the way things were sounding, and I'm actually considering getting a master's degree and learning some real genuine skills or something like that. Anywho. In the meantime, I have this wonderful episode hosted by Katie Ploss. Thank you, Katie. Her show is called, Bitch, You Need to Hear This. And it's really fun. I like who she chats with and what her conversations are about, and I really enjoyed the conversation that we had. Hopefully you will too. 

[00:04:01] Thanks for listening, and stay tuned after the episode I'll come back and tell you a little bit more.

[00:04:07] Katie: Bitch, you need to hear this.

[00:04:26] Hello, Hello, and welcome to the Bitch Podcast in all of the land with your host Katie p for this week's episode of Bitch. You need to hear this and I've got a good one this week my ladies, and it's been a highly requested episode, um, for quite some time now. So I am very excited that this is dropping for you all this week and we are gonna finally talk about sex.

[00:04:54] Let's talk about sex, baby. And I have a sex coach on the podcast y'all have been asking me for a while now. And um, I. Somehow made it happen. So yay for me, but also yay for you because I'm excited. You guys are gonna learn, you're gonna get educated today. Um, so my co-host today is Gwyn Isaacs. 

[00:05:19] Gwyn: Welcome. Hi Katie. So excited to be here.

[00:05:22] Katie: Hi. Thank you for being here. I'm so excited to have you here and I know the listeners are too. Um, so before we kind of dive in and start talking about all things sexual, tell me a little bit about yourself. I, I know you like we, before we started recording you guys, Gwen was saying that, you know, she's been listening to my show a little bit and kind of learned a little bit about me, but I kind of, I'm going in a little bit blind, so I wanna hear your story.

[00:05:47] Gwyn: Oh my gosh. Um, . So I have a, a very multifaceted story. I'll try to keep it to the sex stuff. Um, , So I'm a sex coach and educator. I've been doing that since about 2017. Prior to that, I wore a ton of different professional hats, all of which are interesting, but probably not relevant. Mm-hmm. But I was always that kid that people would come to and ask questions, you know, sex questions

[00:06:15] Katie: Yes.

[00:06:15] Gwyn: Or, or relationship questions. I wrote my first very bad, and I'm not a comedian, but, uh, like I remembered how, which one was horizontal and which one was vertical by saying, when you get horny, you get horizontal at 11. Of course, I had no context that, you know, you don't need to get horizontal when you're horny, but whatever

[00:06:40] It was the thing that helped, it was the monic for me. So that's who I am. That's where I've been my whole life. And then love it. Um, you know, I, I had a pretty intense personal sexual journey. Mm-hmm. . And when I realized that I could. Do this as a job and help people, um, hopefully never have to feel the way that I felt. I, I was right there. I was like, Yeah, sign me up. And I took a really intense certification program and I've been practicing ever since. 

[00:07:15] Katie: That's amazing. And I'm so glad that there's more people doing, There's people that do this. I think it's so needed. Sometimes I feel like sex coaches can be hard to find. I don't, and I mean, I do live in like a pretty conservative area in the Midwest, so that is probably a huge part of that. But , I mean, I, I feel like it's, it's very needed especially in, you know, today's day and age. And I too, you know, ha have had quite a, what did you call it? Like, your sex journey and the sexuality. Yeah, yeah. I mean, same. So I think we all, and myself included, can, could benefit from a sex coach. Kind of tell us a little bit too, you know, about what your big me, your main message for your clients are. Like, what's kind of your niche as far as sex coaching? What do you like to focus on, specialize in, or really communicate to all your clients?

[00:08:06] Gwyn: Well, the, the biggest thing that I like to communicate is that we are all okay. And that whatever your desires are are okay. Assuming that, you know, you don't wanna harm yourself or anyone else. Yeah. Um, what I specialize in is kink and polyamory, but I take clients in any situation. Mm. I take clients in lots of situations,

[00:08:32] Katie: Yeah. So have you like, I mean, do you take, do you ever, have you ever had a, like a potential client come to you and say like, I have these fetishes that are dangerous or are unhealthy or do wanna hurt someone else? Like, I mean, for me, you know, cuz I'm also a, a psychologist and a therapist, like one, you know, hard stop for me that I just don't think that I've never had to work with anyone. Like, and I don't know if I can do it is like pedophilia. Like I don't, I don't know if I can do that. Like, is that something that you're open to exploring, like helping clients like form healthy associations with their sexuality and find healthy things that they like? 

[00:09:11] Gwyn: Um, yes. And if it was something like that, like pedophilia specifically, um, or intense self harm mm-hmm. I would ask that they also see a therapist. Yeah. Because that's really important. I don't have that level of training. . Yeah. I mean, I do a lot of therapy with clients, but we always discuss the fact that I am not, I don't have a master's degree. I don't have that, that license. Mm-hmm. Um, i, Well, and we know, been in therapy for, you know, decades, so Yeah.

[00:09:47] Katie: And we know that, I mean, a lot of individuals that, you know, have. Fetishes, or I don't even know if we wanna call it a fetish, but that have, um, pedophilia or whatever. I mean, they likely have had significant trauma and likely sexual abuse in their own history. So obviously therapy is super important to address.

[00:10:06] Gwyn: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And, and, and more than that, someone who comes seeking help for pedophilia is far less likely to actually do it . 

[00:10:19] Katie: That's true, that's true. 

[00:10:21] Gwyn: Um, they, they tend to fall into, you know, the OCD categories. Mm-hmm. or, or, uh, other things that I, again, I'm not actually qualified to diagnose.

[00:10:33] Katie: Yeah. It's just, 

[00:10:34] Gwyn: But I have dealt with people who have other relatively extreme taboos and. And I always fall back on, if you're not harming yourself and you're not harming anybody else, let's figure out how to explore this in a safe way. And a lot of times the difference between wanting to do something actually and having a fantasy is vast.

[00:10:58] Yeah. You know, I mean, there are, That's true. 75% of women, uh, self report that they have rape or ravishment fantasies. I don't know a single woman who actually wants to be raped. 

[00:11:11] Katie: Okay. Yeah. No, and that Okay, that's a great point because I like love, you know, like, Well, I, yeah, no, I still do. I love all like those romance books, like 50 Shades of Gray, 365. I'm like, were they like, the guys like super possessive. And then in real life I'm like, Oh my God, I would absolutely hate that . You know, like, I think that is super normal. And that should be normalized of like some of the things you think or think about sexually or the type of porn you like to watch. Or whatever, you know, doesn't mean that you wanna act on it or do it. And I think sometimes people feel a lot of shame for that, even having the fantasy of that. 

