What Excites Us!

Episode 76: Who’s Moving the Matresses with Jamie Love

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Transcript:

Ep 76 - Who’s Moving the Matresses with Jamie Love

[00:00:00] What would it be like to have a sex life that was completely on your terms? Can you even imagine what that would be? Well, in this tell-all episode, we are lucky enough to talk with someone who is living her sex life on her terms

[00:00:15] 

[00:00:30] 

[00:00:34] Hello, and welcome to What Excites Us. My name is Gwyn Isaacs. I am a sex coach. I've been working with folks since 2017, and I do this podcast in part so that you will know you are okay. Today's guest is so much more than okay. Jamie Love is the executive director of Sex Positive World and Sex Positive Portland.

[00:00:58] She has also [00:01:00] recently joined Portland Leather Alliance, and she's gonna tell us so many wonderful things, including about her six to nine different lovers, the way that she enjoys a cuddle party, her newest fun thing of being a sushi table. We talk about primal play, we talk about sensuality, and you want to hear all of it.

[00:01:23] She also tells us about how to get involved with Sex Positive World, the wonderful events that they host, and how to enjoy your sex life the way that you want to. But it's really more about the fun stuff that she does.

[00:01:37] Gwyn Isaacs: welcome Jamie Love to What Excites Us. This is the third time that you've come on, and this is- 

[00:01:44] Jamie Love: think, I think so, yeah. I think it's three. 

[00:01:46] That's so cool.

[00:01:47] I love that so much. Yeah. And it's a totally different version of why it is that you're here. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:01:57] Gwyn Isaacs: Let's start with, what is [00:02:00] your sex life these days?

[00:02:03] Jamie Love: What is my sex life these days? So I have a really cool job as a sex educator, so I put on parties and, those can include sex and other things. So what my sex life looks like these days is I'm actually been able to go between different cities, and I have lovership in different places now.

[00:02:21] So I'm part of Sex Positive World, so I'm in Portland, and I have lovers here. But I've also been going down to LA a lot recently, um, which is where I'm originally from. Well, not LA, just above it in Ventura County. And I just, uh, was down there last month for an event called Starlight with our Los Angeles chapter, and this was at Joshua Tree.

[00:02:43] There was an outdoor bed that we could be naked on the property. We did workshops together. Um, there was a big old hot tub. So, like, the very first night, I was part of a primal play class. The person I was teaching with was, like, giving me the eyes all night like, "I'm gonna [00:03:00] get you." And it was really fun 'cause we got to teach a class, and I got chewed up and shucked my booty for the whole class.

[00:03:08] And later in the night, we found our way back to the play area and, um, another friend of mine, uh, was in there playing with, two other folks. So there's a threesome happening, and we show up and we're like, "Hey, is there space for us, too?" So just lots of group play recently for me 'cause we got to go in there and have, like, a late night romp 'cause we had other people trying to sleep in our bedroom. So we had an audience and they, uh, applauded for us with their orgasms.

[00:03:36] Um, and then coming back up to Portland, I've really been enjoying going out to our local swingers club, over at TVR. And just this last weekend we actually went up to Seattle for Beltane, which is the first weekend of May, and put on a sexy party.

[00:03:53] So we, do things like there's, like, a maypole dance and we set a bonfire and do those pieces. But we also [00:04:00] had a human buffet, which if you've never had people eat food off of you, and I'm not talking about with fingers or with, like, chopsticks, I mean, like, putting their mouth on your body to get the food off.

[00:04:10] It's now one of my favorite kinks. Um, I got to be a sushi table. If you look up my fetlife you'll see a picture. I highly, highly recommend it I also was part of our one-minute wonder tables, which is, like, we have massage tables set up, and there's a couple of us who give you whatever you want for one minute.

[00:04:27] And then you take your hands away and go, "And what would you like now?" Which is a really great exercise in, like, learning to, ask for what you want, and then for as the person giving, like, what you're willing to give. So I got to give some really, like, titillating touch, and, um, at the end of the night, go into the back room, 'cause it's...

[00:04:44] We had, like, the front was, like, be sexy but not sex, and if you wanna go have the sex, you go to the back of the house. Got to go back there with another lover of mine and go play while there are other folks across the room from us. So my sex life feels like I'm in all these group play settings [00:05:00] recently.

[00:05:01] Yeah. 

[00:05:02] Gwyn Isaacs: That's super fun. 

[00:05:05] Jamie Love: Yeah. Yeah, it's fun to have lots of sexy friends who are poly and open, and to have play spaces available at these parties where you can kinda locate yourself with other people who are into that so you know, like, you're not disturbing anybody, which lets me feel, like, my anxiety come down so that I could actually, like, be expressive and, you know, applaud for the people across the room from me about all the lovely sex they're having.

[00:05:30] Gwyn Isaacs: Yeah. That's fantastic. Would you identify as an exhibitionist before these sorts of things? 

[00:05:39] Jamie Love: Uh, yeah, I found the sex-positive community, like nine years ago, and exhibition was part of it. I've kinda like waxed and waned over time, right? So like for a while it was like just the kink stuff, which wasn't sex.

[00:05:53] It was like we're just doing the kink stuff, like rope bondage has been a big part of my journey. Voyeurism is [00:06:00] definitely one I've identified with hard. Like I arrange massage nights and parties and big events. Like I'm one of the producers of Polytopia and Convergence, which are big events, like big sexy spaces.

