What Excites Us!

Episode 42B: The Raw Conversation with Mollena Lee Williams-Haas

Transcript:

Ep 42B - Mollena and Gwyn Chatting

[00:00:00] Gwyn: Hello and welcome to What Excites Us. I am Gwyn Isaacs, a certified sex coach and educator who has been doing this since 2017. I am completely off script if you can't tell, and basically, I just wanted to come on and say this episode is the long form conversation that I had with Mollena Lee Williams-Haas.

I know I promised it as a bonus in between regular episodes, but, frankly, I dropped the ball. I forgot to plan accordingly, and these things happen. So I still wanted to bring it to you because it's really so fun and I thought that you would enjoy it. I had some feedback that they wanted more Mollena and luckily that person was a Patreon. Patreon a Patreon. They were a Patreon, so they went over to the Patreon and listened to it there where it was already uploaded. But for the rest of you, I still wanna bring it to you, so please enjoy this long form conversation with me and Mollena

[00:01:17] Mollena: I was trying to use my super awesome mic so that I would have the best sound quality, but apparently if I use that, then I need to plug in my headphones and it becomes this whole other thing. How is the sound quality as far as you're concerned?

[00:01:31] Gwyn: It's good enough. It's not bad. It's better than many actually,

[00:01:37] Mollena: All right. Let me try one more thing. If you have a moment and I'll try to see if I can plug it in with my headphones. So I'm gonna do this and see if, how are you doing?

[00:01:51] Gwyn: Uh, I'm okay. How are you?

[00:01:54] Mollena: Oh, crappy.

[00:01:56] Gwyn: Yeah, I saw that. I mean, I saw that yesterday. You haven't, I haven't noticed today, but

[00:02:02] Mollena: Yeah. The past week has been absolute garbage. More, less, I mean, like, there's been a couple of bright spots, but it's been pretty shitty. Um, but I'm, I'm on the back end of feeling less. Uh, miserable. So that part's fine. Um, I'm gonna not fuck with this anymore and just go for, go for this, and it's just gonna be what it's,

[00:02:27] Gwyn: yeah, it's

[00:02:28] Mollena: and I'll figure it out later, rather than having you sit around waiting for me to look for this fucking cord that I think maybe I didn't get it back and now God knows where that fucking is.

[00:02:41] Gwyn: It's, it's really all good. Like, I, I, it's, it's genuinely, the sound is better than many that I've interviewed. So,

[00:02:51] Mollena: Okay.

[00:02:52] Gwyn: and also I'm an editing queen, and that's part of how I begin, is by saying that, uh, you know, I edit the fuck out of everything. So, I mean, you know, not when I say I'm not editing, but for the podcast, I definitely edit.

So, um, yeah. So if I need to post produce some sound quality, I am comfortable in that realm. But also if you say something and you're like, shit, I wish I wouldn't have said that, or whatever, I will happily take all of that out. It's, no,

[00:03:25] Mollena: Very good. Yeah. I rarely, I tend to, my, my, I'm on the other end of the spectrum because I'm always running behind or fucked up or an entire mess. And so my producer, I have the deal. I'm like, if I can do this with minimal fuckery on your end, will you be pissed off if I roll in right under the wire? And he's like, I'll do my best.

So we have this ongoing joke. Cause I'm just like, are you up late? Did the, did the baby wake you up? Great. Here's my episode for this week. Like, every time I see the light on the little like, um, the slack, I'm like, yes,

[00:04:05] Gwyn: Excellent.

[00:04:08] Mollena: So I'm just like, I'm just gonna, but I just, I, I literally do like, I think maybe once in every 10 episodes have I like stopped at any point and said, okay, let me take a deep breath and start again because I hate having to do like I hate.

It's, it's like my whole thing. So I take my hat off to your patience and your diligence for being an actual editing person. Cause that's more spoons and brain waves than I have.

[00:04:36] Gwyn: Well, if I was as confident just going off the cuff, if I had been standing up talking in front of people for years and years and years, perhaps I, I wouldn't be so uptight. But I haven't, so I've been on the radio where I have been able to edit shit, you know? Yeah. I mean, I used to do a, a music show and then I'd listen back and my show is always on the fly.

Like the show is like what I feel like listening to next. Uh, that sounds good. And a lot of the stuff I had never heard before. So like the intro would be great, and then it would take a left turn and I'd be like, fuck shit, now what do I play? And so some of those shows I wish I could have edited, but that was not the nature of my show.

So. And, and then actually like talking in general, um, to a wide audience as it were, theoretically. Um, I have no idea how many people actually listen cause it's the fucking ether that we're talking to. So, um, my, my, I have so much respect. I, okay, hold on. Lemme back up here a second. See, this is why I edit because, because I feel like an idiot most of the time.

Um, are you on a tight, super tight schedule?

[00:06:03] Mollena: No, not super tight.

[00:06:05] Gwyn: Okay, so generally I, it, we talk for about an hour. It tends to be, I do very conversational. I don't have any like preset questions. Um, And then what I'll do is I'll edit that down to like 45 minutes, give or take, because I feel like that's, cuz it's often such heavy topics that that's about as much as people can tolerate.

And then the rest I'll use for bonus content, um, when I get close to producing this, which I have no idea when that's gonna be. I all of a sudden got tens of thousands of people, not really, but I got a lot more people requesting interviews than I've had in a while. So my calendar is just like, I'll, I'll fucking know when this is gonna go out.

So when I get closer to it going out, I will let you know

[00:06:54] Mollena: Cool.

[00:06:55] Gwyn: and send you a link and whatever, like promotional materials you may or may not want, I, whatever you do with it after I put it out is up to you. I am not picky. I am honored. And so now I'm gonna, Ms. Reed says deep breath. So thank you so much, Mollena for coming onto this podcast. I am

[00:07:25] Mollena: Thank you for having me.

[00:07:27] Gwyn: this is super exciting. Um, I've been following your work for years and years and years. I saw you perform a story at a fetish conference once, and I was like, oh, who is that woman? And then went on to read your books

[00:07:42] Mollena: I was like, wait a sec, when did I perform it? I, I was like, maybe it was, was it the, was it Shibari Con?

[00:07:50] Gwyn: No,

[00:07:51] Mollena: Okay, then. There were only a few times I performed at conferences, which is really fascinating to me. It wasn't a lot, I didn't get requests for that very often.

[00:08:02] Gwyn: it was a, you were telling a story, um, and it was at Ramblewood, so

[00:08:07] Mollena: Oh gosh. Okay. Well that narrows it down. All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the Dark Odyssey

[00:08:12] Gwyn: Probably one of the Dark Odyssey events. Yeah.

[00:08:15] Mollena: Back in the olden days of do,

[00:08:20] Gwyn: yeah.

[00:08:21] Mollena: oh my gosh. Before it was, you know, entombed in darkness and and evil, so, yeah. Yeah. But in my opinion, it always was intuned in darkness and evil because it was in nature, and I am not a nature kid.

[00:08:39] Gwyn: yes, yes. I believe I asked you that on Facebook once, if you were okay or being abducted because there was a picture of you in, in, uh, in nature and I was like, oh my God,

[00:08:55] Mollena: Oh my God. No. Yeah, this was, this was the ongoing thing is that the events that were happening at Ramblewood for so many kinky folks was the epitome of awesome. Like, you know, you were on land, that was just for the event. You didn't have to worry about offending anyone. You didn't have to worry about being too loud in a hotel or whatever else, you know?

And the fact that it's built literally in like an old Boy Scout camp and that you're sleeping in these cabins that are like these very, I mean, to put it politely, I don't know, rustic is what they like to call it. It's

[00:09:30] Gwyn: I think so.

[00:09:31] Mollena: like to call beat down fucking bunk ass bullshit. They're like rustic.

I'm like, stop, stop.

[00:09:38] Gwyn: Yeah. No.

[00:09:39] Mollena: language and ruin it. And so the first time I went there, um, I was, I was dragged there because I was going to be teaching, and several friends of mine were going to be teaching and they were like, it's gonna be great. They, they said, look, you can stay in, in what they referred to as the White House, which is the original house that was built, I guess for the, for the farmer who lived and owned the property.

Uh, and then when I got there, I dropped off my stuff in the room and I'm like, you know, I'm not super woo, but I was like, something, I'm kind of vibing something weird here. I just, you know, um, and, and someone said, oh, would you like to go downstairs and see where they used to hide slaves because this was a stop on the Underground Railroad.

[00:10:24] Gwyn: Wow.

[00:10:25] Mollena: And I said, uh, because I was so stunned. I just said yes reflexively, because I was like, you know, and then they opened this door to this room and went down this hallway, and then there was this little sort of dank passage, and then there was this door, and they opened it in just this wave of like, mold smell came out.

And this dampness, and this just, this, I wanna say is I was not ha, I was like, I, first of all, I'm not going any further. And the reality is when I try to remember what happened in that moment, I fucking can't. Like I know it happened, people were with me, people remember it. And I was like, and I just, my, my brain just erased it, is what I like to tell myself.

Like, I don't know what the fuck that was. But when I came upstairs, I was like, I'm unhappy in this place. And I'm just gonna get through this this week and, and I'm just gonna survive it. And of course, um, I wound up getting a sinus infection because I'm very sensitive to, to mold. And the, the, the house is just like chalk block with black mold.

Right? So that was my first time. Second time I went there, I was like, okay, not staying in, quote unquote the White House. Uh, I'll stay in one of these cabins. And there was a, the, the, the l cabin was the one that they said was the one that was furthest away from the, the sort of bulk of the cabins, right?

So I was staying up there. What they don't tell you is the L cabin is near the rape clearing. And at, i, I don't know if you're familiar with the rape squad, if familiar with the rape squad. Yeah. So for those who are listening, they're like, what the fuck is this? It's consensual, right? People get to the convention and they can sign up, uh, and they fill out a whole negotiation seat with what's okay and what isn't.

And they're a squad of individuals made up of the people who you request. So if you're, like, if you have gender preferences, if you have, you know, um, uh, uh, whatever sort of clan or mob you want for this assault, you can request them. And this was the spot that they had to have ABD duck people because it was sort of out of the way of the rest of the camp, but it was right behind Mike Cabin weren't trying to fucking sleep.

And apparently the squad had a full, uh, dance card. And so I'd be laying there like some cranky old lady like, Hey, can you, can you tone down the rape? Some of us are trying to sleep over here. Squad fuck girl. It was so much. It was so,

[00:13:09] Gwyn: That is too fucking much. Yeah. I never, I, uh, never stayed in the cabins. I, I prefer spiders living outside. I'm comfortable with, with nature and comfortable with rustic. But, you know, when I'm on vacation, that's not what I wanna be thinking about. Um, I had an RV that I had bought from, uh, uh, from my grandmother dying and me beginning my, uh, let me divorce and move on with my life.

A middle aged crisis, right? The very beginning of my middle aged crisis. I bought an

[00:13:40] Mollena: I love that your midlife crisis was not like, you know, a sports car or you know, like some hot new toy. It was. I love it.

[00:13:52] Gwyn: Put my kids in an RV and drove them around the country because, well, so the backstory on that is I lived in my van as a young 20 something year old, and so I was, I was still trying to reclaim my youth. It's just that my youth was very, very different than most.

[00:14:06] Mollena: were like on the hashtag Van Life tip before it was even hashtag

[00:14:12] Gwyn: Yeah. No, I was, it was like the nineties, the early nineties at that, I bought my van in 91,

[00:14:17] Mollena: Wow.

[00:14:18] Gwyn: no, 89 because I lived in it for two and a half years, and I moved out of it in 92. So it must have been 89. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Old hippie. Yep, that's me.

