What Excites Us!

Episode 39: Tonya Holliday of Swipe Left (or Right) Podcast

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Gwyn: This podcast is about sex and sexuality, so please only listen if you are an adult without kids or other ears around that cannot, or do not consent to sensitive language and content. Thanks.

[00:00:18] Tonya: I tell people I'm a sex in the city character because brunch and happy hour are my love languages.

[00:00:31] Gwyn: Hello and welcome to what excites us, the podcast that discusses sex and sexuality, so that you will deeply and truly know that you, your interests and your sexual expressions. Are okay. My name is Gwyn Isaacs. I am a certified sex coach who has been happily helping folks feel good in their sexuality since 2017.

[00:00:57] Gwyn: In this episode, I'm chatting with Tonya Holliday of Swipe Left (or Right) podcast. We had a great time talking about her podcast, how it came to be, some ideas for setting up your dating profile. Some tips for meeting people in the real world safety boundaries and more. Along the way Tonya tells us some amazing stories that come from her 150 first dates that she had in a single year.

As I mentioned, Tanya is the host of Swipe Right or Left Podcast, an entertaining show about the good and bad of online dating. Each week she talks to guests from around the US about what it's like to date in their neck of the woods. They review data about trends and the best and worst apps for dating. She also talks to dating coaches and therapists who give advice for online dating, and you can find her podcast. Swipe left or right anywhere fine Podcasts are heard.

[00:02:07] Gwyn: Thank you Tonya Holliday for being on my show. I'm super excited to chat with you about your podcast, swipe left or right

[00:02:15] Tonya: It's an entertaining podcast about online dating, which has become a normal for our society.

[00:02:22] Gwyn: For good and bad and all the funny stories in between.

[00:02:26] Tonya: And that's why I started it, is to have the funny stories to make it normal that, hey, I went on a bad date, but I also went on a good date. And it's not all bad.

[00:02:36] Gwyn: So, are you still online dating now? Are you generating your own stories?

[00:02:41] Tonya: I have taken a little bit of time off from online dating. I have been on and off online dating for the last 12 years. And, I'm an expert at it. I feel like I could give some fantastic guidance, which is why I have people on my show to talk about their experiences because we all have them. But I took some time off from online dating, so I may go back to online dating eventually, but right now I, I'm just enjoying talking to people about online dating.

[00:03:16] Gwyn: That's amazing. 12 years.

[00:03:20] Tonya: And to be fair, in those 12 years, like my typical in 2015 when I did 150 first dates in a year, which is a full-time job, basically. I will meet somebody, whether organically or online and be with them for two to six months, and then Both of us go our separate ways for whatever reason. And then I take the rest of the year off from dating.

[00:03:49] Tonya: And so I give myself some time to think through what I did, what happened, what I could learn from it. Maybe go to therapy for some things before I put myself back out there to continue looking for whatever it is my psyche is looking for online.

[00:04:09] Gwyn: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense Because, yeah, it's a lot.

[00:04:14] Tonya: I joke with people that I am approachable online. And so I have a tendency when I am online to get a lot of contact, men reaching out to me. Because I'm, in my own words, I've told this a million times, I don't think that I am supermodel hot, but I don't think that I'm ugly either. I'm that girl next door, cute.

[00:04:41] Tonya: I'm not out of anybody's league online. And so I have a lot of guys reach out and be like, Hey, let's go on a date. And so I get a lot of contact and some of it leads to some further stuff and other things are, you know, not interested. Please don't stalk me. So that is my experience. But I need to take a break in between relationships to sort of regroup.

[00:05:09] Gwyn: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean a relationship, good or bad, is gonna have ways that it impacts you, and that if you just jump right from one to another, to another, to another, you're never going to internalize what you might have been able to get out of it. Good and bad.

[00:05:28] Tonya: Yes. I think that there is something to be said for taking some time. I never understood people and everybody is different, so it's a just a generalized statement about myself that I never understood how somebody can get into a relationship so quickly after their last one ended, or while they're still in the middle of a relationship without having that closure, because I need time to process the dissolution of that relationship. I sorta to take some time to process and figure out and make sure that I am growing from the experience and not just perpetuating the problem. If it is something that I was contributing to.

[00:06:09] Gwyn: Well, hallelujah for that. I wish more people did that, but you know. Here we are, planet Earth. We're here to learn. And so everybody figures it out in their own time or not.