[00:06:13] so I've had moments where like I am more private. With some partners I'm more private, so it- it's definitely pick and choose about when and where. And recently there's just been a lot more exhibition, and then I like match partners, right? So I've had partners that have been more into exhibition lately.

[00:06:30] Gwyn Isaacs: That's super cool. Yeah. I love that. And yeah, I find that exhibitionism and voyeurism are... I mean, they are two sides of the same coin, but like of us identify with both. If we identify with one, we frequently identify with the other. 

[00:06:44] Jamie Love: Yeah.

[00:06:44] Gwyn Isaacs: how would you define your relationships? With sexy times, your relationships that also include sexy times. I imagine there's a few different ways 

[00:06:55] Jamie Love: Um, most of my relationships, like I consider us all [00:07:00] free agents, so even using the word partner with my most intimate relationships doesn't look like how other people use the word partner.

[00:07:07] I really love to let my lovers have lots of openness. So, um, for example, like when I was in LA, I saw one of my lovers that's down there, and like we, we just play when we're together. Um, we went and got dinner this time, got to know each other a little bit better, um, and ran into each other at a party, uh, that was happening down at Alfheim in Los Angeles.

[00:07:29] If you're not familiar, th- they're a really great party. Shout out to Alfheim., And they had a lovely sexy play space set up, but they also had in the very back of their space, 'cause there's like this huge outdoor area, um, a bouncy castle. And two of my lovers ended up kind of wrestling with each other, and then we all went back to the sexy play space together.

[00:07:49] That's kinda how I describe it. A very much a free agent. Um, one of my partners has recently moved in with me, and we're still like very keeping a lot of independence, but like [00:08:00] figuring out where we work together.

[00:08:02] But it's really nice 'cause I get to be really open about who I am, like as a sex educator, as somebody who is involved in sex positive organizations. And I have my leather flag up behind me 'cause I just joined the Portland Leather Alliance as their newest board member who put on Kink Fest.

[00:08:17] Yeah. What's nice about that is that folks are very open to it and in that communication. So I consider myself a polyamorous slut, and then just open. I kinda say like I'm a cat. Like when I'm with my people, like I'm rubbing up on them and I love it, and then when I'm done there I go find my other people or go get a snack or whatever.

[00:08:35] Gwyn Isaacs: That's amazing. I love that definition of a cat. That makes so much sense. Yeah. I, I put 

[00:08:40] Jamie Love: on my tiger print. Oh, look at that. That's so good. 

[00:08:43] Gwyn Isaacs: Well, 

[00:08:45] Jamie Love: one of the events that I do with Lady V, who's another educator who puts on just so many amazing classes, is we do a, a thing called Bite Club, like bite club, and it's a pet play-themed wrestling night.

[00:08:58] Um, and for the first [00:09:00] half of the night I'll run a petting zoo, so that's like platonic space for people to get into pet play. Like, people will throw the ball around or cuddle on the beds, and then they'll come out for the wrestling half of the night with Lady V for the big show. Um, and that's where I've also gotten eaten up in the primal play classes that tend to happen around that. So yes, very much a cat and owning it. 

[00:09:21] Gwyn Isaacs: So would you say that you have regular lovers that you go back to frequently, or you also mentioned swinging, which is why I'm asking to sort of parse this out a little bit 

[00:09:33] Jamie Love: Yeah. I've had a long history of meeting people for one-night stands off of like Craigslist-style posting places, 'cause of course Casual Encounters isn't around anymore, but all of its little grandchildren exist now.

[00:09:47] Um, so there's been a lot of one-night stands. But I'd say right now, I have a lot of people that I've played with before that I've gone back to. Um, also just like from a safety standpoint, I find it's a little safer to be [00:10:00] within more of a network of folks that you already know, you have good communication with, you know, they get tested regularly for STIs.

[00:10:07] I've more like a collection of loverships, and one of the things for me is to be really clear with people about, um, like if you're familiar with STARS, which is like a model for how you talk about a safer sex talk that Dr. Emily Decker has, uh, maketimeforthetalk.com, that, uh, it's really important for me to communicate that I am a free agent.

[00:10:28] I don't have expectations around relationship, and if we like each other, let's do hang out. But like It's not, this network of if we play together we must be in a relationship and it has to work a certain kind of way. So I've learned to say no to folks who are looking for a relationship or are not sure. Or play in group settings, like at a party. 

[00:10:48] Gwyn Isaacs: And you mentioned that one of your lovers has m- recently moved in, but it sounds like you are not calling them a nesting partner. Is that true? 

[00:10:57] Jamie Love: Um, so we are in [00:11:00] a DDLG dynamic. Okay. So my daddy has moved in. I would say my most intimate relationships fall more to like family, um, dynamics, where it's more like this is my family as opposed to this is my romantic partner.

[00:11:15] 'Cause I tend to have a script in my mind about what it means when someone's a romantic partner, but family feels like it, it fits a little better. 

[00:11:24] Gwyn Isaacs: Will you break that down for us? I love that, by the way, that you are... First of all, I love everything about you. Thank you. But also that you are so, like, aware, and I know that it's in part because you teach this, and you think about it, and you're performing it.

[00:11:37] Mm-hmm. Not performing like I'm performing, but like- Yeah ... demonstrating for folks all the time, so I know how self-aware you are. So can you break that down for us a little bit? The romantic versus the family? 