[00:14:29] Mollena: nice.

[00:14:32] Gwyn: And so then I bought an rv because, you know, children have, they need to have a place to sleep, and so it wasn't gonna be in a van.

And so then, then I had this van, and so I would take it down to ramble and then do other stuff or

[00:14:44] Mollena: Oh, see, that's, see that's not bad. That's not bad. At least, you know, there's no mold. At least, you know, you can, you can, you know, move it around so that you discourage centipedes, for example, from getting in. Cuz I had a few of them visiting me. And I mean, the thing is like, I don't, they don't, it doesn't bother me.

I just don't want them on me in the night. I just don't want to be startled awake by, you know, that, that kind of thing. And they just, they're so fast. I don't trust anything that moves that quickly, you know? And I just, yeah. So like, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a lot. So that is not an event that I, I choose to return to. My, my beloved owner and husband, the spouse, Meister, loves it more than anything. And so we keep going back and forth with a compromise. Like we, he was like, well, maybe we can do the RV thing because we really love RVs. And, and I said, if we're doing it as part of a larger trip, like if we schedule one of our RV trips around that and go through ramble what is part of the trip, then it makes sense.

But doing it just for the event is nuts cuz it's a lot of money, uh, uh, in terms of our lifestyle to hemorrhage for one kink event. So that's a couple of grand right there. Rent an RV for, for that amount of time. And I was like, you know, I go run naked at Central Park and hump a bush and come home like just, you know,

[00:16:22] Gwyn: Oh,

[00:16:22] Mollena: not empathetic in that way. Like I just, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't get that nature, that degree of like, it doesn't fuel me, right? Like, there's so many people who are like, oh, when you're, when I, when I'm feeling disconnected, when I'm feeling dysregulated, I go and I, I touch the earth, I stand on the ground, I hug a tree, I'm like, I take a fucking bath.

Alright. I like, I have a snack, I take a bath. Like, I have shit that I do that helps me, you know, like someone petting me on the head, for example. Real helpful, but none of it involves dirt, leaves, bugs the sky or, or, or, um, you know, putting my body in touch with uh, uh, places where, uh, parasites that can kill you, for example, uh, can burrow into your flesh, right?

Like, this is just, I just saw too many fucking National Geographic shows when I was a kid. I was like, mm-hmm. You're not getting in me. Flush eating bacteria.

[00:17:21] Gwyn: Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I feel you on that. I, uh, yeah, I used to do the rainbow gatherings and then there was one in the South, and I'm like, there are chiggers there. Like I don't, Nope. That's where I draw the line. That's it. That's, Nope. If you're gonna burrow under my skin, I am not playing. I'm just not.

[00:17:40] Mollena: the fuck not.

[00:17:41] Gwyn: And I like nature.

I mean, I lived in Vermont for 30 years, right. And so, like, I'm okay with

[00:17:46] Mollena: like Vermont has a more civilized nature. I feel like Vermont people are like, gonna go stand there and look at it. They're like, you know, let us, let us observe the beauty of this mountain, this and this. Lovely, now we're gonna go have a sandwich. You know, like,

[00:17:59] Gwyn: of fuck aids still. But yeah, I mean, there's, I mean, I'm happy to not be there anymore. I mean, you know, but I get it. Your city kid born and bred. So like,

[00:18:10] Mollena: yeah. It's my thing. It's my thing.

[00:18:12] Gwyn: near the park? I, I don't know. As a little kid, I used to go play in shirts, park, and I had this little, like, little, uh, Bush that I would crawl under and like this was my hideout, you know?

And then like later when I grew up I was like, oh god, that's probably where the dope heads like went and sh got up and stuff.

[00:18:33] Mollena: they would take us, we, when I was in maybe like fifth or sixth grade, the, the Central Park Conservancy would have like child slave labor come out under the guise of teaching us, you know, like about Central Park and everything. And so we would've to go and there was an incursion of Japanese, not weed that was apparently killing the rhododendrons.

And the, um, older growth, obviously there's no original growth shade in Central Park, but the older trees that were original to Central Park being built, uh uh, were endangered. So they sent us out there with these little like Japanese pruning shears. Like fucking 12 year old kids. This is how, you know, our generation was a fucking mess.

Cause here they were like taking 12, 11, 12 year old kids giving them knives and setting them free in Central Park to hack away at an invasive fucking tree. Evasive, fucking like weed or whatever the fuck it was. And I developed such a hatred. I mean, not only for these, uh, Japanese, not weeds, but also I victim blamed the fucking road of RINs for letting the Japanese.

I was like, why did you let this happen? Couldn't you? You could have done something to not be overgrown by this Japanese. You could have just grown faster. You know? So I was not, not feeling it. So that was my, that was my, you know, and then I was actually sent away to bible camp. But that's a whole other episode.

I don't think this is the religious, if you wanna do a religious trauma episode, we can talk about that.

[00:20:04] Gwyn: I, you can come back and talk to me any, any damn time you want. You can talk about any damn thing you feel like I, I thoroughly enjoy chatting with you and, uh, Getting, getting the backside is totally fun. Oh, and I didn't mean it that way, but Sure, why not? Oh my God. Ok. So then should we actually do, like, try to have a

[00:20:32] Mollena: The back. The back door of the story.

[00:20:34] Gwyn: the back door of the story?

Yes. Before this I was listening to, uh, to the latest body episode and uh, it was, um, I'm not gonna remember the beautiful drag queen's name and I'm sorry for that, but she was talking about how she loved Rimming. That is a special ribbing chair. So perhaps that's all just stuck in my head. I don't know.

[00:21:00] Mollena: A chair. I have observed those a few times. I thought a chair, that's, I kinda dig it.

[00:21:07] Gwyn: Yeah, it seems pretty comfortable.

[00:21:09] Mollena: Yeah. I gotta,

[00:21:10] Gwyn: for the person who's being rimmed, maybe not so much for the.

[00:21:14] Mollena: This is what, this is the thing that I, I've seen these like little, sort of little boxes that you can sit on and then someone puts their head in the box. I'm like, if you're kind, claustrophobic. And then the ones that I saw that I always had serious questions about were the ones that were a toilet seat, essentially on very hefty springs.

Like, like, like springs that you would see on an old style rocking horse.

[00:21:36] Gwyn: Okay.

[00:21:36] Mollena: And so the springs were attached to like a walker frame. So imagine a walker frame and attach to the four corners of the walker frame are springs that hold a toilet seat.

[00:21:48] Gwyn: Okay.

[00:21:50] Mollena: And so you're sitting in it as though you were sitting on one of those portable toilet seat things and then whomever.

The fortunate recipient is then slides underneath, and so you're kind of bouncing onto their face.

[00:22:01] Gwyn: Okay.

[00:22:04] Mollena: And I was like, huh, this is interesting. But then I was like, do you really trust,

[00:22:09] Gwyn: Yeah, no, that just terrifies me.

[00:22:11] Mollena: like I I I, I would spend the whole time worrying that I, that like all 200 plus pounds of my ass were gonna come crashing down on whomever was. And the thing is, would you die? Probably not. You probably wouldn't die, but you could break someone's neck

[00:22:30] Gwyn: or their nose.

[00:22:32] Mollena: or their nose or, or you know, or you could jig left or right and, and break your tailbone.

Like I have heard that is an incredibly painful fucking injury. So, yeah, I don't know if any of your listeners have any insights. Maybe they can.

[00:22:52] Gwyn: I I would love that. Please let, let us know. That would be fantastic.

[00:22:56] Mollena: at, uh, the kink doula at aol com.

[00:23:01] Gwyn: Wait a minute. Are you really at aol?

[00:23:04] Mollena: I fucking am. I

[00:23:05] Gwyn: Oh.

[00:23:05] Mollena: I was like, I will tell you why. So when I was doing the design for my whole kink doula thing, cuz it's my new business, I'm in fact the doula of kink, I'm amazing. It wound up coming up in this very like seventies sort of pul fictiony vibe in a lot of the, like in the font and in the photos we did.

So I just was like, I'm just gonna go full fucking hog with this. And I was, I didn't even know you could steal, get aol fucking addresses bro.

[00:23:33] Gwyn: amazing.

[00:23:34] Mollena: Right. I was so irrationally excited.

[00:23:39] Gwyn: That is so cool. You should, I mean, not should, but you know, you could consider if you make promotional materials to make them in that, like those like little cans that a l used to stand.

[00:23:53] Mollena: Those fucking CDs. Those fucking CDs.

[00:24:01] Gwyn: I mean, not that anybody could play a CD anymore, but

[00:24:04] Mollena: Oh my gosh. I would've to dig it out. We have, we have a couple of them floating around the house. Gail Cre needed one for something. Someone, you know, who's still using CD's, contemporary music, fucking weirdos. It's like, they're like, they're like the, the vinyl heads of the pop music scene. Like the cd. Yeah.

See, exactly, exactly. For contemporary music people, uh, the CD is as ancient as they wanna get, right? They, they have to keep up with the, like, the most cutting edge technology. So it kills me that every once in a while, Garrick will have to find something that like isn't on. YouTube because it's just that weird or just that obscure.

And so he's running around like late for school, like CD professor pull my ass.

[00:24:54] Gwyn: Buried deep in this closet. We removed the 12 rolls of toilet paper and the paper towels and. Somewhere under there. Perhaps we'll find a CD player. Oh

[00:25:05] Mollena: So ridiculous.

[00:25:06] Gwyn: I actually, so since I am that kind of AV geek, I have a wall of records. I

[00:25:13] Mollena: Just so dope.

[00:25:15] Gwyn: v thank you, uh, a V h S player and a D V D player that I actually use on occasion.

And when I had to leave Vermont, well, I didn't have to, when I left Vermont and I had to pack up all my shit, I, I cried over the two boxes of Bhss that I gave away.

[00:25:33] Mollena: Oh gosh.

[00:25:34] Gwyn: I, I still have one box cuz you know, like kids stuff and what? Cry baby. Like I can't get rid of my crybaby vhs, like, come on.

[00:25:43] Mollena: I still, I, first of all, you just wanna look at it on a shelf and just know it exists.

[00:25:49] Gwyn: Exactly.

[00:25:50] Mollena: I have in, in storage, I have an entire box of ancient pornography and I really wanna pull that out and just experience the, the, the odd joy of fast forwarding through a porn state to get to like that one thing that really finishing move moment.

[00:26:16] Gwyn: Oh my God,

[00:26:18] Mollena: I'm talking

[00:26:20] Gwyn: I totally

[00:26:21] Mollena: no, that's it. Yeah. When she flips him over.

[00:26:24] Gwyn: Yeah. There we go. Stop, stop, stop. Yes, yes. So good. So, so good. Okay, let's try this again.

[00:26:43] Mollena: This is the show. You realize like this is actually going to be the show. This is like, this is the Seinfeld episode where you're like, what is this episode about?

[00:26:51] Gwyn: nothing.

[00:26:52] Mollena: Uh, nothing.

[00:26:53] Gwyn: It's just, just two old ladies babbling about shit. Oh my gosh.

[00:27:01] Mollena: most highly ranked episode of all time.

[00:27:04] Gwyn: You know, I just

[00:27:05] Mollena: resolved, nothing was processed.

[00:27:10] Gwyn: went to a podcast conference in March and, uh, not my people, but I went anyway, good to figure this out. And, um, I talked to somebody who does, uh, uh, statistics. So murder porn, of course, is the most highly ranked style of podcast.

[00:27:29] Mollena: Yeah. It's good.

[00:27:30] Gwyn: one after that is conversations, particularly conversations about TV shows or other murder porn podcasts.