[00:06:21] Tonya: Lots of therapy, I can, tell you that I was not this way 12 years ago and I have evolved. Lots of therapy.

[00:06:31] Gwyn: That's really great. You have this podcast because you've been on a million dates and most of them online dating, it sounds like. What was the actual impetus to turn it into a podcast?

[00:06:45] Tonya: I have the best group of friends and they are creative and artistic and brilliant. They also, at one point, were complete strangers. I went to a women's conference in 2020 in Florida. And way outside my comfort zone. So I rented an Airbnb that slept eight people so I posted on the Facebook group and said, I have an Airbnb. The first seven people who send me 150 bucks gets a bed. And seven strangers from all over the country we all converged on this Airbnb and we were sitting around drinking one night as you do. And we were all hashing out what it was like to date online in Michigan. And what was it like to date in Kansas City?

[00:07:38] Tonya: And then I was telling the story about how I went on all these dates in Denver and one of the girls like, well, you need to start a blog. And I was like, blogs, when you're reading it, it's your interpretation of what the person sounds like or what is going on. And so I was like, well, maybe I should start a podcast. And so I had head shots taken, I got all the equipment, did all of the work.

[00:08:06] Tonya: I was, when I was having the photos done for the marketing stuff, my photographer said, well, open your app, you know, pretend to swipe so we really get a feel for what you are doing. And I said, well, I'm not on an app, you know, taking some time off. So I downloaded Tinder. I'd never been on Tinder in all my years. I'd avoided Tinder cuz Tinder was a hookup site and I was not looking for hookup. I downloaded Tinder for the first time and met somebody and I had been with him for a while and that didn't work out. And I was like, okay, it's time to start my podcast.

[00:08:46] Tonya: Whether I'm in a relationship or not, this is something that needs to be done, it needs to be talked about. There's a million people all over the world who online date. This has been in the works for years now. And so I really think the Ladies of Murcott Drive, are the reason I'm in the podcast business. and their support has been invaluable. But that's how it started, was sitting around drinking, talking with seven strangers from around the country.

[00:09:15] Gwyn: That's beautiful. What a wonderful story. And it sounds like you're still in touch with them, [00:09:20] Tonya: Oh yes. I will give them the information to listen to this, and they will laugh because that is exactly how it happened.

[00:09:27] Gwyn: On your podcast, you ask the same set of questions. Is that true? Is it the exact same set of questions?

[00:09:35] Tonya: It's not the same exact set of questions. It does follow a little bit of a format because I want people to see that there's a different perspective but I want people to know what. What's an average date like in California versus an average date in Texas and so if I ask the same set of questions and maybe not in the same order, and sometimes we'll go off topic depending on something that comes up, but for the most part, I really want people to get a sense that online dating while similar, you have a contact, you have a let's meet, you have an initial contact. I call it first contact. I sort of think of it as an alien encounter where you're not quite sure what to expect.

[00:10:21] Gwyn: Have you found that there is a lot of difference between location?

[00:10:25] Tonya: Well, from personal experience, not that I've dated all over the country, but I've lived all over the country. So I know a lot of people what it's like to date in small town rural Wyoming, just by sheer environment is gonna be different than what it's like to date in LA or what the 70 year old retiree in Florida is going to feel versus the 18 year old dating in Portland, Oregon.

[00:10:57] Tonya: And so it just varies, but I want people to also recognize that it is similar, it's the same, and so. Not to feel like their experience is different, or just because they're 18 versus 70, or they're in small town versus big town that we're all in it together. And you have very similar paths with different environmental contributions.

[00:11:24] Gwyn: Gotcha. Okay, so I'm a coach, I'm always thinking of how I can help folks. So can you help me help folks? I don't really know a whole lot about online dating. I actually reopened my Tinder while I was listening to your episodes earlier today,

[00:11:43] Tonya: I like it.

[00:11:44] Gwyn: having not been on it for months and months, and I'm really not necessarily looking to be dating, but it's fun it's almost like online shopping to some degree.

[00:11:56] Tonya: That's exactly what it is. If men were shoes, I'd have a whole closet full of them because internet dating is exactly like shoes.

[00:12:04] Gwyn: Right. It's just people instead of goods.

[00:12:07] Tonya: I mean, it gets kind of creepy when they wanna tie you up in the closet. So I try to, you know, discourage that. But it's sort of like shopping. I try to keep an open mind and super cute wedges, stilettos, peep toe heels, all the kinds of shoes. There's a man that fits into a category of a shoe.