[00:11:52] Jamie Love: Mm-hmm. so I was raised in a conservative Christian household, and I am the youngest of five [00:12:00] girls.

[00:12:00] So I was raised with kind of two minds about how the world works. I had the traditional idea of like, "You will be in a heterosexual dynamic. You will be married, and the purpose of marriage is to make kids and to live that life." And it never felt like a thing I wanted, but I was told one day I would grow up and be a real grown-up, and I would want those things.

[00:12:24] And I made it to 30, and I'm gonna turn 40 this year. I made it to 30 and realized maybe those people didn't know what they were talking about Uh, so there's been a lot of like deconstructing this like, I was also raised on Disney films, and I mentioned my sisters because they introduced feminist ideas and sex positive ideas to me, and things about empowerment that were just not part of my school/church life, uh, that was being fed to me.

[00:12:51] So they gave me a different story. So as I tried to kind of merge those two together, I realized that like, that one [00:13:00] person who's gonna do all of the things and be the Prince Charming, 'cause that's what I was raised with, uh, was not fair to either of us. I didn't like who I was when I was that person.

[00:13:13] Like, I have a lot of, um, stories I tell myself about what it means to be a girlfriend or what it means to be heading towards being someone's wife. I've yet to be married yet. I'm feeling good about that. I've never really had a desire to raise my own kids. I really love, uh, helping adults though.

[00:13:33] I really love helping people find their sensuality. So in my 30s, I really found my ways to make peace with that, like through meditation, through movement practices, through going to classes. Um, I think that educators like, um, Reid Mihalko, who has a class called, uh, Date Your Species, and that really brought some things into alignment with me about what relationships to say no to, because I was breaking hearts.

[00:13:59] Those people [00:14:00] were like, "I feel an attachment towards you, and I want something more monogamous." And I'd go, "Oh, I didn't ever want that." Like, or I'll want to make them happy 'cause I'm a people pleaser. And being able to really like radically like own those parts of myself, um, I don't say I'm a recovering people pleaser, I just say that's my nature.

[00:14:21] I am also a caregiver in relationships, and there's a lot of, uh, definitions of that being somewhat toxic or don't be the enabler And, uh, that I do struggle with. But being able to be really open with that has let me move from, this must be a romantic dynamic and it needs to fit a certain model or kind of the monogamous polyamory that happens where people are with their partner and then they add a third and it's very much like monogamy 2.0 but with three people.

[00:14:52] And that seems really cool. It's also not for me. So, um, like one of my primary relationships, someone who's family with me, is Lady [00:15:00] V. And she is moving to California next month, which is where I'm from. So that just means we'll now have a satellite relationship. It's more reasons to go back and forth, and there's other folks that I know there.

[00:15:11] While if we were in a traditional dynamic, if we were, like, doing that l- like let's make it all romantic all the time, which is not our dynamic that could be really heartbreaking.

[00:15:22] So I think that there's something to thinking about, like, what is the purpose of this relationship? Like my partner, my daddy, who just is, uh, living with me right now, like we, we nest really well together.

[00:15:33] And we haven't decided if it's permanent or not. It's kind of like we're trying it out, see if fits. So, uh, it's not for everybody. I'm gonna say that. It's not easy. It's a very different way of living. It's why I mention, like, I don't have kids, I travel a lot, and this is my full-time life.

[00:15:51] And I've really radically, um, accepted how very different that is from how other people live their lives. And I have a lot of respect for it, and it's taught [00:16:00] me, like, how to talk to other people about, like, pulling apart, like, where is it the sex? Where is it the emotional intimacy? Where is it I have a hobby I can't express?

[00:16:10] Like where do you fit in relationships with each other as they move and shift over time? And just so much respect for people who stick with one or two partners for a really long period of time, 'cause that seems like so much effort to put into folks. 'Cause I, just interact with a lot of people because of what I do.

[00:16:31] Gwyn Isaacs: I mean- every way of doing things can feel like, wow, that's amazing that you do that, right? From somebody else's perspective. So let's just give props to that, that you are comfortable and capable of having all of these relationships, short, long, intimate, not terribly intimate, momentary, all the things, and that you are taking care of yourself is fucking cool.

[00:16:58] And not [00:17:00] everybody's built for that. Just like not everybody's built for long-term relationships, mono or poly or other. So like, yeah, like that you know what works for you is amazing. 

[00:17:11] Jamie Love: Yeah. I made a choice, and actually AI was part of what prompted this with, um, folks who are getting like AI relationships, is I was just like, " I want the real thing, warts and all."

[00:17:23] Like, I want to stick with people. I don't wanna lose them just 'cause it's challenging or because, in my case, like I have lovers who have mental health disorders. So like, if we're in the middle of mania week and we're not sleeping this week, that, that's part of lovership with me, is, sticking with people or letting them know, like, you're too much.

[00:17:42] I need you to go away." and knowing that there's still love and reciprocity there. And, it's not for everybody because loving people who have more mental health stuff going on is really challenging also.

[00:17:56] Gwyn Isaacs: Yeah. Maybe this isn't important, but [00:18:00] how many, like quantifiably, like an actual number range, doesn't have to be specific, but a range, of like regular lovers do you have? I mean like repeat, not the one-offs. 

[00:18:15] Jamie Love: Over how much of a timeline? 