[00:27:38] Mollena: I will tell you, I just started listening and those people who know me are gonna, like their jaws are gonna fall open. I just started listening to Morbid, um, because everyone's like, that's like the number one murder porn podcast. And I, I couldn't remember why I hadn't listened to it. And then I remember why I stopped, listen, I listened to an episode and, uh, one of the hosts had a vocal tick that made me nuts.

They just had a thing with their voice that just made me crazy. And I was like, I can't, um, which is nothing against them. Everyone, you know, if a million people are subscribed to a podcast and I like, obviously it's, it's clearly me.

[00:28:14] Gwyn: right.

[00:28:15] Mollena: And, but I listened to it again because, uh, their spouse, Maister and I are traveling around Europe doing a bunch of crazy shit, and we've had several long train rides.

And, um, there were a couple times I was like, I just need something I can vibe out to do the other shit I need to do, like catch up on my email and shit, but also have something I, I need a distraction. I need tv. I need something in order to work. And so, uh, this came popping up on my feed in Amazon Music.

It was like, you might Like, and I was like, oh, you're stalking me Amazon fine, fine. And I flipped it on and, uh, uh, I was like, oh, this sounds familiar. I was like, what is it that, and it was, it was funny because she still does it. It's the way she says exactly. And this is gonna sound crazy, but, and she says, and it's a, it's one of her like favorite words, you know, like how I'm like constantly like, oh my God, I'm dead.

Oh my God, you're killing me. Oh my God, I'm so dead. Right. Like her, her, one of her affirmations is exactly, but she says it exactly. And she hits that, that, that posted so hard every time. Like it's like a, it's like a, like an ice pick in my ear. But other than that, I love, I love the way that they do their pockets.

They're so reverent. They swear a lot. They're just like five mouth little white chicks. Um, but the thing that I found very interesting is that they started deliberately adding more conversation that was not about the murder porn to their podcast. And you could hear them, I could hear them develop it over their like maybe fourth season where they had done a tangent at the beginning of their episode.

So like 15 minutes was them talking about dogs, right? And then the one after that, they were like, oh my God, we were so sorry. We spent 15 minutes talking about dogs. But apparently y'all love that. So a lot of sense.

[00:30:12] Gwyn: Interesting. Well, who knows? We'll see what happens. Maybe I will just release the whole thing

[00:30:19] Mollena: Well cause you know, I think it's, I think it's cause people feel like they're eavesdropping. It feels almost like this is not the instated intended purpose. So in the same way that audiences get very excited when you fuck up on stage and they know that you have fucked up and there's nothing, audiences love more than that.

Nothing. Like I can tell you the times that there's been clear issues when I've been on stage, you can tell that this is like the highlight cuz they're just like, I know this isn't supposed to happen. What are you gonna do?

[00:30:53] Gwyn: Just

[00:30:54] Mollena: You know?

[00:30:54] Gwyn: up. Yeah.

[00:30:55] Mollena: Just like when I was in high school, we had a uh, did a production of three Penny opera and there was one of the performances where Mac the knife flew out his hand. As he's about to stab someone, right? And he had this little, like this stupid collapsible plastic knife.

[00:31:16] Gwyn: Right.

[00:31:17] Mollena: And so we're all standing there like, oh shit, David, what the fuck are you gonna do? So he stands there for like a good three seconds and then grabs the person by the neck and just starts choking them.

Now here's the thing, that kid had no idea why David was choking him because he didn't see the knife fly outta his hand. So he, you could see him like stiffen up, but then he just goes for it and starts hamming it up, like, oh, and it takes him like a good minute and a half because now this kid's like, this is my moment to shine.

And so he takes forever to die, which is actually realistic because it takes three to five minutes to strangulate someone, let us, let us be clear. So even at a minute and a half, that was still brief. In terms of reality, but the rest of us were just like rolling backstage, crying, and the audience was like hollering and like standing, evading and losing their minds.

It

[00:32:17] Gwyn: Amazing. So good. That is so good. So good. I love it. Okay, I'm gonna try again.

[00:32:29] Mollena: take three. Let's talk about sex. Let's talk about sex, baby, let's talk about you and me. I get you in trouble.

[00:32:38] Gwyn: Get me in trouble. Didn't nobody get me in trouble with,

[00:32:42] Mollena: cease and desist bitch.

[00:32:44] Gwyn: oh, you know what? If salt and pepper said anything to me, I would just be like so delighted. Like, I just like I, since I was a tiny human

[00:33:01] Mollena: Know,

[00:33:02] Gwyn: and I'm always a tiny human, but you know, young.

[00:33:05] Mollena: is, this is the thing about when I look at music from various eras, I feel like we like Gen X and right up until whatever was after us, I can't remember cuz I can't keep it straight cause I don't really care

[00:33:19] Gwyn: Because who cares?

[00:33:21] Mollena: because who fucking cares? Cuz it's us. And then like whatever else happened after that, we had really good music.

And the reason I know I can feel safe about standing on this, dying on this hill is that younger people have said to me that like, no y'all's generation, y'all had like the dope. Its like, because you think about like what we were li what my parents were listening to, what your parents were listening to was good shit.

Like Motown was some good ass shit.

[00:33:45] Gwyn: Totally. So,

[00:33:47] Mollena: Like that era had amazing, amazing music and you had started to have cross pollination happening and you started to have people understanding that, that, that there was so much more that could be done with music, you know, politically and, and, and socially and all of that was so cool.

And then I look at like, what's happening now? And I try to stay up on what's going on and I'm just like, oh no. Now I sound like my mom. Now I sound like my mom. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. But actually analysis has been done. And our music is scientifically proven to be, to be better than what's happening now. Science. It's science. Go look it up. It's science.

[00:34:28] Gwyn: yeah, I mean, you know, just the fact that they're pulling our, all our music for samples like that just, it just

[00:34:35] Mollena: Yeah.

[00:34:35] Gwyn: right there.

[00:34:41] Mollena: And I was actually thinking about that because I was talking to someone about salt and pepper and about the fact that, uh, we were at that time talking about sex musically, but in ways that was not just like, let's fuck. It was like, let's be responsible about it. It's like, do you actually, uh, want to do this in a way that is responsible and ethical and awesome?

And that was in the music, you know, it was in the hip hop. It was in the r and b, it was in the, it was in the pop music.

[00:35:11] Gwyn: Yeah.

[00:35:12] Mollena: Interesting. It was just, you know, like healthy sex was something that was talked about

[00:35:18] Gwyn: Yeah. I, and I, I have to wonder how much of that is, uh, because of aids, right? So I,

[00:35:23] Mollena: a lot of it. I bet.

[00:35:25] Gwyn: I was running a youth group and we were a gay youth group, and we were talking about AIDS and like we were teaching each other how we could and couldn't get it, and,

[00:35:33] Mollena: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:34] Gwyn: You know, and there's still ridiculously so much ignorance around it.

[00:35:39] Mollena: Oh my God,

[00:35:40] Gwyn: mean, people still think you can get it from toilet seats and that sort of thing. Like

[00:35:44] Mollena: are you fucking kidding me? How, how could you think that?

[00:35:46] Gwyn: I don't, I don't understand. They live under a bush in Kansas, I guess. I

[00:35:51] Mollena: I mean, I

[00:35:51] Gwyn: know.

[00:35:52] Mollena: bush, bush you hanging out under,

[00:35:56] Gwyn: No, that was, that wasn't the free side. That was in shirts park near Crazy

[00:36:03] Mollena: I mean I think you could technically get like hepatitis isn't hepatitis very persistent in terms of how long it lives outside the body. I think it lives for a long time outside of the body.

[00:36:14] Gwyn: yeah. I, I, this is not my area of

[00:36:17] Mollena: you could, if you had an open wound or a mucus membrane that you rubbed against a toilet seat where someone with hepatitis, with an active hepatitis infection, I think like that's one of the scenarios where like you could, it could happen.

[00:36:31] Gwyn: Right. It somebody had a.

[00:36:33] Mollena: I think a herpes lesion rubbed against the toilet seat that was then also rubbed against. But who, here's my question. Who is rubbing their genitals against a toilet seat? Even? I don't even, I don't even do that in my own home, and I know whose ass has been on that seat.

All right, so I'm, I wanna know who, even as I say that, I'm like, wait a second, you're a lying ass bitch. Because there have been times, this has happened to me several times when we're traveling, which we do a lot, and, uh, I close a toilet seat in order to flush the toilet. And then I forget to put it back up.

And then in the night I have planted the wet nether regions kiss on the toilet seat. Yes, I have. Where the labia hits you. Just like God,

I'm just, I have a germ thing, not like a super duper germ thing, but like a moderate germ thing. So I'm always a little horrified when my, uh, when my labia are touching something that is not, you know, my underwear or, you know, someone's freshly washed hands.

[00:37:45] Gwyn: Yes. Or something sanitized because yeah, it is a very sensitive piece of, uh, and can, has mucus membranes and all the things and could,

[00:37:55] Mollena: And is just like primed to get a yeast infection for any reason or no reason at all.

[00:38:00] Gwyn: yeah, you, you look at sugar for too long, you're like, that brownie looks good. Oh, good. Now I have a yeast infection.

[00:38:08] Mollena: Oh my God. One of the, like the last time I had like a really serious infection. You know what fucking triggered it? I ate too many goddamn cherries,

[00:38:16] Gwyn: Oh

[00:38:17] Mollena: fucking like bags of cherries. But you know, like that point in the Cher season when they're so good, you just like literally will have like five in your mouth at a time when you're just like hawking pits and you can't eat them fast enough.

Cause you know that this, like, this will be it. Like there's one time you get them and they're perfect and then the rest of the time you're chasing that dragon.

[00:38:36] Gwyn: totally.

[00:38:36] Mollena: I don't even know how many pounds I ate, but like two days later I was like, why am I so ugh? And I went in and I was like, and they, and, and I was like, I don't know why this happened.

I dunno why this happened. And she was like, well, this, this, this, this and that. And she's like, any dietary chips? And I was like, well, I was like, oh, but that doesn't make any sense. She's like, what? And I said, well, I did eat a lot of cherry. She's like, you mean fruit with sugar?

[00:38:58] Gwyn: Yeah.

[00:39:00] Mollena: And I was like, oh.

[00:39:01] Gwyn: yeah,

[00:39:02] Mollena: But it's nature, it doesn't matter.

My vagina doesn't care.

[00:39:09] Gwyn: Yeah. No. Doesn't give a shit.

[00:39:12] Mollena: So pay attention. Kids,

[00:39:14] Gwyn: Yeah. I

[00:39:16] Mollena: you can eat like, you know, like three slices of cake or you know, like too many grapes. It's like the same shit.

How many is too many? You need to figure it out with your vagina, my friend,

[00:39:37] Gwyn: And, and it will tell you,

[00:39:39] Mollena: and

[00:39:41] Gwyn: yeah, two pounds of cherries for lunch. Too much. Yeah. Yeah. Man. I got a, I got a little thing of blueberries the other day from the local produce place and like got home and they were perfect. And I, and I just ate the whole pint, the whole pint. I was like, Hmm. I guess that's lunch now. That's great. And then I went back the next day because they were so good and they were not.

I apparently got the perfect box.

[00:40:11] Mollena: it's so, it's so arbitrary and it's one of those lessons about life that you just have to suck up. And, and, but do, do you, do you do the same thing? Maybe you do, do you have like a clear memory of like the pe, the perfect fruit that you ate of every kind of fruit? Like what was your best blank like, like what was your best pineapple?