[00:12:25] Gwyn: So what would you say to someone who is approaching online dating for the first time?

[00:12:30] Tonya: So here's my piece of advice from lots of trial and error. I tell everybody, Besides online dating is like shoe shopping. You know, you get a variety, but I have really high standards and low expectations of what's gonna happen online. So I have very specific rules. I have people who I let know when I'm going out for first contact, I meet in generally the same spots for first contact.

I also do a lot of, I don't wanna say screening, but I'm not one of those people who immediately start chatting with somebody and then go out with them within 24 hours. I think I've done that maybe three or four times in my life, just because I need a few more details and I need to see if I can get their energy and their personality via text, via the dating app, whatever that may be.

Talking on the phone, I'm a little old school, so I do like talking on the phone before we meet in person. So I can hear if you have a good voice, if you are nice if you're gonna spend the whole 10 minute conversation cussing. But I tell everybody to don't change your standards. Don't change who you are. But just know that lower your expectation of what that first date or even that first person is going to be like when you do eventually meet up with them.

And it is not personal. The other thing is I learned early, early on that I would take everything personal and it's not about me. The other person might not be in a good place to be in an actual relationship, or they might like tall, skinny, red heads and you have those great tits. It just is not personal. So those are the two things that I would tell everybody when they start out thinking about online dating, high standards, low expectations.

[00:14:39] Gwyn: What about the different apps? It seems like they all have different flavors?

[00:14:45] Tonya: Yes, every app has a different market that they're trying to market to a different goal. Like Bumble, the women do the initiating, so it's more female controlled. Tinder is no longer a hookup site. And so each one of them, I tell everybody to try 'em all. Some you pay for, but the people who are on the paid sites are the same people in my experience, that are on the free sites. They're just playing a numbers game. So it really doesn't mean that there's a higher quality of person on a paid site versus a free site specifically. Most of the apps are pretty universal and looking to do the same thing. You swipe left, you swipe right, you match with somebody. there's some form of you both like each other based on some criteria and let's meet.

I ask a lot of questions. I only ask the questions I need answers to, though I don't want to know what your favorite dog name was from Junior High. The stuff people share on first dates is amazing to me. But I ask questions that I need answers to. And basically, what is your end game?

What are you looking for? Are you looking for just a hookup? Is it a kink thing? Is it casual sex, friends with benefit? Are you looking for committed relationship and are you seeing other people? I also think of online dating as interviewing. If a guy had asked me when I was going out on 150 first dates, the right questions, he would've said, how many dates have you gone on this week?

[00:16:33] Tonya: And I would've been seven. And I asked those questions and they're like, well, you're my only date this week, which I know is a lie, but I'm gonna give it to him. Thank you for lying to me and saying that I'm special. So I always ask the questions, what's your end game? What are you looking for? How many people am I in competition with? This is, you know, sort of like the reverse bachelorette. I don't need to give you a rose to show you I'm interested.

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[00:18:51] Gwyn: What prompted you to go on 150 first states? It sounds like you had a plan, you were gonna go on 150 first states as opposed to that just sort of happened that way.

[00:19:01] Tonya: It actually just happened that way I think the universe had a bigger plan. So I moved to a new city, I moved to Denver. And so in my mind, I'm like, okay, I'm new to this city. I don't know anybody. How can I meet people and also explore the city that I'm in? And so online dating it combined the best of both worlds.

I wanted to be in a relationship. I was married for 14 years before becoming unmarried, so I missed that companionship. And my daughter had gone off to college, and so I was actually looking for a connection, not just going on random dates. I really was interested in a connection, but being the new girl in Denver, I didn't know any restaurants, any places to hike, any bowling alleys, any of those types of things.

And so I was like, let's just combine online dating and looking for a connection with figuring out the city. If you asked me out in 2015, I said yes. So even if you were not necessarily my type, my philosophy was I don't know what my type was because I know what my husband was when I was married and maybe my tastes have changed.

Maybe I want, you know, somebody who is five four with bright curly red hair versus six feet Asian. Like, what do I know? And so I combine those two worlds. And if you ask me out after, like there was a little bit of screening process, there was some people who were into a lot of fetishes that I was not interested in partaking in. So those people got a no. But for the most part, I went out on a ridiculous amount of dates. My friends laughed at me. And I found great bars and I found great restaurants and I met amazing people. It wasn't a specific number. It was how can I maximize my time, meet new people, look for connection and explore my city at the same time?