[00:11:45] Gwyn: Yeah. I mean, I know lesbians who like watching gay male porn for what gets them off and clearly they're not interested in being a gay man. 

[00:11:52] Katie: Yeah. Wow. Interesting. 

[00:11:54] Gwyn: Yeah. Yeah. Um, what we want to consume and what our brains do when we're, uh, trying to get into the mood really doesn't mean anything for what you actually physically want to do with your body.

[00:12:08] Yeah, it can, but it doesn't have to. 

[00:12:12] Katie: So do you, do a lot of clients come to you and want to work toward, like, trying out some of their fantasies? Like when do most people take the, get to the point of hiring a sex coach? Like most commonly, what are your referral concerns for from clients? 

[00:12:27] Gwyn: Well, it's, it's so, it's really such a wide, people come to me for all sorts of different reasons. Um, I've had a lot of women who came to me because they grew up in very conservative or even purity culture backgrounds. And after 20, 25, 30 years of shutting down their sexuality, now they're having trouble accessing it. Mm-hmm. . Um, I've had people come to me with mismatched libido issues where they want more or less than their partner and trying to figure that out.

[00:13:02] Um, I've definitely had people looking for a gender exploration and what that means to them, or kink exploration. And, you know, uh, I'd say that the, the biggest question that I get, which is, um, one that we try not to use is, am I normal? That, that at least 75% of what. If I boiled everything down, it would come to, am I normal? Um, and the answer is always yes, yeah, always. 

[00:13:34] Katie: But I think that's, that's a, it's a good point to make. Or, you know, a good thing to put shed light on is that we all just kind of wanna be seen and not judged. And sexuality is such a vulnerable, intimate part of our, of, of our lives that we all collectively like experience, but in private, if that makes sense. So I think a lot of people question if they're quote unquote normal or if their desires or their. Yeah, struggles. 

[00:14:01] Gwyn: We're not, we're not taught anything about sex. If, if we are lucky enough to have any type of sexual education from schools, it's uh, it's dangerous. And there are diseases, right? There's never anything about pleasure.

[00:14:17] Katie: Oh my God. Forget. Well, I mean, you have about, I don't know, 50% of the country that maybe I'm, I don't know what, No, I'm not exaggerating in 2022, I don't, with everything going on in the world right now, it really is like 50% of the country. But I feel that there is a large group of people that don't believe in comprehensive sex education, and they think that there are poisoning children and that were sexualizing children, um, from a young age. And, you know, I have a, I, so I have a background in child development and educational psychology. So like education and children are, Specialty and professionally, and I couldn't disagree with that more like that were that schools are sexualizing children by delivering comprehensive sexual education. I was just in my Instagram dms literally today arguing this issue with somebody

[00:15:11] and to me it's just so clear and I, I really can't relate to like the, the, that argument that it, that it's up to the parent to teach the sub to their child because I mean, like the reality is we can say that all day long, but the reality is, is that if we allow, if we say that, then millions of children will never get sex ed ever.

[00:15:33] Gwyn: Yes. And so I have a, I have a few things to say about that. One. One is if you take something off the table, the kid wants to explore it more. Like, I don't know, a kid that's not curious. Yeah. Um, second of all, if you treat it like it's a normal thing, again, with that word, normal, but natural, like, because we have bodies and sexual function is a part of being a human, if we treat it that way, it takes away a lot of that stigma and the kid is actually less inclined to want to pursue it.

[00:16:04] Katie: It's, Well, my my big point that I feel like I wanna talk about too is that schools aren't just arbitrarily, you know, like the person I was arguing with today, they're like, Well, like why do, why do fourth graders need to know all that? And it. The sex education that a fourth grader is getting, doesn't, it should not, and does not look the same as the sex ed that a senior in high school would get.

[00:16:28] Yeah. Like we make sure that it's developmentally appropriate, but it does start from a pretty young age. I mean, and there are plenty of studies and, and research in whatever out there that, I mean, people start masturbating as early as like, I mean, toddlerhood. 

[00:16:47] Gwyn: Oh, in the womb? 

[00:16:47] Katie: In the womb. Oh, well, okay, I didn't know that.

[00:16:49] Gwyn: But in the womb because, because it feels good, because their genitals feel good to touch, 

[00:16:56] Katie: know what it means, but you know, it feels good and Yeah. 

[00:17:00] Gwyn: And, and the moment you put shame on that, it makes it really difficult for kids. And really, Yeah. Fourth graders should be learning about things like boundaries. Yes. And, and what body parts. And what their names are, and that's a, that's really all they need 

[00:17:14] Katie: and, and who and who to ask questions to. 

[00:17:17] Gwyn: Right. 

[00:17:17] Katie: And how to treat each other when, you know, like when, if you're not, like I was saying someone today, it's like, what if a, you know, or this fourth grade class, one girl was, you know, going through puberty super early and everyone in her class is making fun of her. Like, because they didn't understand or they didn't know, or, you know, whatever. It's like there are conversations to have with 8, 9, 10 year. About our bodies and about sexuality that are developmentally appropriate. 

[00:17:41] Gwyn: Yeah. And I remember the third point, which is most teenagers don't really wanna talk to their parents about this.

[00:17:50] Katie: No. They certainly do not

[00:17:52] Gwyn: they wanna have another trusted adult in their lives to talk to. I mean, I'm a sex coach. My kids came to me by default, but I could tell that they really didn't want to , you know, like, I guess I'll talk to you once they hit like 13 or 14, They're like, Yeah, no, I'm gonna talk to somebody else. They would come to me with their friends concerns, which I think was really amazing. Um, but, but their own things, they, they just, no, that was too close for comfort. And that's fine. Like, I respect that, you know? 

[00:18:26] Katie: Yeah. No, I totally. I, I totally agree, but I, I, I do think that it, it's just amazing to me, like being in the society that we're in now, we're recording this right on the heels of this Roe v. Wade overturn, and you know that there's, that evokes so many emotions for women, right? Guilt, anger loss, um, grief, sadness, you know, all, all these feelings. And then you have, again, like 50% of the population that have these toxic, um, I don't know, like belief sets and rhetoric of like, well, you know, keep your legs closed and just rat, like, use a condom or use birth control and don't get pregnant and, and putting all the blame and shame on the woman, right?

[00:19:14] For having, having to make that choice of an abortion and not now not all women having the right to do so based on what state they live in. And it's, but it's amazing because these same people that, that have these like super, super conservative beliefs about that also don't wanna educate anybody about sex.