I'll be like, oh yeah, Costa Rica, fucking like thousand, 3004, somewhere in there. Costa Rica, actually, a couple of number ones. The best pineapple and best banana I ever ate was

[00:40:43] Gwyn: mm,

[00:40:43] Mollena: Rica,

[00:40:45] Gwyn: I

[00:40:45] Mollena: although I might, that's that. Now there's a fight because also I did eat, I did eat the shit like right off of the bush in Hawaii, which was ridiculous.

[00:40:57] Gwyn: I can.

[00:40:57] Mollena: Ridiculous.

[00:40:59] Gwyn: Yeah, I've never had fruit that fresh. I mean, well, no, that's not true because the one, the cherry that I can remember that is like, that

[00:41:07] Mollena: Yeah.

[00:41:08] Gwyn: Colorado, where I reached up and picked it off a tree

[00:41:11] Mollena: Yeah.

[00:41:12] Gwyn: and then, and it was dead ripe and absolutely perfect and

[00:41:16] Mollena: Perfect.

[00:41:17] Gwyn: yeah,

[00:41:19] Mollena: So good. So good. Yeah. The, the, the fruit and produce. I feel like in America, unless you happen to be near somewhere that's famous for a thing, you're really never getting the best shit.

[00:41:33] Gwyn: yeah.

[00:41:34] Mollena: You know, like if you are in Southern California and you get a bag of oranges from anybody, like, they would literally walk up to your car and you're stopped at a red light and like, here's $3, and they give you like 30,000 oranges and you're like, oh my God.

Eat these. And you get home and you're like, how am I ever gonna stop eating these?

[00:41:53] Gwyn: these. Yes.

[00:41:55] Mollena: Right. Like, like, or, or again. Well, California is just like a big ass fruit factory. So I had friends who were giving away avocados because they lived in an area that used to be an avocado plantation. And avocados just, they're like desperately, they're like, please come and take them.

And if you're from the, from the east coast, you're like, are you fucking kidding me? Those things like 20 each. And then you go to like, um, uh, Hawaii, you go to Costa Rica where there's just like, you look around and there's like bunches of bananas just hanging out. She was like, can I just eat that? I can just eat it

[00:42:36] Gwyn: Yeah.

[00:42:37] Mollena: from the tree. I can just grab this banana, eat it. Then you eat it. It's like the best banana you've ever had.

Cause you in the US have never had a tree ripened banana. You cannot get it.

[00:42:49] Gwyn: Yeah. No, I can't even wrap my head around what that must

[00:42:52] Mollena: Isn't that nuts? It was so, it's oof. It's just so crazy. And you come to Europe and you have like farmer's markets, I mean farmer's markets in the us Sure. They do the thing and they bring it in. But in, in, in Gratz, for example, the city where, uh, GE was born and where he spent a lot of his youth, the farms are right over there.

So when you get ahead of lettuce, it's an, I, I've lost my mind. Like I picked this head of lettuce and there was this white, milky substance leaking outta the bottom. Like, the fuck is this? I'd never seen, first of all, I'd never seen a head of lettuce that wasn't slightly brown on the bottom.

[00:43:27] Gwyn: Right,

[00:43:28] Mollena: Right. So to see one that not only was white but was white and leaking let us sap, right.

I was just like, oh my God.

[00:43:36] Gwyn: like picked hours ago and brought to market.

[00:43:40] Mollena: All nuts. And the Austrian have a whole thing with asparagus. They have. They have several like weird things cuz you know the obsessions, but sparkle Zeit, which means like asparagus time is like, they put up these bad like sparkle zeit, like it's asparagus time, eat all these asparagus.

It's just like, all be asparagus, pee in the world, focus in this one country.

[00:44:03] Gwyn: I was just thinking the bathrooms must smell really good.

[00:44:07] Mollena: But I tell you like those fresh asparagus with the, with the thing and the, just with the butter that's, you know, also just made in the, oh, it's ridiculous. Then you come back home and you're like, why am I eating this?

[00:44:20] Gwyn: Yeah. Yep. Yeah, yeah. Vermont has asparagus like that, that, you know, farmer, what's his face grows, or, you know, lots of families I know just have beds of asparagus, and after having fresh asparagus, I was like, there's no point.

[00:44:34] Mollena: No,

[00:44:34] Gwyn: To having, uh, it's like tomatoes are like that too. Like I didn't realize how good tomatoes were, or strawberries for that matter.

I don't even eat strawberries anymore unless they're

[00:44:43] Mollena: no, no, no, no. There's no point. There's.

[00:44:46] Gwyn: like, I

[00:44:46] Mollena: had a,

[00:44:47] Gwyn: white.

[00:44:48] Mollena: when I was in my freshman year of college, a friend of mine who grew up in New Jersey invited me over to her house one weekend and we're hanging out, and her mom had this little light garden, you know, it is the garden state.

[00:44:59] Gwyn: Yes.

[00:44:59] Mollena: And she came back in with this giant ass tomato.

And I first looked at it and I was like, what is that? And she's like, oh, it's an heirloom tomato. It's like a old fashioned whatever. And I'm looking at it and I walk over and I'm like, oh my God. What? I was like, what does that smell? I was like, it has this, it smells cause the tomatoes, and you know what I'm about to say?

They were pink. They were all the same size. They were in those little crinkly ass plastic cages and they bounced and they were like all terrible. And I had never, like, when she sliced it open and all that, like the seeds and fucking gu ran out. It was like, what is that? What is that? And I, and they were like, well, you should try it.

I was like, and, and I knew logically in my head, the tomato are a fruit, but I had never seen a, like it always fell into the vegetable aisle for me because it was used in salads. It was all used as a savory. But then I was like, whoa, now I understand why it crosses that boundary. And they're just like laughing to tears.

They're just like fucking city kids. I'm like, Hey, if you guys had shared the tomatoes, if you had fucking brought 'em over the fucking, maybe I would've fucking had a good ass tomato before I was 19 years old. God damnit

[00:46:22] Gwyn: God. Yeah, right. Totally. So good.

[00:46:30] Mollena: are.

[00:46:33] Gwyn: No, I think we're supposed to talk about kink cause you're doing this really amazing project that I wanna be sure that everybody and their brother knows about the kink doula, which is so exciting to see you putting yourself out there in that way that you are making yourself accessible to people to directly learn from is beautiful and wonderful, and I'm so psyched that you're doing it

[00:47:01] Mollena: I, I will tell you, I, it took me a long time to even have the guts to do it. Firstly, because of self-esteem issues, because I'm like, who wants to listen to what I have to say? Who cares? And just some random weirdo, um, and who, you know, who spent a big chunk of her life as a drunk and fucking alcoholic and, you know, who am I to tell people what? And yet over the years, the people over and over and over again saying, you know, you should have an advice column. You should do a, you should have a talk show where you, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yes, yes. You know, hundreds of people who have no reason to blow smoke up my ass. Clearly you are part of the conspiracy to blow smoke up my ass.

And then I was at, um, a retreat with Barbara Carrellas who, you know, uh, and she teaches a, uh, retreat as part of the Urban Tantra training program. And I have been an assistant and support person for the program for years now. And this, the, the last session that I attended, we were talking about stuff and doing stuff.

A bunch of things happened. I had a really remarkable experience with another, uh, attendee. And the morning afterwards, we were talking about the. Seeing that we had done, the experience that we had, that she had felt really safe and nurtured and held in a way that she had not experienced before. And then someone else jumped in and was like, yeah, your writings and your teachings have been really instrumental to me figuring out who I was.

You asked a lot of questions that then I got to answer and just off of the top of my head, I was like, yeah, I guess I'm just like some sort of kink doula or some shit. And then I was like, dun, dun.

[00:48:56] Gwyn: The angels sing yeah.

[00:48:58] Mollena: right. I was like, wait, that's a thing. And one of the other people attending the workshop was herself a doula. And I said, if I were to like do that as a thing, is it offensive or problematic or am I stepping on the toes of other doulas? And the reason I asked that is cuz at one point, and this is part of the reason that I shrank back from it, I had come, I'd come up to the precipice of doing. I, thought maybe I would be a kink coach. Like, you know, like life coaching had become a big thing, uh, around the mid two thousands or the mid early two thousands, I guess is when that trend started. And I was like, I could be a life coach for, for people who were curious about kink stuff. And when I started talking about it out loud, I got stomped into the ground by several people who were certified coaches who were like, you absolutely do not have the right to call yourself a coach or to go and do coaching if you have not had the proper training because you can do so much emotional damage and you need to know what you're doing and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And that just like killed the vibe. And I was like, okay, fine. Fuck it. I'm not gonna go and spend thousands of dollars, uh, that I don't have on something that is that tentative and that uncertain as, as trying to start a coaching practice. Because I also watched people launch these sort of coaching practices, and then nothing happened and they're, you know, creeping back at their day jobs.

And so, you know, that, that sort of crushed it. And so when her response to me was, uh, if you're not calling yourself a kink a, a birth doula, then no. She's like, doula just means a woman who serves. And I was like, what? What, what? That's what a fucking, what? I was like freaking out and running in circles. I was like, how did I not know that?

And, and I was beating myself up because I was like, when I first heard the term, I literally assumed it was another word for midwife. You know, I assumed it was a word for midwife and, uh, it is not. And so it can be, but it is not automatically. And so I said, well, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it. And then I did one of the second hardest things that I had to do.

The first thing is to commit to an idea as a. While I don't believe in astrology. I am really very much a Gemini. I mean, it's all bullshit, you know? But I do have a fucking moon and Virgo and Sagittarius rising.

[00:51:29] Gwyn: Jesus.

[00:51:30] Mollena: for all I know, it's a, it's a

[00:51:32] Gwyn: Wow, okay.

[00:51:34] Mollena: mess, it's a mess, bro. This is why I don't believe in astrology. Cause I'm like, why is my fucking chart so terrible?

[00:51:41] Gwyn: It's not terrible. It's complex.

[00:51:45] Mollena: It's a pain in my ass, bro. It is a pain in my ass. It's so like, but the thing that's so funny is it does explain a lot of ridiculousness about my character. I'm like, how can I not give a fuck about this and lose sleep over it at the same time?

[00:52:05] Gwyn: Gemini. Sure.

[00:52:07] Mollena: Um, so it was, what was I saying? I lost my train of thought. So thing with the stuff, the kink doula. And Oh, yes, I, I realized that I was going to need help and that this was not something that I should undertake on my own. And part of my own personal complexity is I hate asking for help. Not because I'm proud, not because I'm, I'm, I'm too good for it.

But because if I ask someone for help and I'm disappointed and someone lets me down, I, I, I so do not want to have that type of energy, which I feel like is against someone. And it's very difficult for me to forgive people. And so I don't put people into scenarios where they might do something that might mean I'm disappointed in them, and then have to have a hard time forgiving them.

And so this is one of the ridiculously convoluted fucking reasons that I hate asking for help. Um, and so, but I said to myself, this is not a thing you can do on your own. It's physically impossible who you are. Is is not the sort of person who can just keep track of all the threads that need to come into play to do this.

You can't. So you're gonna have to get help and you're gonna, so I was like, ugh. So I, um, talked to Elise, who is amazing, and who is Barbara Carrellas right hand bitch when it comes to doing, uh, the, the stuff for Urban Tantra. And I said, if I can get Elise on board, then I will feel like I can do this and it will be a thing.

And so I was like, all right, Bish look, this is my idea. This is what I wanna do, and I need you to tell me a, if you think this is a good idea, first of all. And B you know, so she went and like wooed away on it and she was like, I'm in, I'm in, I'm in on it. And I was like, okay, fine.