[00:21:16] Gwyn: That's really cool.

[00:21:18] Tonya: It was a lot of work.

[00:21:20] Gwyn: I bet

[00:21:22] Tonya: Thankfully, those high standards, low expectations, like who I am to date, exactly how I look right this minute is how I would go on a date. I would maybe brush my hair and brush my teeth or pop a mint in, or you know, make sure my eyeliner wasn't smudged. [

Like there were plenty of weekends. My friends truly laughed at me because they would say that I was a little overdressed for bowling. I'm like, well, I just came from a happy hour with a date, and then I'm here bowling for a couple hours and then I have a dinner date after this. So I'm sort of dressed for all of these occasions, and so they would laugh because I would stack my weekends full of first dates and coffees and events with my friends but if you can't handle me coming straight from an event with my friends, Then you probably can't handle me when I'm super, super fancy, which I love to get fancy for or really, really dressed down on a Sunday morning in my pajamas.

[00:22:25] Gwyn: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[00:22:27] Tonya: That's why the experiment was sort of, how do I know what I'm interested in if I'm not willing. So for a short amount of time I worked at D S W as a salesperson, which is why I have shoe references all the time. Cause I'm a shoe junkie and everybody says I can't live in a van because they've seen my shoe closet.

[00:22:47] Tonya: And so, people would come in all the time and say, I want this type of shoe. This is it. It's the most comfortable shoe. It's the only shoe that I wear. I'm like, well, have you tried the other ones? Have you tried a Nike versus, you know, an Adidas or a New Balance versus Under Armour?

Have you tried? And they're like, well, no, I've always weren't. I'm like, well, how do you know you like them or you don't like them? Or, there isn't something better for you if you're not willing to try them on? And so I sort of took that philosophy to online dating. I will tell you one of the most memorable first dates that I ever went on, and I tell this story quite frequently to everybody it's always entertaining, is I'm five six.

I'm not a height snob. I do ask how tall you are and if you have a height issue, because I wear two inch platform heels and I don't want to make you uncomfortable If we're on a first date if there's a complex there. So I ask the questions, I need answers to, how tall are you?

Do you have a height issue? Because I'm gonna wear two inch platform heels on a first date, unless you tell me it will make you uncomfortable. And then I'll wear sandals, I'll wear a flat. So this young, not even young man, he was in his probably mid thirties at the time. Ask the question.He said he was six feet tall. No, he doesn't have a height issue. Perfect. Two answers I need. I wear two inch heels to dinner. The first thing he says to me is, why are you wearing heels? I was like, did you not have an expectation that we would meet? And he was so offended that I was taller than him and he was five six, and I'm five six flat foot and five eight in heels. If you lie to me about your height, how do I know you're lying until we meet and then we have this discussion that you're now upset because I'm taller than you. If you have an expectation of meeting, don't lie.

And if you don't have an expectation of meeting just be honest. Hey, I just wanna chat back and forth. I have some anxiety, social issues. I don't really wanna leave my house, but I need some entertainment and you look cute. Cute enough to entertain me. So just entertain. And if that's your thing, great. If not, move on. No hard feelings, but yeah.

[00:25:12] Gwyn: That's, that's wacky.

[00:25:15] Tonya: Yeah, I, um, left before the check arrived. I'm generally not a leave early kind of girl because I give everybody a chance, but if you're going to yell at me, degrade me, try to make me feel bad. Nobody can make you feel anything. You're in control of that. But, in my world, I have the capacity to get up and leave.

[00:25:33] Gwyn: Yeah, absolutely. Boy, I wish more people realized that piece right there, that you don't have to stick around.

[00:25:41] Tonya: Yeah. I certainly wasn't rude about it, but I was like, well, this isn't going as I had planned and you obviously are upset and there's no point in continuing this because I don't see us recovering from this upsetness. Most of the time I will offer to split the check. Sometimes I'll put cash down, if I'm bailing early or what I perceive as early. But in this particular case, cuz he was so nasty to me, I just walked out.

[00:26:09] Gwyn: Yeah. Fair. I mean, really So are these the sorts of stories that you end up getting on your podcast?