[00:19:36] And they want to keep us all in, like, I feel like they wanna keep people in the dark and quiet. And it's like it, to me, there, there's such contradictory things. It's like you don't wanna educate people on how to keep themselves safe and how to prevent pregnancy from happening in the first place. You also don't want to, um, give people the resources to act when conception is possibly taken place.

[00:20:02] And you, we should outlaw things like plan B or even birth control. And furthermore, we're gonna force women to have birth and then we're not gonna educate their children either. And we're just gonna keep going on this cycle. And it's fascinating to me. 

[00:20:18] Gwyn: Well, it's not really about. Protecting babies lives because that were the case. They would actually, you know, pay for preschool and people would've maternity leave and other things that developed nations have all over the world. It's about keeping humans in line so that they can, uh, maintain their power and greed. 

[00:20:37] Katie: Yes. And it's just, and it does, I mean, it does invoke a lot of anger in Me too, but I mean, it's just been so interesting. You know, I have a lot of different diverse people in my life and I have people in my life that sit at both sides of this argument. And, you know, as calmly and as articulately as I can, have discussions with people that, you know, are not pro-choice or whatever are, are just very pro-birth. Um, it, I just, I can't relate to the logic and, and I also have a really hard time understanding how they don't, how these, how they don't see how it doesn't add up.

[00:21:17] Like the math ain't math in here. I'm no mathematician, but like, it makes no sense. Yeah. So, so it's like how in, in a world like that, that, that we're in right now, in a society that we're in as Americans, how do we even begin to become empowered sexually? Like, and now I'm, I'm reading women posting. I don't wanna have sex. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't even wanna explore that anymore because I, I, I think the risks outweigh the benefit. 

 [00:21:46] Gwyn: Well, I can't blame them. Um, however, I would caution against shutting down your libido entirely because it really is a helpful part of being a human. Mm-hmm. , um, sexual function, but it doesn't have to involve sex with anybody else.

[00:22:02] Katie: Yeah. 

[00:22:02] Gwyn: Uh, you can absolutely, uh, love on yourself and have wonderful, fantastic, euphoric orgasms, if that's even your goal. Having an orgasm doesn't need to be the goal of sex. Just feeling good can be a really powerful goal that a lot of women don't even know what it is that they want in order to feel good.

[00:22:27] Katie: I know so many women that, and it blows my mind cuz I've really never been like this. I've always. I've always been, you know, more of a sexual being and I've gotten a lot of flack for that. Even on this podcast of like, talking about my, the little, I do talk about my sex life. I get flack for it, um, in my, in my real life.

[00:22:48] But it's fascinating to me that I know so many women that don't have never masturbated and they're adults, they've never masturbated. And I'm like, That's sad. Or they've never had an orgasm before. Ever. 

[00:23:01] Gwyn: Yeah. Yep. That kind of breaks my heart. 

[00:23:05] Katie: Me too. I mean, I, And not, Yeah, like orgasms feel really good, but it, but like you said, I mean, it is a basic human need. Like it's, you know, ma, it's on the Maslow hierarchy of needs pyramid. You guys, It's at the bottom. We're close to the bottom. 

[00:23:21] Gwyn: Sure. I mean, it's associated with the root chakra too, if you wanna. Pull that into it too. 

[00:23:26] Katie: Yeah. Get new agey and all that. Yeah, totally.

[00:23:29] Gwyn: But it releases, I mean like just on a chemical level, feeling good, releases hormones that help you feel good. Right. It, it's a, it's a self-propelling spiral. 

[00:23:41] Katie: Yeah. And I mean it's, it's, I don't know, it's just, but it's one of those things that. Is super natural. And, but we as a collective don't see that as natural, as like having a period or whatever. 

[00:23:54] Gwyn: And I think that's part of what's wrong with the cultures that are so intensely, Um, uh, Sharia law basically. Um mm-hmm you know, that, that shut down sexuality, uh, conservative, religious based. Not all of them are that. I think that once you shut down that sexuality, you shut down a whole part of who you are. Mm-hmm. , and you forget how to access that. 

[00:24:25] Katie: Yeah. No. And I, but, but it's like, no wonder, I mean, we're in a society that we can't even acknowledge that we are sexual beings that like, have, like, need to have orgasms or whatever. It's like, no wonder we're all ashamed for every kink or fetish or any sexual thought that we have. 

[00:24:44] Gwyn: And then when all of that gets shut down, you are, um, repressing who you are. And so you are much more likely to be an asshole to other people. 

[00:24:54] Katie: You mean? Well in general, or do you mean like in like relationally?

[00:24:57] Gwyn: Like, I mean in general. I mean, if, if, if you are grumpier for sure. If you're not, if you're a miserable person, you are far more likely to strike out at other people. 

[00:25:07] Katie: Yeah. And I mean, how, like, I don't know, I feel like pretty often it's like there's just some like crotchety like old lady at work and I'm like, damn, she really needs to like, get laid or have an orgasm. It'll just relax you so much.

[00:25:19] Gwyn: right? 

[00:25:20] Katie: It's like just people are so on edge intense and it's like if you just, you know, had a little quick release, you'd probably feel a lot better.

[00:25:28] Gwyn: Right? It's like it's nature's uh, uh, nature's candy is the word that's coming to mind. But, um, nature's uh, uh, relaxation. 

[00:25:37] Katie: What are the chemicals like that happen, um, in the brain during orgasm?

[00:25:42] Gwyn: Dopamine, serotonin, norine. I can never get that one. norepinephrine. Thank you. . Dopamine, oxytocin, Serotonin. No. And there's one more. I always forget the fourth 

[00:25:55] Katie: one, not oxytocin. Um, no, 

[00:25:59] Gwyn: it is, is it? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Oxytocin. So the, the gut brain connection is pretty important. Um, but I, and this is really metaphysical and I have no actual proof, even metaphysical proof for this, but it feels to me that if everything doesn't keep moving, that stuff gets stuck.

[00:26:21] Right. Energetically, you mean? Yeah. Mm-hmm. in an energetic realm and, and then our whole being sort of get stuck and we start shutting down. Orgasm in specific, or just even practicing feeling good on a regular basis, um, which you can do with music or, you know, a lovely picnic and sunset. Like all of that sort of helps keep things flowing in a way that you can access pleasure more frequently and feel better more often.

[00:26:54] Katie: So what, like, how do you coach clients kind of through, if a woman comes to you and is like, I really need to like, explore my sexuality. I don't orgasm, I don't masturbate. Like, where do you start? Um, 

[00:27:07] Gwyn: okay. For someone who would come to me with like, they just, they don't even, just don't even touch themselves.