And so it was remarkably delightful and wonderful. And what was so great about it is that I was working with someone I really trusted and we had enough. Background, and this is, this is the, the corollary to my, I don't wanna trust anyone. If there is someone I do trust and I do truly love, and they do shit on me, I know that the relationship has the strength within it to survive that.

And the thing is that a lot of relationships don't have the, the, the, uh, what is it? The money in the bank, right? Like in the first few years of getting to know people, there's times when, like, if they fuck up in certain ways, I'm like, I'm done. I'm, I'm done. Because I've just had too many times when people have repeat offended on shit.

When I have forgiven and overlooked stuff. And this is why I have these, these stop gap measures in place, is because I've been traumatized. And I don't wanna just be bitter and shut down. So I say, okay, what's a reasonable way for me to handle this? And I can adjust my expectations and my boundaries, and that's all I can do.

And once I do have someone I care about and I know and I trust, and the thing is like if Elise fucked it, fucked it up or fucked something over, I'd be like, Elise, you fucking bitch. What the hell? And you made me so say like, and, and this is gonna sound weird, but if I don't like you and I don't trust you, I'm not gonna get mad at you.

I'm not gonna do the work it takes to repair that relationship. I'm just done with you. I'm just done. I'm just gonna move the fuck on. And thankfully, uh, we care about each other and have very similar, uh, processes in terms of how our minds work, which is crazy and, and, and, and all over the place. And also very brilliant and really wonderful.

And she does a lot of like crazy spiritual shit that I. Resist. And then I get like annoyed about, and then I'm like, okay, fine, let's do your constellations.

And then I like get all this cool spiritual shit happening. and I'm like ok fine you made your point awesome And it took so much longer than initially we thought, because that's how life is. And there was a point where we were like getting close to ready to launch and then our website designer like vanished into the ether. Like literally just like moved to Alaska and just went away. And the middle of the building of the website that was like, um, But the Lord provides not, not the Jesus Lord, Lord Ganesha cuz fuck that other guy.

I mean, no, fuck him. He's fine. Whatever. He's cool, but he's not my Lord. I like the other one with the four arms and the big belly and the prehensile nose. That's the best part.

So, um, so, so yeah, so it took us a while, but we were working on it diligently and slowly and being very compassionate about our timeframe. Cause I was like, look, there's no rush. There's no, like, it'll happen when it happens and this is all, this is all good. And then what was really kind of amazing about it is that I had, um, an online friend of mine, someone I kind of knew from the community who, uh, we were messaging about other stuff.

And I had said something about my website thing and she's like, you know, that's my day job, right? So I was like, oh, you're hired. And so it was seamless. Like we lost the one designer and then someone who I really like and, and had found that I could rely on over the course of a couple of smaller graphic design projects turned out to be the perfect person for this other job.

So it really felt like things were falling into place and, and have started to happen. And, you know, folks are contacting me for, um, little exploration sessions and such. And what's good about it is that I have done the work to put it out there, and that's all I need to do. And I, I, not having the pressure on myself is the best part.

Like it'll, it'll happen in its time. It will grow in its time. It is here for when it is needed. And this is sort of the lesson that I have been learning over the course of the past few months, is to relax into the pace of life. That's really fucking hard for me as someone who's an addict, as someone who is veering between feeling like, you know, the, the empress of everything and the most worthless piece of crap.

Like, it's like, eh, eh, eh, maybe seven times in a day. Having that cycle. And so being at the point where I can say, I have created this space. I have put things out there, I have the structure in place, still working out the kinks, so to speak, as it were. But the first few sessions that I've had, the people I've spoken with, it has been so remarkable to me how spiritually fulfilling it is to just be open to and listening to another person, like with every cell that I can muster to do so.

That's what I love, is just listening to people's stories and then reflecting that back to them. That's my favorite part of this It's so terrific.

[00:59:34] Gwyn: Yes. That what, uh, I'm sort of stymied what a ride

[00:59:40] Mollena: Yes.

[00:59:42] Gwyn: That happens a lot, but also takes a second to, to

[00:59:47] Mollena: All of those things.

[00:59:49] Gwyn: um, the, the design. So did the graphic designer do the graphics for the

[00:59:56] Mollena: Yes,

[00:59:57] Gwyn: Uh, the, it's phenomenal. So I have, uh, I've never been a professional graphic designer, but I've, I've certainly dabbled with it.

Um, continue to win various hats, but, uh, uh, the, the picture of you sitted with the, with the logo just took my breath away when

[01:00:15] Mollena: I wanna send a shout out to Substantia Jones of the Adipositivity project for the photo, because it was really great to shoot with someone that is a, is a buddy and just a homie. And you just hear, so the energy just flows. The pictures just come out beautifully. And to my designer Jenna, who came up with this look and she came with a couple different things and then I was like, this is it.

I'm so fully feeling this cover of a 1970s self-help book feeling. Cause it was just like, so, it just feels so comfortable and so like relaxed and so like Earth Mama ish. And I was like, this is it. This is the, this is what I'm trying to convey. And I'm so glad to, to hear your feedback on that, that it'sworking

[01:01:00] Gwyn: Oh yeah, it's very inviting, very comfortable feeling and, and just, it's just, it's just stunning. Like it literally took my breath away when I saw it come through on the Facebook feed. I was like, that's gorgeous. So

[01:01:13] Mollena: So exciting.

[01:01:15] Gwyn: So when you're, you're, so it's sort of like coaching what you're doing? Yeah. I mean, I, I suppose that could be a bucket that it goes into.

[01:01:23] Mollena: It goes into it, it slides into various buckets. It um, it varies so far what it has become, and it's very interesting as people have contacted me from all over the map and. I had one instance, it was a one-off. It was, it was pretty much just a pep talk for someone who was feeling stuck and, and had been experiencing some shame that had been put onto them by other people.

And after an hour of talking, they were like in tears and feeling great. And I was like, wow, that was spectacular. Uh, that was just what they needed. And there was another person who was signed up for a series of chats, um, about their approach to, uh, dominant and submissive relationships. Someone else came and just really wanted to talk about issues about race and racism and the intersectionality there.

And so it changes. So really what I'm there for is to listen to where the person is and see if there's anything that I can help them with. And if there isn't, then to try to maybe brainstorm somewhere I can send them, uh, for other types of help. You know, uh, there was one person who I thought really would've benefited from working with someone in person.

And so I was like, I think you, you know, like we can talk all day and all night, but what you're looking for I think might be better off with someone who can do more hands-on, um, training for you. And they appreciated that. And then I was just like, great, because I'm not, I, I'm not hard lining this, I'm not doing follow up or you know, I'm not calling people again, I'm not like, if you wanna work with me, great.

If you don't or you forgot, then not a big deal. My bills are paid, I'm well taken care of. So this truly is a labor of love in the best possible way where it's just because I want to be able to help folks. You know? So I have a very generous sliding scale. Um, and I'm just curious and I wanna ask folks the questions that will get them to the place where they're asking themselves the questions that will get them where they need to be.

Cause that's what it is, right? Like I, I started therapy again recently. And I realized like the best thing, cause my, I'm always so cranky about therapists cause I was like, if I don't, if I feel like I'm a lot smarter than you, then I'm gonna have a hard time theripizing with you, which is, you know, it's not arrogant, it's just the way I am.

So I'm not, I I was about to say like, I'm kinda being an arrogant asshole. I'm like, no, no, nope. It's just my me

and I'm just being honest and it's just, it doesn't feel good. And the therapist I have was delightful by the third appointment. I was like, you know what the thing is that you're asking such incisive questions that it helps me to do my process and that's what I want.

I'm not trying to get you to fix me. There's nothing you can do there. But if you ask the correct questions, then you're getting me into the place where I can fix myself, right? And then my second part, I was like, you know what the other best part of therapy is? Is that youre not talking about your bullshit.

Like, there is no point in the conversation where it's gonna become about you. And the thing is like when, no matter how much you love someone, eventually the conversation's gonna be, I guess, just the conversations are right. Like they just move and they flow, and then the person wants to commiserate. So they share their stuff and then you're like, oh my God.

And then you're, you know, trying to work through their stuff with them. And then like, I'm like, no, this hour or this 55 minutes or 50 minutes, however it is to me, it's about me. It's my fucking time. Focus on me, look at me, me, me, me, me, me. And so I'd love to be able to give that to someone else. To say to someone, you know what?

You just tell me your shit. I'm only here to try to talk through, walk through ease through whatever the fuck it is you are going through right now, or thinking about or wanna go through or too scared to go through or, or have anxiety about, or just are confused. You know, I'm not gonna fix it or heal you, but I can ask you some very thoughtful questions and I can provide you with some really good supportive information that will assist you in, in moving forward, in pursuing it, if that's what you wanna pursue.

You know? But so many people think that they have to go out and do a bunch of shit just to be a pervert. I'm like, first of all, you just be it. Just be it. Just do it. It's a Nike thing. Hello. Good morning. I'm a pervert. Nah, how do you feel? Feel better. Yeah, you do now you're a pervert.

But it's, it's, it's so fascinating to me to see how many people had this curiosity and this desire. Just don't know what to do with it. And so it just sort of sits in the shelf in the back of their head and I'm like, take it off the shelf, dust it off, play with it. It's awesome.

[01:06:20] Gwyn: Are you finding, I mean, I know it's just getting started, so who knows where it will be in, in years and years? Um, but are you aiming at like people who are just kink curious or people who are one-on-one, or are you finding that people who are more experienced and wanting to look at different things are coming to you?

[01:06:37] Mollena: I, it, it has varied a lot. In one case it was literally people who were just starting to explore. And in another case it was, uh, someone who probably had about the same amount of experience as I did, was feeling well burnt out and was having some relationship shit that had sort of put them in the place of questioning a lot of stuff.

And so it varies. My fantasy, and this is part of the reason why, um, I, since I was going to be in Europe and this, this summer, I started putting my feelers out to my European peeps And managed to, it's so fascinating to me how I undermine my own self. Like, I'm like, I kind of wanna teach, but I don't know. Or people, does anyone give a shit?

And then I literally told two people in two countries, I kind of wanna do some stuff. And then it's like, here's three classes, here's two munches here's a event in Birmingham that happens every quarter that I'm gonna be teaching at. I'm gonna be doing two lectures here, a mini my, like in, in Austria, in Germany, in, in the uk.

And my fantasy is like the HBO series where I have like every week on three different guests. And we, you know, it's like that there's some show like that that's right now, but it, it seems to focus on like building a sex dungeon or something. And I'm like, and that's all cute and that's all really great and that sells but I want to like, I want it to be like, pimp your brain, right?

Like not, it's, it's not about like building the space and everything else. It's like just finding people. There's so much that we do that the non kink identified people would benefit so highly from, and I wanna talk to people about negotiating a relationship. You know, like I was having a, a, a hair, weave done, this woman was putting extensions in my hair and was, had taken a phone call with her partner and I was just like, that was some tense shit there.

And then we started talking and I was like, girl, like, hi, nice to meet you, d dump your boyfriend. Like, you're not gonna come there. But what I did say was, you know, if you are already having issues with this person, Around boundaries. Let me tell you how we handle boundaries as pervert. So I started talking about scene negotiation.

I started talking about the fact that like for kinky people, we do what is the equivalent of talking about whether or not you wanna have children on your first date. And I said, the reality is that's the most intelligent thing young motherfuckers could do. Cause you were then you were not wasting your time or their time.

Life is finite. I don't have the time to date someone for six months and then find out that they wanna have eight children. And I am absolutely not at all fucking interested in that. Or date someone for two years and find out that they actually hate dogs. You know, whatever the fuck it is. Like you vomit as much information as you can think of when you're negotiating a scene with someone.