[00:18:17] Gwyn Isaacs: Right now. Just right now.

[00:18:20] Jamie Love: Probably like six? 

[00:18:23] Gwyn Isaacs: Cool. 

[00:18:24] Jamie Love: And- I have to say a number so if anyone, if watches this and feels forgotten- ... I'll be like, "No, no, you were one of the six." 

[00:18:31] Gwyn Isaacs: Okay, six to nine, 'cause I like threes. 

[00:18:35] Jamie Love: Six to nine. Yes. 

[00:18:38] Gwyn Isaacs: Oh, God. Also six to nine. Oh, how punny. 

[00:18:43] Jamie Love: Yeah. 

[00:18:43] Gwyn Isaacs: Um, unintentionally punny at that. 

[00:18:46] Jamie Love: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:47] Gwyn Isaacs: And not all of them live near you, is that correct? 

[00:18:51] Jamie Love: Yeah, right. 

[00:18:52] Gwyn Isaacs: Okay. So like some are in far-flung places. And for those folks that are in far-flung [00:19:00] places, is it like when you get together it's amazing, and when you're not that's fine? Or is it like, "Oh, we need to strategize a way to see each other again soon"?

[00:19:10] Jamie Love: No, when we're apart, we're apart. We're together, we're together. It's, um, yeah, pretty hands-off. Uh, we do plan, though. Like, I've, particularly days I'm gonna be in, in California coming up, and I've texted to be like, "What are you doing during these days?" Right. So a little bit of planning, but there's not a lot of, um, "Oh my God, I need you to be here."

[00:19:28] It's like, um, "I miss you" doesn't come with guilt when I say it. It's more like I'm excited for the next time I see you, like, and building that anticipation. Like, anticipation is one of my favorite things to feel. 

[00:19:41] Gwyn Isaacs: I love that. I love that so much. The art of the tease is really lost in so many ways. I mean, burlesque, right, is literally the art of the tease.

[00:19:54] But, like, it's so helpful in so many other places, so that you're [00:20:00] including it into a thing that you're acknowledging and like, "Yeah, that's one of my favorite things," that's cool. I dig it. 

[00:20:05] Jamie Love: Yeah. Yeah. It's nice also when you have, uh, lovers and partners that, um, enjoy that you have other lovers and partners, which is not everybody's speed.

[00:20:18] Right. Because then if I've put on a cute outfit and all that, like, I can send photos and descriptions, and then this hap- then this happens. 

[00:20:27] Gwyn Isaacs: I love 

[00:20:27] Jamie Love: that. So, compersion. 

[00:20:29] Gwyn Isaacs: Yeah. Yeah. Compersion is fantastic. 

[00:20:33] Jamie Love: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:34] Gwyn Isaacs: I love it so much. Yeah. Also, from, like, a low energy standpoint, I fucking love compersion. Mm-hmm.

[00:20:44] Yeah, 

[00:20:44] Jamie Love: I'm like, is it voyeurism or is it compersion?

[00:20:47] Gwyn Isaacs: Yes. Yeah. Oh, that's so good. Okay, uh, so you love group things. You are an exhibitionist. You love voyeurism. You love having [00:21:00] different people that you can have lovely intimate relationships with. You love having one-offs. What are some of your favorite activities? 

[00:21:09] Jamie Love: Over the pandemic I kind of lost touch with my love of a lot of kinky things. I didn't have much of a yum for, the spicier side of sensation. I had kinda lost that. And recently I was part of a flog lab class, and it was like, "Oh yeah, flogging is kinda great," now that I've had those other intimacy needs met.

[00:21:33] So that's something newer that I've added. Um, the feral play has been really fun too, and I mean a little bit of, like, wrestling and biting and I'm-gonna-get-you energy. Um, if you haven't played with primal play, you should play with some primal play. It's worth it. And then, um, There's a lot of DDLG, just, like, dirty talk in a lot of my dynamics also.

[00:21:57] Gwyn Isaacs: Dirty talk is so good and is so [00:22:00] often overlooked as an activity. Like, people don't think of it- Yeah ... as a thing, but it's totally a thing. 

[00:22:08] Jamie Love: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. 

[00:22:10] Gwyn Isaacs: Talk to us more about primal play, 'cause I bet a lot of people have no idea what you're talking about. 

[00:22:14] Jamie Love: I'm gonna give an example. Uh, so primal play for one is if you're in your animal persona, and I'm not talking about getting a full furry suit and being a furry. Like, that is a fetish all into itself. It's somewhat related, but this is more about, um, if you're being a cat or a dog, for example, being like big ones, um, what if you put on that persona and approached your lover with it?

[00:22:39] So, um, for my class, for example, there was, like, hair pulling and growling and a lot of I'm-gonna-get-you type energy. So you can also think of, like, when you're kids playing tag. It has l- some similar vibes to that. So it's very childish and very playful, and then can involve things like play wrestling. A [00:23:00] lot of what I do for my work that's good for me also is just teaching people how to play again, and we don't really get physical with our play with other adults.

[00:23:08] So the idea of doing that more as, like, even clothes-on wrestling can just be really, really hot and release a lot of endorphins, and you don't even h- have to be having, you know, a risky, you know, kind of encounter with each other. I mean risky via STIs. Um, we also had at Convergence, so Sex Positive World puts on this big campout every year in the summertime.