[00:27:13] Yeah. I would. With a lot of questions. Um, I start everything with a lot of questions. Mm-hmm. . Um, and then we would, we would sort of assess, you know, where the sticky spots were, because I don't wanna dive into that immediately. Right. Cuz that might put some people off and, and we want to, um, first, uh, praise them for being brave enough to come and do this because this is really hard.

[00:27:43] Yeah. And, um, so, so there's lots of that. And then it's a very slow start to, would you feel comfortable touching your breasts? Okay. Let's have you practice that. And then the next time we'll get together. How did that feel? And if it was too much, then I'd be like, Okay, that's fine. Let's start with like gentle stroking on your arms and maybe your hair, maybe take a luscious bath.

[00:28:10] So we really wanna start people with where they are. 

[00:28:14] Katie: So just slowly kind of easing into sensuality and like being kind of one with your physical Yeah. Sexuality. No, I think that's beautiful and I think anyone could benefit from that really. Even if you do regularly orgasm, just kind of go back and like just explore some of those things. Especially like, I don't know. I think that that's healthy for everybody to kinda revisit and refresh themselves with their own sensuality.

[00:28:40] Gwyn: Self dates is honestly one of my favorite things to assign to people. 

[00:28:44] Katie: Yeah. I love that. Self love

[00:28:47] Gwyn: and like the whole thing. Like, take yourself out to a movie, get a fancy dessert. Um, run a bath if that's the thing you like. Put on music that you enjoy. Like candles or scents, like whatever. You wanna really talk to all of your senses and get them engaged. And then proceed to whatever comes next. Just like on a regular date. 

[00:29:09] Katie: Wine and dine yourselves, ladies. 

[00:29:11] Gwyn: Exactly. , exactly.

[00:29:14] Katie: No, I absolutely love that. So what about the women that, so I'm, because I, you know, I, I think about all my listeners in their, and their different sexual experiences, but what about the women that either don't explore their bodies or just don't know about their bodies and they're trying to, maybe they're exploring, you know, sensuality and, and orgasming them with themselves, or they're trying to figure things out with a partner and like, do you provide education or talk about, you know, like the physical, um, you know, what you're working with down there as far as like your vulva, your clitoris and all that?

[00:29:53] Cause I did not, There was a lot that I thought I knew everything because I kind of was like you when I was like 11 and 12 and I was obsessed with learning about. Stuff. I would read all these books and like my mom would, you know, let me like just, you know, with like, you know, good books or whatever. But she would let me educate myself as whatever I was interested in understanding at that age.

[00:30:13] And I was kind of like the sex guru for some of my friends cuz they knew that I had all this literature . And so I remember though, like even so I learned, I thought because of that I like knew everything about women's anatomy. And then like over the last year or so, I don't know if you guys have been watching like Netflix documentaries, but there have been a couple, like Gweneth Poro did a Goop one and she did a mini-series about women's sexuality.

[00:30:41] And then there was another one that's like, oh shit, I'm blanking on the name of it. But it was like love and pleasure. Or something. And it was a mini documentary as well, and about just, not just women, but just sexuality and pleasure in general. And they did a whole episode on women's anatomy and like, I didn't realize the clitoris is not just a little ball of nerves.

[00:31:04] It's actually like way bigger than that. . Yeah. And like more, And I like, they like showed like a, they pulled out like a 3D diagram of a clitoris and then like someone else had like this clitoris pillow and I'm like, Oh my God. I never knew it looked like that. And I just feel like so many people, like so many women, do not even realize what their own body is or looks like or how it even works. 

[00:31:27] Gwyn: Absolutely. Um, I did an episode on the, the clitoris. I called it the clitardis cuz I'm a doctor who freak, um I love it. I have a vulva puppet. I, I do needle felting and I actually, the thing that I needle felt the most is clitorises is um, Cause they're adorable. Um, I love it.

[00:31:46] I love it. And yeah, I absolutely start with, uh, physicality anatomy because we don't know, I mean, I know women who are full grown who didn't know that the urethra wasn't a part of the clitoris. They were surprised by the extra hole. 

[00:32:04] Katie: Um, like the, that the urethra has an extra hole. Yeah. 

[00:32:07] Gwyn: That the youth, that the urethra isn't a part of the, the nubbin of the clitoris that we see. Yeah, 

[00:32:13] Katie: yeah. No, I know. People don't know that. They don't realize, 

[00:32:16] Gwyn: We don't know. And so, yeah, there's a lot of exploring, um, your, your body and for people who, um, when they're at a place that they're ready to do that, I have them pull out a mirror. Mm-hmm. And, and, and spend some time with that. Um, there are people who we can't go there. And even getting them to stand naked in front of a mirror is a big deal. Mm-hmm. . Um, which is fine. We, again, we start wherever you are, but, um, when you're ready to actually look at your vulva, pull apart the labia and really examine it and, and figure out what feels good for you, because it's going to be different for everybody.

[00:32:59] Katie: Well, and I think what struck me so much about when I was watching that Netflix documentary is that so many women came on and were interviewed about how they were really insecure about what their vulva looked like. And I was like, really? Like who? Cause I, I mean, I've def, I, I mean, I've taken a mirror and like looked at my vulva and I'm like, Yeah, I mean, it's my vulva. I don't know. I never had drama, I never had any drama about it. So I was like watching the ary and I'm like, Well, first of all, I guess I didn't realize that until then that like anatomically, people's Volvos look very different and it's like our nipples, like they all look kind of different and our arolas and our nipple colors and whatever, like Volvos look different too.

[00:33:41] And so I didn't realize that a lot of women, a lot of women have. The question is my vulva normal oh yeah. Is it, or is it ugly? Or whatever. And like they don't, They don't like it or they have a hard time with their vulva and then, I mean, and then I kind of thought about it and I'm like, Well, yeah, there is a plastic surgery procedure called like a labiaplasty or whatever where you can get that redone. But I really just thought that was like, just for porn stars, like real people actually care. Like, like I had no idea until I watched this documentary. Holy shit.

[00:34:13] Gwyn: Because we have no, um, education at all. Uh, yeah. All we get is entertainment porn. Right? And because it's all through, not all, there are some wonderful feminist porn makers out there, and if you're interested in that, just search that term feminist porn and you'll find some amazing pornography people of different sizes and shapes and colors and abilities and disabilities.

[00:34:36] It's fantastic. Mm-hmm. . Um, but, uh, because the basic porn is. You know, the, it's sort of this unshaved pussy that is very perfectly symmetrical. We don't have any real, It's all tucked in, can't. Yeah. There's no concept of when the inner labia is larger than the outer labia, which happens a lot.

[00:34:59] Katie: Like more common. 

[00:35:00] Gwyn: Not Infrequent. 