You know, like you're like, I broke my arm when I was six. Like I, you know, you're like, you have 10 minutes to tell your life story. Just to give the, the, the, the person, the other person, the idea of who you are and also what your body is doing if you're doing physical shit. And she had like, her mouth was open.

She was like, so you can just do that. You can just like sit and tell someone what you want. I'm like, yeah, you fucking can. And I said, if you don't, I said, if you feel uncomfortable or shy about talking about how you want your pussy eaten, don't fucking go on a third date with that person. You need that person.

Like you need to know, and it needs to, you don't grow into revealing yourself. It doesn't get easier. That is the biggest lie that's perpetuated that somehow you grow into intimacy. How many relationships have you seen the opposite occur? Is it the longer you whistle and the harder it's to say that thing that you wish you'd said before?

Oh my god. Anyway, so yeah, so like by the time I was done, I had like this really nice hair weave and she was in tears and she was just like, I dunno what I would do. I was like, have the talk, man. Sit and talk to this motherfucker. Y'all have not even sat and had a good talk about this particular issue, you know?

Oh my gosh, this is what I want. I want to tell the default world about what we're striving for as kinky people. Obviously we fail a lot, but the reality is that's what we're aiming towards is emotional, spiritual intimacy. And there are so many ways that we do it that have nothing to do with pain and, and, and, and inflicting pain and psychological torment.

You know, there are, there are people who have entire kinky relationships where pain has nothing to do with it. They're people that have entire kinky relationships where sexual intercourse is not even a part of what they're doing. Right? Like, if you have people that are involved, I know I, I've seen couples where like, it's a gay man and a lesbian.

They ain't fucking, they're not fucking, but do they have a, a unique and beautiful bond as master and slave? Absolutely. You, there's so many pieces and parts to the puzzle that are moving parts that can be put together beautifully. If you learn to think outside of the fucking box. And that's what perverts are doing.

And this is my fantasy. I wanna like go and shake people and say, talk about it. Figure out what the fuck you want first, and then go and get it. But half of y'all don't even know what the fuck you want. You don't, and that's the problem. Well, I'm not getting, I'm not getting, what do you want? Uh oh yeah. You have a missing person's poster in your heart with no picture.

[01:12:43] Gwyn: Oh, wow. That's a striking image.

[01:12:47] Mollena: That's what the fuck you are doing if you don't know what you're looking for.

[01:12:51] Gwyn: Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Again. Um, so I'm a slower person, so it takes a second for things to sort of filter in process, um, just in general. Uh, so I find myself going, uh, okay. Um, so

[01:13:14] Mollena: it's being absorbed.

[01:13:16] Gwyn: that's right. I, it just give me 10 seconds here. Okay. Um, so because you are well known as, a a Submissive slave. Clearly a powerful person.

But are you finding dominants being interested in talking to you too, or,

[01:13:33] Mollena: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It has been, I will say it has been probably about an even split,

[01:13:41] Gwyn: Oh, that's so good.

[01:13:42] Mollena: which is really heartening to me actually, to tell you the truth, because when I first started getting into teaching and lecturing, et cetera, low these decades ago, God, I'm fucking old, there were not a lot of people who identified as submissives and slaves who were teaching at all.

Right? And there was not a lot of teaching that was about non tactile aspects of BDSM So there were plenty of classes on rope bondage, uh, had just started becoming a thing. So everyone was learning shibari. There were classes on, like the first five classes I went to were like knife place, spanking. Um, slave positions, um, uh, protocol and etiquette for service, you know, and these were all taught by dominants and tops who were shilling you know, whatever.

And the dominant that I was in service to was one of the first people to start to teach shibari locally. Um, when shibari started to become a thing in the late nineties, I would say, is when it first started really hitting on the West Coast. And the reason I started teaching was twofold. The first was that I was the stunt bunny for one of his classes because he wanted to have a fuller figured person.

And because every cuz I was just complaining about it, I was like, why are all the fucking rope bondage models, these little tiny girls who, you know, like you can do anything to. I was like, I weigh three times as much as this girl. You can't do the same thing. So you need to teach people how to, you know, like, because I started having people say shit to me.

I had a man literally look me in the face and say, you're too fat for suspension. And I was like, bitch, they move pianos. This sounds like a you problem, not a me problem.

[01:15:28] Gwyn: Boats like, my

[01:15:30] Mollena: was like, what the fuck are you talking about? But you know what the thing is, bro? It's crazy. I joined TikTok because fucking Sunny Megatron started yelling at me.

She's like, you need to get on there and say some shit because the kids are being misled

[01:15:49] Gwyn: Uh, I could

totally

[01:15:50] Mollena: and so I was like lemme just put up some videos and just leave them there so that people can like cross reference of me being. I was just like, if anyone ever tells you that you are too fat for a suspension, what they're telling you is that they are inexpert and ignorant and you have saved yourselves from being injured by that person.

Thank you because it's a matter of physics and more rope. That's it. That's it. More rope. Think about the physics. Think about leveraging, think about stress points. Put some more rope on that fat ass and go, fuck is wrong with you.

And we're still having people saying this shit 27 years later, 30 years later. You kidding me? Stop. Stop. Oh my goodness gracious. So I just, I, I, I, I want to be able to say to the planet, to the world, to everybody, you don't have to be a pervert to benefit from what perverts do. Right. You know, you don't, you don't have to go into the dungeon and do whatever.

But having a negotiation checklist when you are talking about sex for the first time with someone, the fact that we are even doing that, Apparently vanilla people are not talking about, they're not sitting down having a conversation fully dressed about what the fuck they're gonna do when they're naked and shit gets intense.

I'm like, you talk about that first. You better have your shit together. Oh my gosh. That's like panic point to me. I'm like, you, you, you're not gonna, oh, no, no, no, no. You need to know first. You don't wait until you're in the suspension and upside down to mention that you are asthmatic that shit up front. PS Wait, hold.

[01:17:39] Gwyn: Oh my God,

[01:17:41] Mollena: But the default beats relationships like that. Like you're just supposed to stumble around and discover each other. No, no. Believe, trust and believe that there's going to be more for you to discover. You can negotiate exhaustively and you will still be surprised. However, the hope is that the surprise is not one that knocks you off your feet, but one that at the most maybe brushes you back.

And so you can say who, okay, thank you. Let's step back into it. Let's figure this out. Like that's the point. That's where the beauty lies. So that's my hope is that like, I mean, I don't know that, that, that, that, you know, next time I'm on, yeah, I'm on your podcast and someone's sitting there driving and they're like, yes, this message needs to be brought to the world.

And they're an executive for hbo and they call you and they're like, how do I get.

[01:18:31] Gwyn: Please. That would be wonderful. It

[01:18:36] Mollena: Because I really feel like we, we, we have so much that we do. Right. And I wanna share that with folks.

[01:18:43] Gwyn: Yeah. Yeah. No, and, and in terms of getting you a show, it seems to me that there's enough people who know enough people that somebody ought to know somebody who's

[01:18:53] Mollena: Someone's gotta, I'm just gonna keep talking it. I'm just gonna keep doing it. Cause I was like, eventually the thing will happen.

[01:18:59] Gwyn: Yeah. Totally

manifest that

shit.

[01:19:02] Mollena: yes. Woo.

[01:19:09] Gwyn: Oh, it's so exciting. It's really, it's so wonderful. So having read both the books, two books, right? The, the Taboo Taboo Book

[01:19:18] Mollena: I got the little taboo thing I got. Yeah. And I have, I have a bunch of articles. I have a, uh, the Ultimate Guide to Kink, which is a book that I actually really dig a lot. Um, I actually have two.

Uh oh. You should check it out. It's good. It's got a

[01:19:31] Gwyn: I will totally, yeah.

[01:19:33] Mollena: A lot of different essays in it. I actually, um, because, because of the way Gmail used to be, I have two essays in this book.

Uh, Tristan Taino is the editor and she wrote to me and said, I want you to write, uh, uh, a piece for my next book. I was like, great. Uh, asked some questions and she then she wrote back and then she wrote again. And Google used to collapse emails. If you recall, if you got an email on top of a new one, you had to go back and look and, sorry, you know, attention Deficit Gemini.

I was not doing that. And so I read the second email that I thought was her response to my other email, wrote this piece, sent it to her. A couple days later I got an email back saying, um, uh, hey, this is not actually not what I asked you for, uh, but don't freak out. And I was like, what? I'm like, what do you, I was like, first of all, whatcha are you talking about?

That's exactly what you said. And she was like, no, I said, blah, blah. And I was like, when did you say that? Anyway, so then I look at, I was like, oh my God. And she said, no, no, no. I'm buying it. I want this. She's like, I want this article. She's like, I didn't even know I want it, but I want it. But can you please write the other one that I asked you for first?

[01:20:55] Gwyn: Sure.

[01:20:57] Mollena: And I was like, wow. That if I had tried to do that, if I tried to be like, lemme sell her too, which I would never do, I wouldn't have come up with that. I was so perfect. But that's a, I also recommend that it has a lot of really interesting takes on many different, various types of kink and play. It's psychological, physical, emotional, spiritual shit.

It's very, very, uh, broadcasting net on various types of kink and sm stuff.

[01:21:24] Gwyn: Yeah. Yeah, actually I do think I have it. I think I just, everything's packed up and in storage, so I don't, which is why I, I would've pulled out the books that, that I do know that I, cuz I have recommended them many times to folks. The, the, the

took, oh, they're so good. And the plays wells with playing well with others such, and, and they're, they're things that are not generally talked about.

Like, yeah, we get the, we get the spanking 101 classes, we get, you know, the, the, like, the very basic beginnings. There's so much beginner stuff, which is great. I mean, hallelujah, that it's out there. I'm so glad that it's out there. But there isn't a lot of getting into these deeper, more intense places

and, and, and how to do it with other people as the other book, the playing well with others.

And so I really, really appreciate those books. And then the fact that you are now making yourself available for folks. With, you know, not just randomly available, but with certain, but with guidelines and appropriate natures. Um, it's, I I just feel like it's such a, a blessing to, to the community, to people, to the world in general.

And I'm really delighted and grateful, um,

[01:22:46] Mollena: Thank you.

[01:22:47] Gwyn: Yeah, yeah, and, and like truly heartfelt. I really appreciate it. Um,

[01:22:54] Mollena: you.

[01:22:55] Gwyn: yeah. And if for no other reason than if, you know, I'm like, yeah, no, go, go check him, go, go to Melina. Like I don't this, I I'm not in the place.

[01:23:06] Mollena: She's got stuff she won't, she will not shut up.

[01:23:10] Gwyn: No, not at all. More like she will be able to tell you what it really is and be honest about it and Yeah. Not that I would send you fuckery cuz you know I'm not an asshole.

[01:23:22] Mollena: Oh, thank you. Thank you. Uh, enough of that actually, actually did have one person who, uh, uh, about halfway through the little interview thing, I realized that she had not called at all for, for kink doula reason. She, she had an issue with something I had said at a keynote speech.

[01:23:41] Gwyn: Oh,

[01:23:41] Mollena: And she, yeah, I was, you know that thing where like, you're like, are you, did you seriously come into my workplace essentially to like white woman about a joke I made at a keynote speech?

Yeah,

[01:23:54] Gwyn: my fucking God.

[01:23:56] Mollena: Yeah. Yeah. And the you and the things that, like, I was trying to be professional and do the whole thing, but what I really wanted to do was say like, are you fucking kidding me? You literally like, and, and the thing that was crazy about it was I did a, I did a keynote speech at a leather convention and it was a big fucking deal and, um, At one point I had, I was quoting another person who was in the room and he is, uh, a leatherman I respect so highly.