[00:23:31] It's in August this year. And we had some folks who offered a primal hunt as part of our event. So this was one of the events that happened on a Saturday. Like, there were lots of other big sexy events happening- Um, the folks who facilitated it, like we talked about what plants were on the land that we should be aware of, 'cause there's like some stinging nettles for example.

[00:23:52] They brought clothes that they had cut a little bit so you could put it over your clothes so when you were caught they could grab and rip. Uh, which [00:24:00] having your clothes ripped off of you, what a strange sensation that we don't experience every day. And to have your lover coming after you with like that kind of desire.

[00:24:08] Like that's what I'm getting at with feral and primal play. Like you don't have to go that far, but giving kind of a buffet of options. Um, so we had folks who were informed about like where they could go and where they could be naked and doing the play, 'cause there were certain spots that were like a-okay and certain spots where folks were like, "No thank you.

[00:24:27] I'd rather not see that." Um, so some folks, you know, ran and hid. There was a lot of chasing, um, and folks being taken away to be ravaged once they were caught. So when I'm talking about feral play that's what I'm talking about. This kind of like I'm gonna take something and somebody you know, it might be like a lot of resistance or maybe you really like being caught and overpowered.

[00:24:49] That's also very valid. 

[00:24:52] Gwyn Isaacs: I think like 75% of women, uh, identify with rape fantasies, which is a ravaging [00:25:00] fantasy. Um, I don't know anybody who actually wants that in real life, but ravaging fantasies, hells yeah. Right? Having your clothes ripped off, yeah, who doesn't wanna be wanted that much that they're- 

[00:25:12] Jamie Love: Well, and also like consensual non-consent. Like if you've, uh, negotiated in advance like I watching two lovers of mine wrestle is, you know, one of them's just like, you know, "Do you want to?" is the question. And the other one goes, "Don't make me say it." But no does not mean red, which in kink world, you know, using the stoplight system red being the stop the scene right now.

[00:25:35] So they, they are asking for consensual non-consent in the moment and they're both looking at me like, "Is this, can I trust this?" And I'm like- So it, it's interesting to be the cheerleader for other folks to be able to play with that too. 

[00:25:47] Gwyn Isaacs: I love that. That's so 

[00:25:48] Jamie Love: good. So it's the negotiated, it's knowing people, it's checking in.

[00:25:51] And with kink, it's like you, you negotiate before you do the scene. You do not escalate during the scene outside of what you initially [00:26:00] talked about. And then you check in after, like, "How was that for you?" And that lets you have that trust and permission to keep playing with that energy, and you can take it deeper and be more specific and really connect with people.

[00:26:13] Because it's not about now I get to do whatever I want. It's about two people connecting. And if they're in their animal personas, how do we connect when we're those people? Because how I connect with my lovers is not the same as how they connect with their other lovers. 

[00:26:28] Gwyn Isaacs: Right. One would hope that everybody is aware that people are slightly different around each other, because we're feeding off our energies.

[00:26:37] Jamie Love: Yeah. 

[00:26:37] Gwyn Isaacs: I also wanna mention- We do ... because you said play and adult play, and it's so important that we are playful, and whimsical is the word of the year apparently. I have a guide for how to approach kink in a safe way with somebody that you're already comfortable with. And on the cover of it, I have the quote from Midori about [00:27:00] kink being play for adults with cooler toys. 

[00:27:03] Jamie Love: Yeah. Yeah. Midori has some really great stuff. It's- 

[00:27:06] Gwyn Isaacs: Oh, she's fantastic. Okay. So you've got a whole bunch of lovers that you've enjoy. You also enjoy going to swingers spaces. How fucking cool that there's an actual space for you to go to to do that. 

[00:27:21] Jamie Love: Yeah. Um, Portland is a very sex-positive city. Um, we have three different clubs that regularly host parties and have play spaces and just feel really safe and nice.

[00:27:33] Um, and then we also have a lot of places where people go for quick and dirty play, is how I'll put it. So it's been really nice to be able to explore that, 'cause not every city has it. Um, and also here in Portland, there's a very big LGBTQ+ community. So finding events with lots of other QT people is pretty accessible.

[00:27:52] Um, like going to a party in Los Angeles, for example, a little bit more heteronormative. Um, and it's a different vibe. So it's been [00:28:00] really nice to be in Portland, which I've lived here, like, three and a half years, and explore that scene with, uh, the people of Portland. 

[00:28:09] Gwyn Isaacs: I know, and that's probably why I completely forgot, but you identify as queer?

[00:28:15] What language do you- Yeah ... identify for who you're attracted to? Yeah. 

[00:28:19] Jamie Love: Yeah. pansexual or bisexual. 

[00:28:23] Gwyn Isaacs: Okay. 

[00:28:23] Jamie Love: Yeah. 

[00:28:25] Gwyn Isaacs: Should've done that at the beginning, but that's okay. It's all good. 

[00:28:29] Jamie Love: Other episodes. Go watch the other episodes for all that. 

[00:28:31] Gwyn Isaacs: Yeah, that's right.

[00:28:34] What brings you the most joy in your sexy playtime? I mean, like, overall. Like, you don't need to get, like, super specific, but, like, is there a thing that you find yourself just gravitating towards again and again and again 'cause you're like, "I love this so much"? 