[00:35:01] Katie: Yeah, it's very common.

[00:35:03] Gwyn: Yeah. So there, there are a couple of really amazing books. The one that I can remember right now is called Petals. Um, and it's just, Gorgeous pictures of different vulvas. Um, 

[00:35:14] Katie: well it's at my birthday weekend. I had, I went on a trip a couple weekends ago for my birthday, and we all at the table, I don't even remember how we got on the topic, but we, like, I looked up a picture of like a graphic of like all different labias and I'm like, Okay, everybody, like, what does your labia look like? And we had this like , this conversation about everybody's labia is different and like, Hey, ours we're like labia sisters. And like, it was really funny. But, but also I do like having some of those conversations of just normalizing like it's just our different bodies. Like 

[00:35:45] Gwyn: totally. There's a really wonderful Instagram artist that I can't again remember. Oh, the vulva gallery. Ooh, okay. And she does, 

[00:35:52] Katie: I really heard about this. 

[00:35:53] Gwyn: Yeah, she does really beautiful, uh, line drawings of different vulvas. Um, yeah, if you, it much like. Being fat. Part of the way that you address, I am also fat . Um, part of the way that you address normalizing that is to include more views of it in your life. So following other, you know, fat activists, following, um, people who post pictures of beautiful vs. Um, in all their different shades and shapes, uh, just really helps your brain associate that this is okay, this is natural, this is normal. And you are not irregular. Yeah, there's nothing broken. 

[00:36:35] Katie: Yes, I will say since I've made a point to follow like curvy Instagram influencers, my insecurity just by doing that alone, like my insecurities about my body have significantly decreased

[00:36:49] because, you know, I'm just, I'm, my feed is, is predominantly like bigger women living life. Yeah. And, and, and being empowered to do so and not like, I just don't have all these like, teeny tiny little like blonde Instagram all over my feed. I just, it's not healthy for me personally cause I don't look like that.

[00:37:11] So, you know. Ha. And it's the same thing for people of color. And I mean, I, you know, and I've made a point to try to follow like, more influencers of minorities and just people trying to change the narrative. Um, 

[00:37:23] Gwyn: and it's like that with sex and sexuality too. Yes. 

[00:37:26] Katie: It's exactly like that. Yes, exactly. And following more, um, I just started following an account, I can't remember what podcast episode, but somebody recommended to me.

[00:37:36] It's called like the Love crave mm. Or something. Yeah. And they talk about, I don't, I, they talk about masturbation all the time and just like techniques and different toys, and it's just like, but in like a really healthy, um, like sexually empowered way and counts like that, I just, I, I enjoy people bringing more of that to the internet, um, because we're just inundated with content on a constant basis. 

[00:38:04] And I, you know, I, what I am consuming, I want to be, um, positive to, to me and to other people. And so I love, I love accounts like that, and I do think it's important and in any conversation about sex, to remind the people that what you see in porn and like, you know, typical, you know, playboy, maxim, whatever, it just isn.

[00:38:29] It just isn't reality. But I think a lot, we still are really, I think a lot, most women are, you know, still struggle or up against that narrative every day. And there's a lot of shame for women and their sexuality. It's really hard to be an empowered women right now. 

[00:38:45] Gwyn: Yeah. Well, as one of my colleagues Reid Mihalko says, You don't learn to drive from watching the fast and the furious.

[00:38:51] Katie: True.

[00:38:51] Gwyn: So why do you think you're gonna learn how to do sex from watching porn? It's entertainment. It's, it's not education. Even, even feminist porn, which is lovely, is still entertainment. 

[00:39:03] Katie: Mm-hmm. . No, I totally agree. And I mean, I, I mean, I don't know when I realize, I don't know. I mean, I, I, I think. I I exposure to porn.

[00:39:14] I feel like I was exposed to porn at a young age. I was talking about my friend with this the other day, we were talking about his kids. Like when, um, Cable had like the premium channels like HBO and like Cinemax were like on your regular channels and after dark it would like soft core porn would come on.

[00:39:32] Yeah. And like, that was like me. And I'm like a, I'm a, I'm a, a millennial and so many of people my age, like that is how they were educated about what sex was, was like watching soft poor porn of like HBO after dark . Yeah. And it's so not realistic at all. I don't know. I I think it's, it's really sad that , that that's the state of things.

[00:39:56] And then knowing, you know, now in 2022 where we're supposed to all be empowered and be able to talk about things. Now we've been handed down this RO V week Oh my decision. And it's like, what a blow. And I think about so many of the women even that I just know personally that deserve to be empowered sexually and they're not.

[00:40:15] And I think when I, I too, I keep saying like, sexual empowerment, you guys, and I think a lot of people relate that term to just kind of like being a whore and having sex with whoever you want or being really careless about who you have sex with. And I don't think that's not, that's not, I mean, that can be a form of sexual empowerment, but that's not, doesn't encompass it, that it's empowering to abstain because it's like, Oh, I'm actually finding ways to empower myself and love myself and develop a relationship with myself.

[00:40:49] And that kind of goes back to what we were saying in the beginning of the episode of taking yourself out on dates and being central with yourself. And I mean, if you're gonna, if you're gonna sexually empower yourself, you need to start with you and understand yourself. 

[00:41:02] Gwyn: Yeah, it every single time, the, the best way to figure out what you want is to do it by yourself.

[00:41:10] Mm-hmm. . Um, there are people who are like, I don't know what I want, and I'm in a long term monogamous relationship. And so, okay, well then, you know, we can include your partner in this, but there's also going to be time that I'm going to ask you to just do stuff by yourself because you, it's really hard to share what you want if you don't know what that is. And if you're doing that with someone else, it's hard to separate, especially someone that's been in a long term, monogamous relationship, it's hard to separate your interests from wanting to please your partner. 

[00:41:42] Katie: So is that typically the approach that you use when couples come to you of like, we just really need to spice it up, Like, we have the same formula for how we have sex and have for years and like, we're born as fuck, and like, like how, like is that where you start of like, who are you as individuals?

[00:41:59] Gwyn: Um, I could, I, I don't know that I have, I'm trying, I'm thinking back about on the, the folks that I have helped with. I, I, I call it a groove because calling it a rut feels, um, unpleasant. 

[00:42:11] Katie: Yeah. Yeah. It a groove. I like it.

[00:42:14] Gwyn: That, that being said, I'm, I'm actually dealing with my own groove right now. Um, and so that's fun

[00:42:20] Katie: It happens to everyone. You guys, even sex coaches hit a groove.