And, uh, I had said, I, I, and I said, I'm going to quote, I'm gonna quote Master Skip. And I said, um, hopefully I get the quote correct. I said, master, skip hit me back if I don't. And I said, okay, for all you white people don't act. He's not, I'm not actually inviting him to strike me. This is, uh, AAVE African-American vernacular English.

Like I made a little joke of it. People are laughing. And so apparently this bothered her and it just ate away at her for the rest of the weekend. And she just was like, wanted to know basically like, why is it okay for her to make a joke about white people being stupid? And I was like, I didn't say anyone was stupid.

Ignorance is not stupidity. I made a joke about white people not knowing an AAVE term

[01:25:10] Gwyn: cultural.

[01:25:12] Mollena: which is a cultural reference. And, um, it's in the same way that people like explain shit to boomers or, you know what I mean? Like that sort of like OK Boomer sort of joke. Like, lemme explain to you how apps work, what, what an app.

But it's, it's like a thing that isn't, you know, and, and, and part of me was very upset because I wanted to tell it to fuck off, but I said, you know what? Use this as a learning experience. See if you can, you know, tell her to go fuck herself. Um, politely. And I did. I felt like I was quite successful in that.

[01:25:46] Gwyn: Oh my God. I would love lessons on that firstly I dunno how to do that at all. And I just go, oh, this isn't worth my time. And I just walk away. Um,

[01:26:05] Mollena: It's, it's, it's, it's one of the things that I don't always manage to do, but I do work on it. And some of that is straight up survival technique, because as a black woman, there's just too many times where the type of anger that is completely allowable and understandable could get me shot,

[01:26:29] Gwyn: right.

[01:26:29] Mollena: um, or handcuffed.

So the snappy comeback or the spicy retort is something that you try to hone. The problem is, it's sometimes like if I don't have the spicy comeback, then I'm like waking up at 4:00 AM for the next six weeks going, oh, I shoulda said,

[01:26:51] Gwyn: I mean, yeah, that, I think that's, that's humanity right there. Or maybe that's just those of us, uh, who are neuros spicy. I do that too. Like, God dammit, I should've said the thing and now I won't say this thing, and now I'm gonna

perseverate on it for six months.

[01:27:08] Mollena: Exactly. And then I sit there and I'm like, we're just gonna reminisce about the times that we did kill it in the spot. Like I was, I was, uh, years back, I was at a show with a friend of mine, my best friend Julie, and we're sitting, waiting for the show to start. It was, I don't remember which Shakespeare it was, but it was some Shakespeare show that we were seeing up at Marin Theater Company.

This is when I still lived in the Bay Area. And as I'm sitting there, I feel a hand stroking my head. It is not Julie.

And I see her looking behind me frozen, like, like just this like bug eye look. And I look at her and she's like, oh. And I'm sure she's like, I don't even know what's gonna happen next. And so there was a couple of white ladies sitting behind me and this woman had just started patting my head, stroking my hair.

And I and I, I sat there like my, I felt my soul, like, leave my body in with just so much rage, but I didn't say anything. I didn't move. And like a good five seconds goes by. And finally she leans forward and says, oh my gosh, I'm sorry. I just couldn't resist your hair. Just looked so soft and so wonderful.

And I, and I, I let her sit there as she trailed off and I said nothing. And I just slowly started turning my head around to look at her and I caught her friend's eye first cuz her friend was sitting a seat away from me. And I just looked and I could tell, and like her mouth, like snapped shut like, like she did that. So I know I, and I was like, okay, the look is ready. Great. I got it. And as I turned around to this woman, like she paled and backed up and flinched and I just stared into her eyes for like a good five seconds. And then I said, you know what? It's been a good solid 300 years since you were allowed to do whatever the hell you wanted to me.

[01:29:11] Gwyn: Oh shit.

[01:29:16] Mollena: Dead fucking like, and then I took, as long as it took me to turn my head backwards back around, and Julie was like, she had her eyes squeezed shut. And she was just shaking. And I was like, don't you laugh? And I was like, bitch, you better not.

So by, by intermission, I'll tell you they did not come back after intermission. I don't, I was like, she got through the, she got through the first act, but she didn't come back. I, I, I am assuming I either she moved or she was just so traumatized. I hope,

I hope she didn't move. Different seat. She could have just done that.

That was one of the moments where I was just like, oh, ooh. And Julie was like, that was so, she goes, I'm so glad she goes. I just felt like I was blessed to be able to witness that shit.

[01:30:11] Gwyn: that's fucking beautiful.

[01:30:14] Mollena: I was like, so anytime, like some white woman, white woman's me and I don't have the comeback. I'm like, don't ever forget Marin. You always, you will always have Marin girl.

[01:30:26] Gwyn: Oh my God, I, the audacity of some people,

[01:30:30] Mollena: Dude, it was so crazy. It was so

crazy.

[01:30:35] Gwyn: I Oh,

[01:30:37] Mollena: And the thing is like if you, if you are not culturally American, there certainly are cultures where touching is different, right? Like, like there's, there's, there's, there's other shit. Like I, it's part of the reason why, uh, if I ever, um, Uh, decide to go to China. I'm bringing a bodyguard cuz I have heard some stories and I have seen some video and I'm like, nope, I am not your cultural exchange negro.

I'm not gonna be that black person who's okay with what y'all are doing. Cuz apparently, like in the larger cities, it's not as much, it's not as prevalent, but like if you go anywhere, like outside of like Beijing or someplace where there's sort of more accustomed to tourists, um, yeah, they'll touch you. And I'm like, no, no, don't touch me. Like, and this is not even like, this is beyond like a race thing. This is just like, don't fucking touch me bro.

Like, I don't want, I don't want like people I know ask if they can touch me. How do you think you get a pass? Like, people I know are like, Like, you know,

you do that little gesture like like whatever you need, but like, you don't just roll up on someone and start.

[01:32:05] Gwyn: Yeah.

[01:32:05] Mollena: that, I'm not that guy. I'm not that guy. But yeah, so yeah.

[01:32:11] Gwyn: Yeah. No, that's some nonsense. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I'm

so

sorry for all of the nonsense that

[01:32:20] Mollena: you know, it's, it's, it's interesting because I, when I first got involved in the kink and the BDSM community, I had this idea that kinky people, because so many of us are nerds and dweebs and dorks and weirdos and outcasts, that we would also have that kind of forward thinking mentality when it came to issues of gender and race and all these other things, and it's not true.

It's like, you know what I finally landed on? I was like, look. It is a microcosm, not a utopia. It is not that the cream of the crop has been skimmed off, and those are the perverts. It's a core sample of everything from the best of the best and the pures of the pure to the serial killers, right? Like it's everybody, everybody's here and most of us are just doing our best.

But every once in a while, you know, you have to have that. And it's one of the, one of the other reasons I was really driven to teach. I was at a class on rope bondage and the teacher was talking for five minutes about how checking the fingernails was an excellent way to check for circulation. I was like, what if person's black? What if they're black? Are, are, are, you know, there's plenty of people. I mean, I'm medium tone and my fingernails are a different color. I said, if you're darker than me, it's not gonna help you at all. If you're a white person, you're not gonna know what to look for. And I said, you're, you're, you're. Whole, like skin, like looking for redness or whatever else is not gonna help because my skin doesn't look like that.

When it is stressed. It doesn't look like that. So do you have any advice? And her response was, oh well I haven't tied up any black people. I was like, okay, then you should say that at the top of your class, your class is for white people. And there was this huge uncomfortable silence. I'm like, what? Your class is for white people.

Your class is not rope bondage for everyone if you don't know these things. So stop. And then I'm the bitch, right? Like, ugh. And I was like, let me just go out and just say the things. Let me just empower other brown people to also speak up so that when you're in the classes, you what you're making sure. You know, someone was doing a class on piercing, and I was like raising my hand. I was like, what if I was like, how do you handle this with keloids?

What are you doing to help, uh, avoid long-term scarification with this piercing? If you're using high gauge needles, you know, the high gauge needles have a much higher percentage. I'm like, I would like to show you, you're talking about this type of, of scene, like it never leaves marks. I can, like, for three years I had marks on the back of my legs from a piercing scene. Thank God that the woman who did the piercing scene was an anal retentive fucking maniac. The fucking maniac part was like stronger, was the strongest part. Fucking terrible human being. Oh my god. But the, the, the marks looked fantastic because they were equidistant and balanced and gorgeous cuz that's the kind of piercer she was. Um, but I said, you know, you need to understand that for many people with darker skin, I said, and some Irish people, there's a whole chunk of Irish people who get keloid scars as well.

It's very interesting. Um, a piercing can leave a scar or a mark that might take a very long time to heal, but y'all won't fucking know that. And you're just like letting people go do whatever the fuck. You know? I was like, single tails. Oh yeah, single have, nope, no, they can leave very serious scars. I mean, you're not gonna look like the back of that poor ancestor.

May he rest in, in power forever. In this one very famous picture of a slave who had been repeatedly whipped on the back to blood. But I have several scars that took many years to clear up from the type of whipping that would not have phased the skin of a, a, a pale Caucasian person. I think this is why the intersectionality is important.

This is why it's critical that you have teachers from varying backgrounds, you know, and so many event producers wanna act like this is some sort of woke bullshit. I'm like, no, it's fucking safety. It's because there are differences. It's because it, it, it's a real thing. And if you have taught people how to look for warning signs and you haven't taught that, the warning signs for skin differences and changes is going to be different for, you know, depending on the melanin content of the skin, depending on the fat content of the skin, then you're doing people a disservice and you are not inclusive.

So, you know, whatever, whatever. Woke culture, uh, Yet another time that Caucasians ruined a perfectly innocent word.

[01:37:15] Gwyn: Oh my God.

[01:37:17] Mollena: I was like, what means you are aware of what's going on around you and you give a shit? How did you criminalize that? How did you make that a bad thing? Oh my God.

[01:37:31] Gwyn: Just put a bow tie on it, you know? And that's

[01:37:37] Mollena: these motherfuckers,

[01:37:40] Gwyn: as a Doctor who fan, I am deeply offended that Tucker Carlson wears a bow tie. You ruined bowties. Oh my God.

[01:37:56] Mollena: Son of a bitch.

[01:37:57] Gwyn: Right. I, and I didn't know that about Irish people, and I'm wondering, I'm sitting here wondering if, if that's also for Jews because I, I also, I mean, I don't keloid the way that most black people do, but I definitely keloid more than most white people do. Um,

[01:38:15] Mollena: might be, there might be some, because there's, there's another, there's a couple of, like, there's intersectionality, like for example, uh, uh, Jews, black people, lots of Asian people lactose intolerant for example, right? Like, Like, when I was still lactose intolerant, I outgrew it middle aged, kicked it outta my system.

Dunno how that happened. Jai Ganesha very happy

about it. But like, when I was taking like lactate pills and I'd be out and like, if I was low, I'm like, oh my God, I don't have lactate pills. It would always be like, like the two Koreans and the Jews. It'd be like, I got, I got the Lact. And there's also, there's also some like, uh, so there, there, there, there are these things where they cross over.

Right? And it might not have to do with, there might be some other genetic shit because obviously there's all sorts of stuff, information coming through. But it's like, what was the other one? There was another interesting one. There was the, the, oh, I have a Thalassemia, which is a type of anemia that apparently is shared with like a lot of African people and the Sephardic.

There's a whole Sephardic stream of, you know, a bunch of, and that makes sense. Mm-hmm. Right? Like that, you know, you've got a lot of intersectionality happening there, um, where our blood cells are too tiny. And I was like, what the, what the hell?