[00:28:53] Jamie Love: I'm a very sensual person. Uh, despite all of my experience, I tend to [00:29:00] prefer edging and sensations. Uh, so, uh, people who wanna make everything really extreme or try and get a fist in that thing, I'm not your girl for that. Uh, I continue to go back towards sensuality. I think that's why I like the big/little dynamics and probably the pet play as much as I do.because there is a lot more, like, nuzzling and sweet touch and inclination towards indulgence.

[00:29:27] Um, just this weekend I went with a sweetie of mine to, um, a tantra event where, like, we were feeding each other and doing sensual touch and rubbing roses on each other's bodies, and that is way more my zip code than anything else.

[00:29:42] Like, I mentioned, um, trying flogging again for the first time in a long time. It was not hitting as hard as you can to get to subspace. It was far more sensual, that was accentuated by those little sparks of, like, more painful play. [00:30:00] But really, it was more like massage, more like, um, a rhythm. So sensuality is really what I'm drawn towards over and over again. 

[00:30:11] Gwyn Isaacs: That's lovely. Yeah. I really love that. I'm so glad I asked that. 'Cause I don't know that people would've gotten that with all of the talk of primal play- Well- ... and the biting and the, you know. 

[00:30:21] Jamie Love: Well, and like, that's different flavors, too, right? Like, there's something about, like, the anticipation, but then there's also, like, sniffing and nibbling and the lighter sensations.

[00:30:31] Like, bites leave marks. You know, all the little nibbles and everything else, that doesn't leave a permanent mark for later, and, that's more recent, and with one lover in particular that, that, more of that happens. 

[00:30:43] Gwyn Isaacs: And over time, have you found yourself being drawn towards or away different things? Like, do you find yourself going through seasons of wanting things more and less? 

[00:30:55] Jamie Love: Oh, yeah, definitely. I'm really fortunate, and then also, like, I've put myself in a [00:31:00] position to meet all of these folks. So you know, I'm in this world of meeting other people who are sex positive, who are polyamorous, and then open to play, and then I go to events to meet people for that.

[00:31:13] Um, I've also been through seasons where I, you know, lost a primary partner, and I really didn't wanna play. And, like, um, I'm also a cuddle coach, so I, put on cuddle parties- And like that was the spot I really wanted to be at with people. Like, um, going towards sexuality, towards orgasm-seeking type sex, you know, like for a while was just like, "Meh, I don't know that that's where I'm at right now," which was really, really weird, 'cause I've had a life of, uh, like just lots of lovership.

[00:31:42] And then like the pandemic and the lockdown that we all went through, that's where I lost a taste for a lot of BDSM play, and then now years later I'm like, "Oh, maybe I do want this." Um, or being pansexual or bisexual, which I've kinda [00:32:00] interchanged them since I've gotten to know our local group, the Bi Brigade, and a lot more history around bisexuality and erasure of that.

[00:32:08] Um, but like sometimes it's like I feel like I'm more on the hetero end of the world, and sometimes I feel like I'm more on like the queer side where, you know, the lovers that you're with start to define like what you're into at the time, or at least for me it does. So that's definitely changed over time.

[00:32:24] Or I also facilitate. So I facilitate massage events and sexy parties, and after losing that primary relationship I started to get really exhausted doing it, because I was not playing with the people coming to my parties.

[00:32:38] So I have like an ethics line. I'll meet people at a club and play. I'll meet people online or at a bar and play, but if I'm the one teaching, if I'm the one facilitating and holding space, unless I have known you for a very long time and I've shared these spaces before, I don't consider it safe or ethical to play with that person in a sexy way.

[00:32:58] I might do the sensual [00:33:00] stuff, but I won't go all the way to the sex stuff. So, um, when you are facilitating a lot but your personal needs are not necessarily being met or you're not sure what your needs are right now, like that can build resentment and strangeness. So I've had seasons of like, you know, I only have the one partner and we only play a little bit, or, uh, you know, now I'm just like really, really into bondage, and bondage is my thing.

[00:33:24] Like rope bondage was my thing for a good long while, and it's, you know, waxed and waned over time, and it seems like it's back on the upswing, so there's more kink in my life. Yeah, I think that's very, very normal. 

[00:33:36] Gwyn Isaacs: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, which is part of why I asked. That's... Uh, how do you take care of yourself? You briefly mentioned the, um, STI thing. I'm not talking about that. That's important. We should have these conversations.

[00:33:54] But I'm talking about how do you take care of yourself emotionally? Like how do you make sure that you get [00:34:00] the time or the space or whatever it is that you need to be able to meet your lovers in these places where you actually are fully there with them?

[00:34:10] Jamie Love: I have had many, many seasons of life where I have failed at taking care of myself. Where I've overgiven and been resentful and really tired and exhausted. So first off, I wanna say, like, that's there, too. Um, one is making sure that, like, I have space and time for friends and for that platonic connection.

[00:34:34] Um, we have a lot of poly discussion groups or book clubs, and I've been involved with a lot of those over time. So, um, I lost a friend of mine, a lover of mine, a co-creator of mine. His name's Josh. And I get s- waves of grief with that. And it's very strange because the last time I was hit with a major wave of grief was at a swingers club.

[00:34:58] Gwyn Isaacs: Mm. 

[00:34:58] Jamie Love: And I'm, like, sitting there [00:35:00] having, like, all the feels, and I'm like, "I don't wanna ruin this 'cause these two are having a great time, and then we're all together." And, you know, that's my internal dialogue, for one, telling me that I'm gonna ruin it if I talk about my grief. But I went to our Poly Is As Poly Does discussion group to talk about it with other people and get insight.