[00:26:19] Tonya: Yes. I really, really love the stories of the good versus the bad. I like asking people what was their best date. I've had a lot of people on the show who are actually coupled up some met their match on an app and they're married. Some are just in a relationship. Some are perfectly happy wherever they are. But I love getting those stories as well as what everybody really wants to hear is the bad ones commiserate with each other about the guy who yelled at me for being too tall and the guy who really was just interviewing women to be a baby mama for his two-year-old daughter. I could write a book on all of the things.

I've had stalker, I haven't had a stalker to the point where I've had to get the police involved in new relationships, like in first contacts and stuff. I had a couple of people who I had to be very clear with, um, losing my number. And then I would run into them at my favorite bar and that's why I don't take people on first dates to my favorite bar. 150 first dates should get you some amazing restaurants, amazing bars, amazing places cuz that's a lot of diversity. And so I don't take first dates to my favorite places because I don't want them to fall in love with my favorite places and then have to be uncomfortable when I'm going out.

I love my friend's feedback and I'm all for having, a girl powwow in hashing out some stuff. I once was in a room full of women and we were showing pictures around and come to find out there was somebody in the group who, matched with somebody else that I'd matched with. And so like those types of things that always entertaining. [00:28:14] Tonya: I've seen my friends online date profiles and then I'll screenshot it and send it to 'em and be like let me help you because these look like nothing like any of you. Like you need to get better pictures. Not professional ones, but just better pictures. it's just crazy. Online dating is crazy.

[00:28:31] Gwyn: Yeah. Yeah, it is. Do you have recommendations for what people should do for pictures?

[00:28:38] Tonya: So I try to keep four pictures, three to four pictures on my profile when I have profiles. And the pictures that I typically keep on my profile is one, just a casual like a selfie. I try to take one full length one because I'm a curvy girl. I'm not like tall and skinny. I'm not supermodel size six.

I've had pictures, people on profiles look completely different like catfishing, completely different. But then I also have ones that are 20 years old. So you've gained some weight or you have gray hair or whatever that may look like. So I keep current pictures and one as a full body shot and like sort of one of me doing something that I love. I love paddle boarding, so it might be me on a paddle board or at brunch.

[00:29:30] Tonya: But those are the four that I would say is make sure they're all recent. Have a headshot or just kind of a casual top half closeup and then a full body shot, and then just something that you love doing that shows off your personality.

[00:29:47] Gwyn: That makes sense. And what about like text? Do you have recommendations for what people should write?

[00:29:54] Tonya: I usually just go with the flow for first contact, if you're responding to somebody's profiles and I try to find something from their profile that's witty and then make a comment about it. So if there's a picture of them skydiving, which. I don't recommend pictures of skydiving cuz you can't really see the person's face, but it shows they're adventurous. And so I would comment I see you survived that fall. Something like that.

[00:30:22] Tonya: If they have pictures of their kids in their profile. While I don't necessarily think that is a good picture, but if they're like, cute or I like something about their profile, I'm like, oh, are your kids coming on a date with us?

[00:30:37] Gwyn: Ouch.

[00:30:40] Tonya: I mean, and then they're like, huh? I'm like, you probably shouldn't have pictures of your kids online, because I've had people screenshot my pictures and then I will find them on other profiles. It's an interesting thing when you are online and you see a picture of yourself on a different profile.

[00:31:00] Gwyn: That's wild and scary.

[00:31:04] Tonya: Oh yeah, the stuff out there. So that's one of the reasons if you have pictures of your kids, I'm not interested. Because they didn't ask to be out there and their pictures can be used for any sorts of things and I'm not dating your kids.

[00:31:18] Gwyn: Right. and what about setting up a profile? Do you have any tips or tricks?

[00:31:23] Tonya: I love setting up profiles. That's probably my most fun thing to do. But I will set it up and not post it and then go back again and edit it like 10 times. And then when I do post it, I have a select group of friends who I've known forever, and I'm like, Hey, can you take a look at this?

[00:31:43] Tonya: So I would just say do it first, but then don't post it and then sort of pause, come back to it, cuz then you can think about it. I've also been known to rashly post things and then I'll go back and delete it and change it a hundred times. If you have a close group of friends, you can always have them look at it. I like to make a party of things and like have all my girlfriends over with wine and be like, let's create a profile and then who knows what you're gonna get.

