What Excites Us!

Episode 72: Stop Editing Yourself with Elize Simon

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Transcript:

[00:00:00] Gwyn: Here's a hot take from a relationship coach, not everybody needs to be in one. I know, right?

[00:00:06] My guest, Elise Simon, a professional permission granter, is someone who will be genuinely honest with you and tell you that not everybody is meant to be in long-term relationships, and so many people are for terrible reasons. We also talk about flirting, handling heartbreak, why the dating bar is currently set in hell, and how to deal with it if you find yourself on one of those dates.

[00:00:31] Welcome to What Excites Us, I'm Gwyn Isaacs. This episode is a replay from the Reclaiming Summit that I hold. This one came out last September. And if these types of topics are interesting to you, you should be sure to subscribe or follow or however it is that you do that on whatever app it is that you are listening or watching, because you don't wanna miss any more of these.

[00:00:53] Let's get into it.

[00:00:59] Gwyn: Elize Simon is a relationship and communication coach, truth speaker, and heart holder who helps people create love that actually feels good. She blends mindfulness, emotional intelligence, sex education, positive psychology, and tantra guide you towards the relationship you crave. With Elize, you'll discover your own worthiness for wild love, develop deep self truths and what it means to be truly met in your relationships. can't wait for you to hear her insights on rewriting old patterns, finding pleasure even after heartbreak, and how to attract the kind of love that lights you up. Elize, welcome. I'm so excited that you came on The Reclaiming You Summit with me

[00:01:47] Elize: Thank you. I am so happy to be here and I, I am so turned on by my own bio,

[00:01:54] Gwyn: isn't.

[00:01:55] Elize: what a pleasure it is to get to be me and do all those things.

[00:01:59] Gwyn: Yeah. I totally agree with that. How, let's just start with the really basics. How did you get here?

[00:02:06] Elize: Yeah. Thank you. That is kind of my question honestly. The best answer that I can give is all of the best things in my life happen kind of by mistake. So, uh, I am born and raised in Brooklyn, fell in love with theater, was a stage hand on Broadway and other venues in New York for a long time, um, which gave me, I think, the training of understanding.

[00:02:34] Not just communication, my mom calls it translating English to English, hearing what one person is saying and what the other person is saying and seeing where they're not aligning their communication with each other so that it lands, you know, like have you ever watched a conversation happen and you're like, wow, he is talking about paint colors and she is talking about what they're having for dinner and they are just confusing each other every moment.

[00:03:00] I feel like that was one of the main things that I learned from a life working in theater is like, wow, people can miscommunicate in the most creative of ways. And like if I could just mediate in there for like 60 seconds and get everybody back on the same conversation, then they could move forward together rather than just missing each other and getting in a fight and creating so much drama and problem.

[00:03:25] So that was kind of what I was doing when there wasn't a frame around it. And then, around COVID, my theater work just canceled. Obviously. I lost, uh, 15 jobs in one day and so did everybody I know that was a really fun call with unemployment. And my therapist called me and said, what else have you ever wanted to do?

[00:03:51] And the only other thing I've ever been passionate about is sex education. And so she was like, great, you need to figure out how to do that because the world needs it so desperately and you are honestly amazing at it. So let's figure out what that looks like.

[00:04:07] And that basically meant figuring out the parts of sex education that really light me up and how to communicate in that way that I was describing, where we're keeping everybody on the same page and on the same train to get where we're going.

[00:04:22] And then adding in this piece of how do I help other people use the communication tools that are available to all of us to make relationships that feel amazing. And make dating feel as amazing as any incredible relationship already in your life. Like dating can feel like talking to your best friend from childhood if you make it so.

[00:04:46] Gwyn: Oh, we're gonna talk more about that in a little bit. But I wanna talk about the professional permission grantor. That is so cool. By the way,

[00:04:55] Elize: Yeah.

[00:04:57] Gwyn: how, unpack that for us. What does that mean in the context of love and relationships and communication? What does that mean for you personally? How does that come into your work?

[00:05:07] Elize: I think professional permission, granter, I mean, it's something that people have just said to me for decades that I am a permission slip and I feel so complimented by that statement. And in my work, probably what it looks like the most is, I mean, I work with a lot of people who are opening their relationships or wanting to figure out how to date someone in particular while still, uh, getting new experiences from the outside world who are wanting to sort of not...

[00:05:41] I think so many people experience relationship as a closing of their world, like an irising in of their experience. But I think so many of us feel happier in relationship when it's a tool that we use to iris open our universe.

[00:05:57] And so a lot of what I do is people come in and they tell me, oh, I, I want this thing and it's bad. And I'm like, how about we love that? You want that thing? How about we give you full permission, full send to be exactly who you are and then call into your world the people who want exactly who you are. Instead of creating a context where you're constantly trying to shave off your bumpy parts and kill off pieces of yourself in order to fit into a relationship or a relationship model or a connection that is not necessarily suited to who you are.

[00:06:32] Gwyn: That's so important. Yeah. And what a great way to look at the world is instead of closing, it could be opening

[00:06:42] Elize: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:43] Gwyn: and that just feels so poignant in so many ways. Um,

[00:06:46] Elize: Yeah.