[00:35:19] There's something really beautiful to witnessing each other's heartbreaks, each other's wins, um, seeing communities grow and change over time, people do their repair work. Like, that human connection, I think, is just so important. So showing up for community and keeping the platonic connections together and really being able to talk to people about, like, "This is really heavy on me right now, and I just need other people to know what I'm going through," which then in turn means people check on me.

[00:35:50] Like, I mentioned, um, my best friend, Lady V, is moving to another state. A lot of people in my community have asked me unprompted, [00:36:00] "How are you doing with that, Jamie? How are you doing with the fact that your best friend is moving?" Which is giving me a lot of space to work through my feelings. I was like, "I was a little angry about it.

[00:36:10] Uh, I was a little sad about it. I was a little this way. I was a little that way, um, maybe a lot one way." Um, so having community, people who are friends, people I see in those spaces often where we check in with each other about what's going on. Um, and then for two, like, making space for our mindfulness practices. I'm big into, like, meditation and yoga.

[00:36:32] And, um, like, things like cuddle events that let you co-regulate with people I think are also really beautiful. So I look for a lot of self-regulation and co-regulation time, which thankfully I have a lot of space for also. Yeah. 

[00:36:48] Gwyn Isaacs: And it sounds like you know how to prioritize it, for the most part. I mean, we all make mistakes, but 

[00:36:53] Jamie Love: Yeah. Well, I've put myself in an interesting position. If I do not take care of [00:37:00] myself, if I show up to an event, um, for example, I hosted a cuddle event this weekend. If I hadn't taken the steps to take care of myself, it would've been damn near impossible to take care of everybody else through that experience.

[00:37:15] Like, there's a lot of responsibility in holding space for that for other people. So the self-care is a big part of the community care for me. So it's this back and forth where when I'm not taking care of myself, and then I also just mentioned all that co-regulation, people notice. And they don't notice and get angry or ask, "Wait, why didn't you do this thing?"

[00:37:35] They notice and they go, "Do you need help?" Like, it, like, there's a lot of, like, care that goes back and forth. So I've learned to prioritize it 'cause I've put myself in a position where I have to prioritize it. 'Cause I get into work mode and I go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And then I'm like, "Oh, it's midnight and I haven't eaten anything, and I've been working on this project all day, and I'm frustrated."

[00:37:57] So it's good to have those people to co-regulate and [00:38:00] remind each other, like, "We can go a little slower. It's okay." 

[00:38:04] Gwyn Isaacs: Yeah. 

[00:38:04] Jamie Love: Although sometimes it's fun to go really fast. When you get in crunch mode before you have a big, uh, get together, and get all the things printed, and in the car, and did we get this and that?

[00:38:16] Who's moving the mattresses?

[00:38:21] Gwyn Isaacs: That might be the episode title, Who's Moving The Mattresses? 

[00:38:24] Jamie Love: I've gotten really good at building pillow forts. 

[00:38:28] Gwyn Isaacs: Oh, that's so good.

[00:38:32] Oh, that's so good. Um, I was gonna ask, like, tell us something that you would find s- that most people would find surprising. I think you might have just done that. 

[00:38:47] Jamie Love: Well, it's part of, uh, part of putting on cuddle events. You have to get all of it laid out nice and fluffy for everybody, and I'd say, ah, it's, we're building pillow forts. Side effect of the job. 

[00:38:57] Gwyn Isaacs: That's so good. [00:39:00] Okay. Um, is there anything that you wanna make sure that we talk about? 

[00:39:06] Jamie Love: Um, I've mentioned a few really cool, sexy events on this, and I think that I just really explicitly wanna say, like, if any of this has titillated you, the listener, um, a lot of these events are open to the public.

[00:39:20] Um, convergence that we do... Let me pause here. So I'm involved with a few nonprofits, but biggest one that I've been involved with for a long time is Sex Positive World, and what we do is education and then in-person events that happen at our local chapters. Um, the education includes two online classes every month that we put on, and then we bring in sex educators to come speak and do classes with us.

[00:39:44] Like, we just had a class all about blowjobs. We also have one that's coming up that's on, uh, genital herpes and herpes stigma. So they kinda run the gamut of, like, skills, communication skills, all that. But the four classes that we offer [00:40:00] every other month, as in two, two, they go back and forth, one is an orientation to Sex Positive World where we talk about our level system, history of sex positivity, um- Level system sounds funky.

[00:40:12] It's just how we define what happens in a space. Like a cuddle is not an orgy, an orgy's not a cuddle. Um, we talk about our local chapters and how things work, um, how we take care of each other and do consent in our spaces. We have a class on boundaries, which is my favorite class. I have been teaching it for, like, six years repeatedly.

[00:40:30] It is a gut check every time because I'm a people pleaser. Um, the boundaries class, we talk about our culture of, you know, people pleasing or bulldozing, the ways that our boundaries get crossed all the time, and then we actually start building the muscle of being able to speak up for ourselves and have a little bit better check-ins with each other.

[00:40:49] We actually do exercises for that. So that's Orientation, Awesome Boundaries. Um, The Pleasure Talk, which is our safer sex talk. I mentioned STARS earlier. That's another [00:41:00] great model for how to have a safer sex talk. Um, this is our version 'cause that one's Dr. Evelyn's. Um, and we actually put people into breakout rooms so they can practice it with each other, like talking about, like, what we actually expect out of a sexy encounter.