You're gonna get drunk Tonya. Or you're gonna get you know, one of my good friends, Nikki, who's gonna be like, girlfriend, Can't we flash in the camera when you're posting your pictures? Come on, leave a little mystery. It just depends on who you are, your personality, but you can do dry run and then always change it. The nice thing about profiles is you can always edit them. So I've been known to edit my profile. If like a week goes by and I don't have any hits, then I'm like, eh, something's going on because somebody should be matching somewhere. And so I'll tweak things a little bit or add different pictures, or you can move the pictures around on the way they show up on the profile. We're all visual people. So anybody who tells you that they don't look at pictures is not online dating.

[00:33:04] Gwyn: No. Or they're blind, literally blind.

[00:33:06] Tonya: So I try to mix things up or I'll put different pictures up or I'll get feedback from my friends and ask if these represent me well. And most people will say that I don't look like I do it in any of my pictures, even though I think I look exactly like my pictures. So there's something wrong with my eyesight probably.

[00:33:25] Tonya: I have tried, to let go of my need to understand people. If there's anything I've learned from 10 years of online dating. It is that people will surprise you in good and bad ways. And so I try to not put them in a box anymore and just meet them exactly where they are. And that's true for online dating, friendships, and work people. [00:33:55] Tonya: I just try not to put 'em in boxes anymore especially since the pandemic, we've all changed and grown and things look a lot different. I don't know about you, but they look completely different. I've lived so many lifetimes in the last three years.

[00:34:09] Gwyn: Right. How's that going? Have you managed to, stop yourself from making assumptions?

[00:34:16] Tonya: Yes, it's hard. It's really, really hard. But I have a fantastic therapist I've had her for a while and so part of my homework years and years ago we did a lot of work around, I don't like people putting me in a box and assuming things about me. And so you really have to be cognizant about treating other people how you would like to be treated. And so whenever I do start putting in parameters or assumptions or anything like that, I just try to take a step back.

[00:34:49] Tonya: It doesn't always work. I'm human, but for the most part, I've gotten pretty good at, well, would I like that? Is that true? Is that my vision of what that is about, or is that really what it's about? And so I've had some situations in the last couple of years that have really tested my ability to let some stuff go and, um, not assume things. So I, I definitely have had my fair share of experiences recently that put that to the test.

[00:35:24] Gwyn: And I'm, I'm sure they will continue. You [

00:35:27] Tonya: Oh, yeah.

[00:35:28] Gwyn: life. It just does that.

[00:35:30] Tonya: I do have some weigh in on sex and online dating

[00:35:34] Gwyn: Bring It. Please tell us all about it.

[00:35:38] Tonya: Everybody is different in their comfort level, in their sexuality, in where they are. And that's the other thing I'm very upfront about is one of the questions I ask when I get to the point of what's your end game? What are you looking for?

[00:35:59] Tonya: And also, let's have a discussion about sex, because If you have a kink, I wanna know about it upfront. I don't wanna get in the middle of being intimate. And then you'd be like, oh, I wanna tie you up. And that's not me personally, but that might be a no. But you don't want to do that in the moment because lots of people cave into peer pressure that way when they really wanted to say no, but they were already in this position and they didn't wanna disappoint their partner. And so then they get into this weird head space about doing things that they're uncomfortable about doing.

[00:36:37] Tonya: If you're looking for a hookup and you're on a match site, which is in everybody's mind, a relationship site versus a hookup site, and you just want a hookup, then before you even get to the first date, when you're talking about going out with somebody, you need to be like, I'm really just looking to have sex. I'm really looking for a friends with benefits. I really have this foot fetish and I wanna suck on your toes.

Tonya: Like whatever it is you need to be upfront because again, you get into these situations, men and women, that you might not have agreed to or you're not super comfortable with, or you haven't fully expanded on what that looks like.

For instance, tying up, I'm okay being tied up with the scarf or a belt or something, but I don't wanna be tied up with handcuffs. But then you only have handcuffs. So then in the moment whoever is using the handcuffs is like, well this is what I've got you know, they're like, Hmm, I'm not really comfortable with that, and so I have real open discussions about what that looks like early on to make sure that everybody's on the same page.

And I also have, like I said before, very clear things I do before first contact to make sure I'm safe. I once when on a first date in my 150 first dates and I said to the Uber driver, please remember my face and where you dropped me off. So if I'm on the news tomorrow, you can tell them where I am.

[00:38:12] Gwyn: Oh my goodness.