[00:42:24] Gwyn: It's true. It's true. And. I mean, part of, Okay, I'm not gonna speak for you, but most therapists that I know are a little bit crazy. 

[00:42:34] Katie: Yeah, no, yeah. You can speak for me. I'm totally fucked up.

[00:42:37] Gwyn: Most, most sex coaches come to this because we've had some of our own issues. Yeah. Um, and part of what I think helps me be a good sex coach is trying to stay on top of that and being really self-aware. Um, which is not easy. It's hard, but it's important. So I keep at it. Um, so if someone, if a couple came to me and they were stuck in a rut, I, I would first start again with lots of questions and then I might make some suggestions just to see how they land.

[00:43:05] Um, You know, have you tried, uh, sex on the kitchen table? Um, have you tried, um, making sure that you're both in the same mood at the same time? Have you played with mood? Mood can be such a huge thing. Mm-hmm. , um, you know, cuz sometimes you might wanna be playful and sometimes you might wanna be serious and sometimes you might wanna be sensual. Mm-hmm. and sometimes you might want it to be rough. And then of course if you're a woman, that might change 20 times in the middle of what you're doing. 

[00:43:36] Katie: Yeah. I can attest to that. 

[00:43:39] Gwyn: So, um, I would, I would talk to them about communication. Cause a lot of times I feel like that's where there's a breakdown. Um, that they don't feel comfortable really talking about what their desires are. I would find out if they know what their desires are. Um, I would find out if they had some hidden fantasies that they weren't sharing with each other. Like I might do a couple session and then a, a one in one session so that they can feel open with me. There are a lot of different ways that that can go. So I, I don't wanna say that this is the one way I would do that, because it really depends on the couple. 

[00:44:15] Katie: Yeah. And that makes sense. And even, you know, like watching some of these documentaries I've watched, we, we, they did an episode about couples and they showed all these different therapies and modalities that couples were kind of treating, being stuck in a groove.

[00:44:27] And it was, it was just fascinating that there are so many ways to do it. But also what made me kind of sad is that the, like so many of them have just been in grooves for years and didn't do anything about it and just kind of accepted that this is the aging process or this is what it means to be in a long-term monogamous relationship for 10, 15, 20 years years. Right. And that's just not true. 

[00:44:50] Gwyn: No, it's not true at all. And, and sometimes you can have people ask people to do exercises that have nothing to do with sex, to just sort of practice using those muscles. Mm-hmm. um, So, for instance, I had one client who had a really hard time voicing his. Interests to his wife, um, making decisions. Uh, you know, she, she was clearly the, the, the leader in the household and so I had him do things, energy. Yeah. Very, I mean, they were not in a dom sub relationship. That would be a whole different set of realities. Yeah. 

[00:45:26] Katie: You know, I'm not calling it that, but she wore the pants, you know, I love that. 

[00:45:29] Gwyn: Totally. Yeah. Yes, yes. People have energetics and, and they fall into categories. Yes. Um, and so I had him do things like ask her to get the mustard if she was standing instead of getting up and getting it himself, you know, really like it. So once you can identify where the problem is, then you can figure out all sorts of different ways of addressing that problem.

[00:45:55] And some of them are, are going to play out in the bedroom or the kitchen table. And sometimes things 

[00:46:01] Katie: I'm gonna say like, Ooh, that's like kinda hot. Like, you know, like if you're not used to that from your partner and then he is like asking you to do stuff and you've been wanting him to do that, like that, even just that simple act of you assigning that like probably creates sexual, more sexual tension or energy or whatever Exactly.

[00:46:19] Does translate, you know, to the bedroom later on or in the moment. Who knows? But 

[00:46:24] Gwyn: yeah, if we're stuck in a rut in our sex lives, we're probably also stuck in a rut in our TV watching or what we do for other entertainment or where we go out to eat. And so shifting all, any of that can help shift everything else.

[00:46:39] Katie: Totally. And I also think doing some of those, you know, smaller or not as like directly sexualized things can also take pressure off the couple too. And you know, of, of needing it to look a certain way or be a certain way. And like, for example, I think there is this misconception amongst partner like, um, heterosexual partners, whether you're in a, like long term relationship where, or not, where it's like there's this huge expectation and pressure about the orgasm.

[00:47:14] And I know we've talked about orgasming, but I, but like, I think I, I know of so many men that are like, measure their success as a partner by if they can get their female partner off. Uh, and like the reality is, is that that is one measure, but it's not the only measure. And it's also, I mean, there's a whole other set of statistics and research about how difficult it can be for some women to orgasm.

[00:47:45] Gwyn: 75% of women, depending on the study I've seen between 75 and 85% of women need CLI stimulation to orgasm. Just that's a, and 

[00:47:56] Katie: I, and like, I feel like I hear that stat all the time, but I don't feel like it translates to like real life . Like there's still this like, Oh, you didn't finish really. And I'm, It's like, Right. That, that makes me feel good. Thank you. 

[00:48:12] Gwyn: There are, um, there are tools and toys that, uh, people can use to address that. I know that a lot of people have stigma around that, but yes. But, but why? Like, are you gonna, um, do what I did and pound that nail into your wall with a brick because you don't wanna go to the store and buy a hammer? Or are you just gonna pick out your hammer? You know, that's my 

[00:48:32] Katie: analogy. But it's seriously, I mean, there are guys like, that are not open to toys at all. 

[00:48:40] Gwyn: And, and I don't understand that at all. 

[00:48:42] Katie: It's like, Oh, they're taking away like my ability to make you come. And it's like, well, what if you, again, same analogy you just used, like what if that tool just doesn't work for that?

[00:48:52] Gwyn: Right? Like, you're not gonna pound in a nail with a wrench, like, and also and also, um, it doesn't need to be an either or thing. Yeah. There, there's a, there's this really delightful tool. I am not gonna remember the name of it at all. It's a vibrator that is designed to sit right on top of your vulva while you're having penis and vagina intercourse. Hmm. So that it's stimulating your clitoris. While you're also having intercourse. Um, so you're getting 

[00:49:25] Katie: That's, that's awesome. And I know that there, I mean, there's so many you guys, like there are so many toys out there for every situation. And whether you're, you know, a male to female partnership or you're a female to female, or you're male to male, like, there are so many toys out there that can, uh, increase your quality, your sex life quality, quality of sex life, and I, I am so passionate about that.

[00:49:51] And like that when, like when guys, I, when I'm in conversations with men, I'm like, that is like the one takeaway from this conversation is like, maybe just be more open to trying different things and using toys. It does it, but there's this weird like masculinity, toxic masculinity thing that's like, oh, well, like I feel like it's replacing me. Or like, it makes me not as effective as a partner. 