[00:41:16] Like, I don't always expect to get to penetration. I don't always expect to get to an orgasm. Like, what makes this sexy and fun for us instead of just assuming what the other person wants, which is kinda just revolutionary 'cause people don't really talk about, like, what they want from an interaction. Um, and the last one I'm really proud of is our most recent class.

[00:41:37] It's called Sexy Intersections, and it's about identities, in particular when it comes to, um, race and colorism and ability, age, uh, all the phobias that we can carry, um, you know, transphobia as well, and how we can, in community, move with each other knowing that it's really challenging for some and not for others, and [00:42:00] sometimes we say or do things that really hurt people, and that is not sexy for the person who gets hurt.

[00:42:05] So how do we actually make room in the room that we can say, "Hey, that thing you said hurt. Can I give you an upgrade?" Instead of the, "I'm a terrible monster," or, "Ooh, that s- that person said something mean. I'm gonna leave And that lets us actually do the sexy events like here in Portland where I'm also part of our local chapter where we have cuddle events and massage nights. Um, we're gonna play with sensation play toys and candles this Friday at a workshop.

[00:42:35] Um, I just really wanna invite people to come check out our programming. It's all on a sliding scale. We'll scholarship you in if ... We don't want money to stop people from getting access to education. Um, and if you come to those classes, you'll also get invites to our in-person events like Convergence, our sexy campout that we do up in the state of Washington this August.

[00:42:55] Um, this September, our local group here is doing Polytopia, a [00:43:00] two-day conference all around polyamory. We have educators coming in to do two tracks of education, so for beginners, um, and then for, like, more advanced students. So, like, talking about legal agreements between a polyamorous group. Like, what about kids? What about property? What about retirement? What about medical proxy? Things that monogamous folks don't have to think about because it's built into monogamy.

[00:43:22] Um, but then also 101 stuff, like how do you deal with new dating and jealousy? The biggest polyamory topic, jealousy. Um, and we'll have a third track that's all social and connection. So we have people doing cuddles or speed dating or something that helps people connect and meet each other. Um, so that's Polytopia in September.

[00:43:43] And, um, if you're in the LA area, you should check out Sex Positive Los Angeles. My friend Lady V is moving to come bring cool parties to all of you. Um, and then also we'll have that Joshua Tree getaway coming up again in October, and we just really wanna have it be an open door for people [00:44:00] who are curious and open-minded and looking to go on their own journey.

[00:44:04] Because you don't owe anything. And what I mean by that is when you date somebody, you kinda, like, owe each other. You end up in this back-and-forth relationship. If you come to a massage night with one of our chapters, you leave and go home and get to process it however you want. The people that you are massaging it in the little pod with, that's just for the moment. So it's a really sweet space for, like, self-discovery in a safe way with others that doesn't come with strings attached.

[00:44:36] Or maybe you meet somebody in one of those pods and you really, really have a great connection, but you've met in a way that is very, like, low stakes. So I mostly wanted to say, like, I'm talking about some really cool, sexy things, and I want you to come join me The new organization that I just joined is called Portland Leather Alliance, or PLA. We put on online classes that are [00:45:00] by and large free for the public. So these are all around, um, BDSM skills, so you'll see, like, flogging classes. You also see consent and relationship workshops.

[00:45:09] There's one on legal agreements coming up, and our big event that happens every year is one of the biggest leather conferences in the United States. It's called Kink Fest, and it happens every year, uh, during Easter weekend. So those are my shameless promos and plugs that everyone should check out, Sex Positive World and PLA.

[00:45:28] Gwyn Isaacs: Yes. I concur. Absolutely, please go check them out. Um, and of course all the- Yeah ... information will be in the notes and what have you. 

[00:45:37] Jamie Love: Sweet. 

[00:45:38] Gwyn Isaacs: Um, you know the last question, right? Jamie Love, what excites you? 

[00:45:46] Jamie Love: What excites me right now is being out in nature and in the sunshine, and being able to be naked, because I live in the Pacific Northwest, and it just got warm this week.

[00:45:59] [00:46:00] Um, and I think that sex outdoors is on the menu for the summer. You know, like, seasons, sometimes I'm just like, "Oof, too dirty." But I'm like, "You know, I think this summer is the summer for outsi- outdoor sex." We should all be ecosexuals. 

[00:46:15] Gwyn Isaacs: Yes. Big shout-out to Annie Sprinkle and Beth Stevens on that one. Oh, 

[00:46:19] Jamie Love: yeah.

[00:46:20] Gwyn Isaacs: , You're awesome. Thank you for signing up again.. 

[00:46:22] Jamie Love: Thanks for having me.

[00:46:23] 

[00:46:24] Gwyn Isaacs: Was there one thing that Jamie mentioned that she's enjoyed recently that made you go, "Ooh, I'd like to try that"? Maybe being a sushi table, maybe a light flogging, say, with a fur flogger

[00:46:40] I think if I took one thing away, it would be explore the multi dimensions that we all carry because we are all extremely nuanced people and there's so many different things to try. Please go find Jamie Love, sexpositiveworld.org Please also come find me [00:47:00] at whatexcitesus.com. Thanks for listening.

[00:47:03] You're awesome. You really are