[00:38:13] Tonya: It should have been a sign that I should have said no. I should have just said no, but I'm an adventurous person. I'm like, yeah, it's fine. And so the whole date was we were gonna meet in between his place and my place in Denver. And so I try to meet in the middle rather than him coming to me or me going to him all the time. And so the day of the date, my car broke down and rather than canceling, I was like, well, it's not too far away. I'll just take an Uber. It's no big deal.

Well, we were supposed to meet for coffee and I always let them pick. I'm like, pick a place. I'll be there. He picked a coffee shop in an industrial esque, up and coming part of town, but it was more industrial. And I said to the Uber driver, just remember my face, you know, in case you see it on the news tomorrow. And primarily I was joking, but knowing I was going to an industrial part of town, I was a little cautious.

And I already sent out my text to my girlfriend about where I was going and who I was going with and when I would check in, which is what I suggest everybody do. Let somebody know where you're going, who you're going with, what time you'll check in and be consistent. So get there the coffee shop is closed. So he's like, well, let's go around there's a cafe on the backside of the building. Well, the cafe's run by the same people, and so they close at three and it's now 5:30.

Like poor planning, if you're gonna pick a date, check the time that they're open. you know, I let you plan it so you should plan it. We ended up going across the street. And I, think I say this in my first podcast episode, the options were at Burger King or McDonald's, cuz that's what was there. And he's like, well, we just get my car and I can drive. I'm like, I don't get in cars with people on a first date, like ever, ever. Like, I'm gonna take the bus home after this date because I don't get in cars with strangers. My mom taught me that from the time I was two.

 I've been on some fantastic dates, which is why swipe left to right is a thing. But always communicate with somebody and ask the questions even if they make you uncomfortable. So you know exactly what you're getting into and there's no expectations otherwise. And then you're comfortable and you can be relaxed and you can be yourself and not stressed in the middle of situations.

But if you like having sex on a first date, go crazy. Hopefully you'll have an orgasm cuz that's what it should be about.

[00:40:46] Gwyn: Right. That's the aim, then you should do it. It sounds like, and this is something that I would tell folks too, is that you wanna be clear about your boundaries

[00:40:57] Tonya: right.

[00:40:57] Gwyn: and stick to them. Because it is easy to find them being very slippery when something is appealing, and then suddenly you're bound with handcuffs and, something horrible happens. Your date has a heart attack you know, the beginning of some crazy movie starts.

[00:41:14] Tonya: Yes, I have been on the receiving end of some very interesting discussions about that. Like I thought I was clear and then the person was like, well, let's just try it. I'm like, no, not no. Something about me personally is I don't like to be blindfolded until I'm really comfortable in a relationship. We would probably have to be together for years. For me to be comfortable doing, like I'm open to a lot of stuff. Being blindfolded, not one of my things. And so one of my past, I'll call them relationships, they don't typically last for more than a couple of months, but she's like, well, let's just try it. Like, hmm, I'm not willing to try that.

So, very clear, stick to your boundaries, or if it is something that you are willing to explore, don't automatically say no just because you have a bad experience with it. But it's also one of those things that, for me especially, I need to be in a comfortable relationship and there's gotta be a lot of trust involved for me to explore those types of things. And so, be very clear. Stick to your boundaries, And. Have those discussions before you even get yourself into a situation where it might be uncomfortable.

[00:42:38] Gwyn: Yeah, in the kink world, they call them hard limits and soft limits, so a hard limit would be something, no, nothing. Never. we are never going to do this in a million years. Don't even bother asking me again. And then there are soft limits where it's like, yeah, I'm willing to consider that. Ask me in six months. Or if these parameters are in place and we have another conversation about it, perhaps that's something I'm willing to explore. You know, because things change over time because we are, human and full of variety.

[00:43:09] Tonya: I will add that I've also started as a disclaimer cuz now I've learned from past experiences to have a disclaimer that I reserve the right to change my mind and to also expand on what those look like. So in particular, my last relationship on the second date, we had a discussion that I was not interested in getting married again.

I'd been there, done that And therefore that was my answer is I don't need to be married to be in a committed relationship. And that conversation was used against me repeatedly, that I was not willing to get married. And I said, well, I reserve the right to change my mind for the right person. Like that might be, but let's have that discussion So now I find myself not in just relationships, I reserve the right to change my mind. Now that's just my standard disclaimer that I can evolve as a human and things change and think outside the box and you know, have experiences that may impact my opinion.