[00:50:14] Gwyn: Yeah. And, and so for someone who is with a guy who had that type of concern, um, I would recommend getting something that didn't look like a penis . Just so, so start with, uh, you know, maybe not start with an insertable toy. Start with something that looks, you know, like the rose or a, a magic wand or, um, the, the Hitachi magic wand, not.

[00:50:40] Harry Potter's magic wand, although that could be fun too. Um, , that'd be interesting. Might be a little bit more like a penis than what I'm recommending. But you know, like there, there's so many shapes and colors and sizes and like it, and it really doesn't have to be in either or. And then you can start experimenting together too, like, you know, sometimes I know not in their twenties and thirties, but guys start to get a little bit tired and then especially if they're tapped into this toxic ma masculinity concept where a hard cock is the only thing that is their manhood

[00:51:13] Um, Which is, you know, it is so true. I've helped men with this too. Um, . Yeah, they, someone's doing the work. It's not my favorite job to be quite honest, 

[00:51:26] Katie: but I will, It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta . 

[00:51:30] Gwyn: Um, but, you know, then they can experiment, uh, using the toys on their partner and so that they're, they feel included if, if that's, you know, where the breakdown is.

[00:51:42] Katie: How would you work with a woman that wanted to try to like, cause so I have so many people that I know, um, and you know, I'm asking for a friend, like, not myself, but like, what if somebody uses, like, is very open to using toys for example, or, you know, aids to orgasm and whatever that looks like for them and kind of relationship they're in, but they really wanna explore other ways to achieve orgasm.

[00:52:08] How would you work with someone on that? Like if a, if a couple really wanted to, like, they're totally open to using toys or whatever, but they just wanna, you know, try something else or try to use manual simulation or whatever. But the woman has a really hard time orgasming that way and only knows how to orgasm this certain way.

[00:52:25] I feel like a lot of girls I know are like, if this isn't the exact temperature of the room and the condition and the toy, like it's not gonna happen. . 

[00:52:33] Gwyn: Well, first I wanna acknowledge that that is real. Um, there's an amazing book by Emily Naski called Come As You Are, that I cannot Recommend Enough to every person on the planet.

[00:52:46] Ooh. She talks about how, uh, sexuality has a break and a gas, right, Like in your car. Mm-hmm. . And if the brakes are fully depressed and the emergency brake is on, there is no way that car is moving no matter how much gas you put, give it. Mm-hmm. . So in, in those situations, I would start with, Okay, well where is the brakes for you?

[00:53:12] What's going on? Are you, uh, freaking out about the things that need to be done tomorrow? Are you nervous that the kids are gonna walk in? Um, do you need to make sure all your doors are locked? Like, let, let's take care of that first. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And then I would really encourage play, play without the goal first.

[00:53:37] Mm-hmm. . So figure out, so you have this one way that you like to get off, but you really like wanna open it up to other things. So take the orgasm off, take the pressure out of that situation, because a lot of times that will actually stop. That's another break. Mm-hmm. is that you're trying to have this thing happen.

[00:53:58] And so just remove that . Mm-hmm. , Yeah. Just really, really remove that and spend, you know, 10 minutes just making out. Um, and see how that feels. Yeah. And, you know, and then just sort of stop and chill out and talk about it for a minute. And then if you wanna do something else, spend. You know, another 10 minutes or 20 minutes or whatever, like just getting a back rub mm-hmm.

[00:54:25] and like figure out what it is that you actually really enjoy. 

[00:54:31] Katie: And yeah, I ly people do that. I think they just, I mean, I think people just kind of go on. A lot of women go on autopilot when it comes. Absolutely. And I read a super interesting quote recently and it was saying that women, it's like they said women have to focus on orgasming and men have to focus on not orgasming, in a sexual encounter.

[00:54:56] And I was like, you know, I kind of feel that sometimes, like, I feel like a lot and um, you know, I've listened to, you know, Several podcasts and literature and whatever about women's sexuality. And I, and I feel like a lot of it is, it's like breath work and figuring out, you know, what your mental blocks are and clearing those and really being able to be present and open and calm and like super, super, just not pressurized, but focused.

[00:55:27] Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's like, and then you hear guys that are like trying to like, think of like the biggest turnoff that they possibly can to like 

[00:55:36] Gwyn: hold 

[00:55:36] Katie: off or like, you know, and like, it's just really interesting to me, like how that dynamic is different for a lot of women I know versus their male partners.

[00:55:44] So 

[00:55:45] Gwyn: I've, um, actually been sort of experimenting with this. I had the most incredible, awful orgasm. Like, I didn't think it was possible that you can have a bad orgasm, but I did. Um, and since then I have been really playing with the things that bring me to. That incredible. Oh, orgasm . Yeah. You know, 

[00:56:10] Katie: when you have one of those, you're like, That's what that is.

[00:56:13] Gwyn: Right. And it's kind of the same thing that I would tell a guy. I would not tell him to think about things that turn him off. Cuz that's, that, that does weird things to the brain. And I don't think it's entirely, it doesn't sound, it does not sound healthy whatsoever. . Um, I would encourage him and I would encourage her to just take a break.

[00:56:34] Like, just, It's okay. To stop the, the fancy word for it is edging. Right? Yes. So, but the, the not fancy word for it is, just hold off for a second. It doesn't mean you have to, uh, pull out or, you know, start thinking about baseball scores or anything. Just take a second. God, this sounds so fucking woo woo, but just breathe together. You know, like, just recenter yourself. Like, just, 

[00:57:01] Katie: That's so hot though. Like, you should do that. It, it doesn't like take away from the experience. If you start thinking about like, your grandma in the middle of sex. Yeah, no, that's, you like gross versus like, versus like, let's just take a second to breathe because I'm like, not, I don't, I wanna continue this experience for orgasming.

[00:57:20] That sounds way, feels way better, not just sounds, feels better than like, I remember I had an ex-boyfriend that was like, Yeah, sometimes I just like picture dogs taking a shit. I'm like, What? Oh my God.

[00:57:36] Gwyn: Oh no, that's not okay. 

[00:57:40] Katie: Like, and I'm out here like, focus, 

[00:57:42] Gwyn: focus, focus. Right, right. And then, and, and honestly, whoop, Bump the mic. Um, both extremes are not great, you know, Like, no, it's, it's, it's, you wanna be as present as possible. Um, and so figuring out what that takes, I have anxiety. I am constantly running through to-do lists in my mind.