What the fuck is that? I was like, bodies are ridiculous.

[01:39:37] Gwyn: They're very weird. Yeah. Bodies are weird. Frequently, I, I mean, at least once a day, I literally say that out loud and I live by myself. That

[01:39:50] Mollena: And your body's like, I know, right.

[01:39:53] Gwyn: What the fuck? Oh my God. So I could literally talk to you all day. Um, but I have another interview at five o'clock, so, um,

[01:40:09] Mollena: I should probably start packing cause we have to move tomorrow. This is my favorite part about this type of trip. I, I actually do dig this sort of like, you know, five days here, five days there, a week there kind of thing. But having to like, move your shit. I'm like, oh, I gotta move.

[01:40:25] Gwyn: And I've seen how you travel. You don't travel light

[01:40:29] Mollena: Well I will say I am for, for, for, for me, for, for this amount of time. I have one large and one small suitcase in

[01:40:36] Gwyn: What?

[01:40:38] Mollena: Yeah. For three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really, I really, really, it took me several months to figure out like, A wardrobe thing. Like I actually bought a couple of the, there's this's this huge push towards a wool stuff.

So like this whole Marino wool thing that's supposed to be like, perfect for any weather, perfect, blah, blah, blah, blah. So like I did that capsule wardrobe thing where I like sat and I was like, okay, this with this, these, with these three things, these with these four things, this with these things and everything has a multiple use.

[01:41:10] Gwyn: rock on.

[01:41:11] Mollena: You know, I got myself down to like four hats.

[01:41:15] Gwyn: That's impressive.

[01:41:17] Mollena: Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you.

So I was just like, so I, so I, I am extremely proud because with that, with this much moving, I was like, I can't for three months under normal circumstances, like, and I'm doing and I'm teaching and we have premieres like

[01:41:36] Gwyn: Yeah. You have to look stunning and you have to be able to move comfortably.

[01:41:40] Mollena: yes. And I like the fact that I did it in one large and one small suitcase. I'm extremely proud.

[01:41:46] Gwyn: Props. Like that's Yes, like for real. That's, yeah. I pack like that to go away for a week, so,

[01:41:54] Mollena: yeah, right.

[01:41:55] Gwyn: and I don't wear stunning hats. I wish I did

[01:41:58] Mollena: Oh, like, right, like this is like, I would not roll into any leather convention with this amount of shit like this. a weekend.

[01:42:08] Gwyn: Right, right, right. Oh my gosh.

[01:42:12] Mollena: Oh my God. It's, but yes, so I, I, I did the damn thing because I was like, I'm gonna be getting on and off trains all over Europe and as it is, so many of the trains just don't, first of all, there's no checking your shit like on Amtrak. That's not a thing.

[01:42:28] Gwyn: Right.

[01:42:29] Mollena: And a lot of the trains don't literally have like maybe in one, in the center of the second class car, one rack for shit.

So everyone, you either have to put it above or sort of hold it next to you as everyone kind of wiggles through the aisle. It's a, it's, it's, it's a one shortcoming of these trains. They're not built for tourists. They're not built for

tourists. They're just built for like, like, oh, I'm just spending the, I'm just going, you know, for the weekend to wherever it's, it's, it's commuter shit.

And so like you see the two, like you see tourists get on and looking around like, oh my God. Like there's nowhere. Find an empty seat and hope no one sits there. Like that's what you, that that's the other thing is that you just look and you see there's no reservation for the seat. They have a little like lighted thing and you hope to God no one needs that seat and you just jam your suitcase there, keep your fingers crossed.

So that's a bit of a drag And I was like, I don't wanna deal with that with like two huge suitcases, you know? At least if, if I have one small suitcase, at least I know one can go up and I only have to deal one.

[01:43:29] Gwyn: right.

[01:43:30] Mollena: You know? So that was my, that was my, and I'm very glad that I

had the discipline to do so cause holy shit

[01:43:39] Gwyn: Yeah. That's amazing. So I, I wanna just real quick say thank you so much for coming on. This has

[01:43:47] Mollena: thank you. It was fantastic. And then you can let me know, like if you're like, you know what, this is my new format, bullshit.

[01:43:57] Gwyn: excellent. Um, I think I'm still, we'll see. We'll, we'll, like I said it, I have no idea when I'm even gonna sit down and try and edit this, so who knows what I'm gonna do. My inclination is like, nope, we got enough to make it like a podcasty podcast in the format that is like informational. And then I could just do a whole lot.

But we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. I'm not, no promises. The other piece is on a personal level. I, I, I know you all the things. Um, I was so uptight for so long that I messed something up in your house because I have anxiety. So it's so nice to know that that is not the case, or if I did that, you're over it.

That whatever it was. And so, no, that's just me. It's

totally

on me. Nothing on you.

[01:44:46] Mollena: I

[01:44:46] Gwyn: when I, nothing, nothing happened, but because I have anxiety,

[01:44:51] Mollena: Oh, oh, oh. You were just saying you had the eggs. Oh my gosh, honey.

[01:44:55] Gwyn: like, yeah, no, I know. So I just wanted to clear that up because mention

[01:44:59] Mollena: If something had wrong, I would've said, Hey, can you address this thing that went wrong?

[01:45:04] Gwyn: Well, but you might not have, because I might not have been worth your time. This is

[01:45:10] Mollena: Uh, yes, but yeah. No, but no, no. It's a thing.

[01:45:13] Gwyn: so, yeah, so,

[01:45:15] Mollena: no, not that I know of. Unless now I'm paranoid. Now I'm gonna be

[01:45:18] Gwyn: No, oh, God

[01:45:19] Mollena: I'm

[01:45:21] Gwyn: would've figured out by now.

I mean, we talked about the mapping. Yeah, no, that's fine.

[01:45:26] Mollena: go see if there's any secret. Secret. Dead mice taped under my mattress.

[01:45:32] Gwyn: Jesus. I didn't do anything like that.

[01:45:41] Mollena: That's what she did.

[01:45:45] Gwyn: I had never used a B day before when I was at your house. That was exciting.

[01:45:50] Mollena: Let me tell you. Thank you, Japan. I was just like, I'm just.

[01:45:53] Gwyn: God.

[01:45:54] Mollena: I could not believe because I'm the sort of person, like if I poop and I'm at home, I'll jump in and grab the shower and wash my butt. And so I'm just like, I'm just like, lemme wash my butt. And then when I was in Japan, I was like, how do we live like such nasty

[01:46:08] Gwyn: Oh God. We're fucking animals, right?

[01:46:12] Mollena: We are gross. When I was in fucking Morocco during the fucking, when the plagues started off, like the Africans were like, why do they have to teach you how to wash your hands? Don't you know how to wash your hands? Like, cause we're nasty. No we don't.

I was like I said, I told them, I was like, this is why we stayed here bitches.

Cause you, y'all are Muslims and you're washing all the fucking time. Cause you have to, to pray. There's like on the street everywhere there's faucets with little buckets of soap and water and brushes there for you to, to wash up before you pray. And every house has a B day because before you pray, you have to wash your ass too.

[01:46:52] Gwyn: yeah. Damn it. We're such

[01:46:55] Mollena: I'm like, you can just go to church nasty if you want. No, nope. The Muslim God has said you do not get on that little fucking rug. Clean. Clean your shit. Clip your nose hair, get your under the fingernails, all that shit.

[01:47:10] Gwyn: Brilliant. Brilliant. Right. And so the o the other piece was that I know you're hardly ever here, but if, when you are, you ever need, want help, I, I am truly someone who enjoys doing for people. And so like that is a genuine offer. I, I know I've offered before on Facebook, but like if you need me to come over and help you unpack or pack or whatever, like I am,

[01:47:35] Mollena: thank you.

[01:47:36] Gwyn: I live in Brooklyn now.

I can do that. It's an hour

[01:47:39] Mollena: Hey, where in Brooklyn are you?

[01:47:41] Gwyn: um, sort of on the border of Crown Heights and Prospect Heights,

[01:47:45] Mollena: Cool.

[01:47:45] Gwyn: so near the park in the museum and stuff.

[01:47:47] Mollena: Nice.

[01:47:50] Gwyn: It is, it's really lovely. And um, I do genealogy as a hobby and so my family lived here, literally lived here. Like I walk past one of the apartments that they lived in

[01:48:03] Mollena: Whoa.

[01:48:03] Gwyn: fairly regular.

It's so cool. It's like one of those things I'm like, that is really neat. That is. I like how like ended up in the neighborhood that my aunt lived in and my dad used to walk down to Ebos Field

and now my

[01:48:17] Mollena: man. That's amazing.

That's so

[01:48:20] Gwyn: in the building. That is what used to be EBS Field. Yeah. Wild, wild

[01:48:25] Mollena: My, uh, we lived my grand, my father's parents. I don't know anything about my dad's side, but I do know that when in the seventies, the, my grand, my father's parents owned a brownstone on Putnam Avenue, 7 77 Putnam Avenue. In Flatbush. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In Flatbush. That's where they lived. We lived there briefly when I was probably nine or so.

Um, that was my only foray to Brooklyn.

[01:48:52] Gwyn: That's really neat. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently my grandfather owned a butcher shop on the Lower East side somewhere, and I, and it's

[01:48:59] Mollena: Oh, that's so

[01:49:00] Gwyn: and I keep, man, keep wanting to get over there. I don't have a lot of friends here. I don't have a lot of community, so that's part of why I'm offering not purely altruistic.

Okay. A little, mostly altruistic. But no, it would be nice to have like an actual human being to talk to on a, on occasion

[01:49:18] Mollena: Yeah, it would. And this is, and it's, it's hard in New York.

It

it's, it's, it's very hard because, and I try, we try, we keep trying to figure this out among my, you know, like long-term friends. Cuz I have several friends who I absolutely adore, one of whom lives like maybe three miles from me of

town. And we're just always like, okay, lunch.

And then like a month goes by,

[01:49:40] Gwyn: Yep. Yeah. Well, and also like as adults, you know, like we have so much shit going on. Making friends as adults is challenging, and then just life. Life is

[01:49:49] Mollena: getting off your ass is challenging.

[01:49:52] Gwyn: well. Yeah. There's that too.

[01:49:56] Mollena: And this is the thing, I spent so much time off my ass. Like, this is the thing like when, now that this year is how our, the first six years of our relationship, were like, covid, shut it down. But we typically spent the whole summer on the fucking road. If I'm at home, I don't wanna do shit. Don't talk to, don't

[01:50:13] Gwyn: I get that. I totally get that. Yeah. Yep.

[01:50:19] Mollena: surrounding.

[01:50:22] Gwyn: Yeah. Now I gotta go. All right.

[01:50:30] Mollena: Love you. Thank

you so much.

[01:50:32] Gwyn: I love you too.

And thank you. I. Such a great time and truly like anytime you wanna just shoot the shit, hit me up and, um, and, uh, we'll see what happens with the podcast.

[01:50:44] Mollena: Very good.

[01:50:45] Gwyn: All right, talk to you soon. Bye.

[01:50:48] Mollena: Bye.

[01:50:51] Gwyn: If you enjoyed this raw, pretty much unedited conversation, there are more of them if you join me on Patreon, and you can do that by going to patreon.com/whatexcitesus. And if you really like it and you wanna hear more of these in the feed instead of my edited stuff. Let me know in general, let me know. I love feedback. I mean, who doesn't love feedback, but I love feedback and I even like the negative feedback because it helps me figure it out appropriately. So talk back to me please. You can do that at whatexcitesus.com or you can find me, I'm all over the socials and DM just let me know that you're a listener and um, yeah, that's it.

Thanks so much and don't forget to be kind to yourself today.