 And I think that's the whole point of podcasts and relationships and just life itself is growing and evolving and becoming I don't wanna say better person. I don't like a better person because there's nothing wrong with me the way I am, but just from experiences expanding who I am. And so now my disclaimer is I reserve the right to change my mind.

[00:44:40] Gwyn: Yeah. I love that. I feel like I wanna tattoo that somewhere. Um,

[00:44:45] Tonya: Yeah.

[00:44:45] Gwyn: when, First of all, when do you approach sex as a, as a topic of conversation? And then how do you approach it?

[00:44:52] Tonya: Excellent questions. Two very, very individual specific questions. I also like to get those conversations out of the way. What's your end game? What are you looking for? And also, what is sex to you? Is it a connection between two people that's building a relationship? Is this something more than a one night stand? Like, what does that look like? And also not to use generic words, but are you a vanilla sex person? Do you like, straight up lights out, mission style? Or are you playful? Are you into any fetishes that I should know about?  Usually that's on like this first or second date, because if they have a foot fetish and they wanna suck on my toes, I've had men do that to me before and that just is uncomfortable to me. So if you wanna suck on my toes every day of the week, probably not gonna work for me.

[00:45:56] Tonya: But I like to get 'em outta the way because then there's no hidden agenda. There's no surprises. I don't wanna go on a fourth date, and things are going really, really well. And the guy introduces me to his wife and wants me to be part of a threesome. But I like to get 'em out of the way early. But I have friends who are very, very introvert and not comfortable having those discussions.

[00:46:22] Tonya: And I think I said this when you and I were chatting at the beginning, I like to be surprised by everybody else, by what I say. I tell people I have a publisher, no editor. I'm not going to filter what I say. And my first contact is generally coffee.

I like coffee dates because it's a 30 minute commitment. I love coffee. It's my love language. If it's not vibing, you be like, this has been fun. It's cheap, so it's not a lot of money out of pocket. And if things are going really well, you can move inside to have breakfast or a brunch, or you can get a second cup of coffee or a walk around the lake or whatever that will look like for you. But it's the lowest form of contact.

But lots of times in those 30 minutes over coffee, I'll be like, what's your end game? What are you looking for? And what is sex? What, what does that look? I think somebody said to me a long time ago, what does being in a relationship with you look like is a good question. That gives you a lot of information about how they answer. That opens the door to so many other conversations you can have.

[00:47:41] Gwyn: Yeah. That's brilliant. I love the, what does sex look like to you or, how do you approach sex as a very open. Open ended question. I find in general with humanity that if you ask open-ended questions, you get whole range of answers that you weren't even thinking about when you asked the question, which I just, I love that.

[00:48:02] Tonya: So there's my online dating advice. I mean, I could go on and on and on, but I'll have you on my show and then you can give me some information about your online dating experience.

[00:48:14] Gwyn: Sure. Absolutely that sounds like a blast. I'm having a really great time chatting. So the final question that I ask everyone is what excites you?

[00:48:24] Tonya: There's a million things that excite me. I'm such a people person that I love connecting people. I truly think I would make a great hitch because I really do enjoy connecting people with other people, and I like making those connections and I just love exploring and trying new things, and that's sexually and physically and worldly, like trying new foods and things like that. Just don't suck my toes because that, that does not excite me.

[00:49:04] Gwyn: Isn't she a hoot? I had a really good time talking with Tonya and if you wanna hear more of the conversation, you can go to my Patreon page for the show, which is at patreon.com/whatexcitesus or just visit us at whatexcitesus.com and you can click the link that is there. And don't forget to subscribe to Tonya's show, Swipe Left or Right. 

I had so many amazing snippets I might even put some out for free just cuz it was really a blast. Speaking of free, I have a favorite ask. Would you please? Please take a moment to rate and review this show. You can do it in the app that you are using to listen to right now, or you can use the rate this podcast link, which is also available on the whatexcitesus.com page. [00:50:01] Gwyn: Just by doing that tiny thing, it will help get this podcast out to other folks and little by little we can make the world a healthier and sexier place. Just one little click and you can feel good that you have done a bit of kindness today. Thank you so much. 

What Excites Us is produced, edited, and hosted by me. Gwyn Isaacs, our podcast host is Tickle.Life, and all music is used under the Creative Commons attribution license. The opening song is The Vendetta by Steven Kartenberg and this is Quando by Julius H. Thanks for listening and please know that however you express yourself sexually, whatever your desires are. You really are okay Just so long as you don't harm anyone, and that includes yourself.