[00:58:02] Um, and so, you know, when I'm having sex with my partner or even with myself, frankly, I have to be like, It's okay . We don't need to worry about that right now. Just focus on one thing. And then, um, I, I do, I pick a thing to focus on, um, scent or sound. I'm really big into music, so I'll just be like, follow, you know, follow this riff and that'll help me get back into the, the flow as it were. Yeah. And so that's what I would recommend. . 

[00:58:35] Katie: Yeah, it's just, it's so interesting because like it all goes full circle of like, just the things that people kind of latch onto because we've had such, this lack of like, sex, comprehensive sex ed, and, uh, you know, of how to, not even just like the anatomy of our bodies and consent and, um, all those really important topics, but also just how to seek pleasure and how to share pleasure and in healthy ways,

[00:59:02] Um, we just don't, we don't, No one, I, no one I know, you know, learned that in any type of like, healthy way. Like I can't, I literally don't know one person that had like, like my age that had super like granola crunchy parents that was like, I'm gonna teach you about pleasure, like, 

[00:59:21] Gwyn: Yeah, no . I, I, I certainly did not, and honestly, my kids probably didn't either because that's just sort of the way it happens and not cause I didn't, But it goes against naturally like 

[00:59:33] Katie: the natural parent child relationship, I think.

[00:59:36] I mean, it's not like, I don't necessarily, I don't know, I don't necessarily think it's require a requirement for parents to be like, Let's talk about your pleasure. But it is a requirement for parents to like, give their kids access to resources of like where? Well, 

[00:59:50] Gwyn: and I think that what I did. Just let it, you know, would sneak it into little things. Yeah. Subtle, very subtly, very subtle things, you know, Um, not at all about sexuality, because again, that would freak them right out. Um, they were already pretty freaked out, like, Oh mom, the clitoris again, 

[01:00:11] Katie: Your Volvo pillows out again. And I had a friend over, Mom, put your vulva pillow all the way

[01:00:19] No, but I mean, but it starts from really little, I mean, when you have toddlers that are, you know, experimenting with their genitals and whatever, and they, like you said, it starts in the womb, right? Like it feels good and they don't, and we don't know why. It's like there are ways to have, uh, healthy conversations about sex and allowing, not shaming a child for just exploring their body and doing something supernatural.

[01:00:40] Um, which I think a lot of kids don't get either. And so there's just a lot of shame around sex and I think, but you don't walk away from anything else with this episode or anything else day. I mean, it is that you are normal and you're as a woman, your ball is normal. We didn't talk about men's penises, but you're a man listening to this. You know, your penis is normal. Um, and your desires are normal and, 

[01:01:05] Gwyn: and if you're a non-binary person, your genitalia is still normal. 

[01:01:09] Katie: And yes, thank you. And I mean, to be all inclusive, absolutely. Like yes, you, no matter who you are, no matter who, what you identify as, you are normal. And women have penises, Men have vagina. And that's just the way it is. So if you're mad about it, this is the wrong podcast for you.

[01:01:27] Gwyn: I don't know, I don't think they're listening to you to begin with . 

[01:01:29] Katie: Yeah, you'd be surprised Gwyn you'd be surprised. Okay. I have a guess. 

[01:01:34] Gwyn: I guess I would, I don't have any conservative family in my life, so, Oh, I, I am blessed in that reality.

[01:01:42] Katie: I have very, very conservative family, so I, I'm, I honestly, though, I think it's healthy for me to, um, be like consistently exposed to the, uh, the way the other half thinks. Sure. It re um, I don't know, keeps me, it keeps me, I at least I try to see it as a gift, Right. . Yeah. I try to frame it that way of like, you know, of, of, I, I've learned how to have super healthy conversations with people with way different viewpoints than me.

[01:02:10] Gwyn: Um, well that's, that's the actual thing that will help influence people. You know, yelling at them on the internet really doesn't ever do anything. 

[01:02:18] Katie: Exactly. And these are people that respect me and love me, and I respect them and love them. And so it, uh, it's like a totally different dynamic. And it is, I think it's, it's really empowering to kind of incite change that way.

[01:02:30] And like, I actually talk to people without all that, the, the not without the defensiveness. And, and I'm not saying it never gets heated or, you know, I'm never like, Sure shut the fuck up to, you know, when I'm like someone in my family. But I, you know, for the most part I have seen it as a gift. But yeah, it, you know, I, I think this podcast is all about, Honoring who everyone is and what I, what they identify as, and, um, just feeling all inclusive and that our, we all deserve the same amount of love and pleasure and access to happy sex filled lives, , no matter who you are. So thank you so much for being here with us today and sharing a little bit about the life of a sex coach and just you. 

[01:03:20] Gwyn: My pleasure. Yes, absolutely. This has been delightful at any time. 

[01:03:24] Katie: So you guys, if you wanna listen to more about Gwyn Isaacs and her sex coach work and more topics about sex, she has a podcast called What Excites Us. So definitely, I'm assuming it's on all most podcast platforms

[01:03:40] Gwyn: as far as I know. 

[01:03:42] Katie: Yeah, so definitely check that out. And then if you wanna learn more about her coaching services, um, there are like at least five people that I know are listening to this off the top of my head that you should look up her website.

[01:03:54] Um, anyway, website link is earthly desire.com and I'm gonna also link some of the book recommendations that Gwyn made in the show notes as well. I'm gonna be checking them out myself. Um, and I am just, I hope that you all walk away inspired to try something new, explore yourself in a way that you never thought of before, and learn something.

[01:04:18] About sex and pleasure. So thank you for being here again, Gwyn 

[01:04:25] Gwyn: truly, it's, it's my pleasure. This has been lovely. Yes. All right 

[01:04:29] Katie: ladies. It's been another fun week of bitch. You need to hear this. I know it was a requested episode. I hope I lived up to your expectations. This has then, bitch, you need to hear this.

[01:04:51] Gwyn: Okay. What did you think? Did you enjoy Katie? You should go check out her show, subscribe. It's called, Bitch. You need to hear this. And it's like I said, and like you heard, super fun.

[01:05:04] I would like to hear more from you. I've heard little bits here and there, and I know I've been silent for months, but please contact me. Let me know what you. Write a review. If you're listening on Apple or Spotify, leave five stars. That's a super easy way to do that. Or send me a message, go to my website, do all the things. What excites us.com. You could even find me on Facebook. I'm Gwyn Isaacs and I'm super available. I would love to hear what you would like to hear from this show as I go forward and start talking again to other people. Maybe you have some episode ideas in mind that you'd love to hear me talk about.

[01:05:50] Maybe you just wanna vent about something. That's all good. Let me know. I would really like this show to be more of a conversation than just a one way output.

[01:06:03] I guess that's all I really love you. Talk to you later.