[00:06:47] Gwyn: dating and relationships, but in every place of a person's life.

[00:06:52] Elize: I think our natural inclination, like when we are single and we imagine what relationship is gonna look like, we imagine like, oh, what if they have siblings and I love them and I get to, you know, go to Sephora with her, with the sister, and like imagining all these different doors getting to open through the person that we be with, that we choose, or the persons that we choose.

[00:07:18] And so often we experience the shutting down of parts of ourselves that trigger our partners or that we think are unattractive in relationship. You know, like, uh, in order to go on this date, I have to wear heels and makeup and do all these things to cover who I am so that I'm more palatable or more attractive, whatever for this person who I don't even know yet.

[00:07:44] Right? Like how often do we cover and conceal ourselves in order to win the approval of a person who you have no idea if you even like who they are or what their values are or where they're going in this life. It just makes me so sad, and so, so much of what I do is just cracking that open saying, what if all of you was amazing and ready to be loved?

[00:08:08] And all you have to do is peel back those layers and let the people who are ready to love you there in

[00:08:14] Gwyn: I imagine you get some pushback on that.

[00:08:17] Elize: People are very resistant to the idea that all of them is lovable and worthy,

[00:08:23] Gwyn: yeah.

[00:08:23] Elize: sad.

[00:08:24] Gwyn: Yeah. So what, what happens when you do get the pushback? How do you help people get over that hurdle?

[00:08:32] Elize: A big part of what I do is mirroring. Mirroring back the experience of the person that I'm talking to very often, like if you were to say to me, I'm a hideous beast, I'm an ogre and no one's ever gonna love me, and then I were to say that back to you, you'd be like, of course you are not. You're gorgeous. I'm like, cool. What did it feel like for you to receive that?

[00:08:56] I don't like to use the word negativity, but like that energy for me. Did you find it attractive the way I put myself down like that? Would you let your best friend say that to you? Would you let your daughter say that to you? Would you just let that slide? Would you agree with them? If they said that to you?

[00:09:16] Do you think that you're less deserving of love than your best friend and your daughter? So let's pause. I understand that you're using this coping mechanism, this self-deprecation for a reason. It's here because it's been valuable at some point in your life. I don't wanna cut off that part either, but I wanna take a step back, give a little perspective, and then be able to move forward and through with love.

[00:09:44] So it's a lot of slowing down and creating sort of aspects where you can see yourself from a new perspective. Usually just space and time are all that someone needs to see themselves in a new light.

[00:09:58] Gwyn: That's really lovely. We hear so many horror stories about dating so, so, so much. and I will say for the record, I am not an expert in dating at all, even little bit. I am a the stereotypical lesbian, bring me a U-Haul, been serially polyamorous, but in long-term relationships almost my entire life.

[00:10:24] So I don't know shit for dating. I am the worst. I barely know how to flirt. Like I can tell somebody I like their outfit. That's kind of where it ends for me.

[00:10:32] Elize: I love flirting. I love flirting.

[00:10:37] Gwyn: I love that. People love it. I think it's so mysterious and frightening.

[00:10:42] Elize: Well, I think flirting is completely misunderstood though. I went to a flirting, uh, party, I think they called it, and they described flirting as creating a space of ambiguity where you think I, where I'm giving you some indication that I'm interested and open and available and also like not just blowing that door wide open.

[00:11:03] And that's not how I think of flirting. I think of flirting. The way that babies flirt, flirting is me showing you the truth of my pleasure.

[00:11:12] Right? You're wearing a shirt, it looks soft. Your shirt looks so soft. Could I, could I touch it? Right? Like a baby would just put it in their mouth, right? The dog is just gonna stick their nose in your crotch.

[00:11:26] They're curious and they're in pleasure. At their curiosity. That's all flirting is. Is showing you what pleasure I'm already in.

[00:11:34] Gwyn: that's Wow. Okay. Thank you.

[00:11:38] Elize: When I say it like that, doesn't it make you wanna do it? Doesn't it make it sound way less scary? There's a Regena Thomashauer quote, she says, flirting has no objective. If you think you're flirting, but you have an objective, I want this guy to ask for my number. I wanna get this date. I want to get a free drink. That's hustling, not flirting, right?

[00:11:59] A baby has no objective. A baby is feeling the pleasure and letting the giggles come out of their mouth. That's their entire objective is to be, it's not even objective because it's what they're gonna do. They're just gonna be honest and authentic with the pleasure or the pain, right? They might scream and cry instead. It's that simple.

[00:12:19] Gwyn: That's amazing and super helpful personally, and also for everyone,

[00:12:25] Elize: and then you get to reframe this idea of being bad at flirting, right? So many people that I talk to are like, I'm a terrible flirt. And I'm like, well, what are you enjoying in this moment? Do you like my hair? It's a weird shape today. You wanna touch my undercut? It's very fuzzy. And then they break into a grin, and then you can't stop yourself from being drawn to them.

[00:12:45] Gwyn: That's so good. Yeah. That's really just rich and luscious.

[00:12:50] Elize: rich and luscious to be alive in a body that is feeling pleasure,

[00:12:58] Gwyn: yeah. I just wanna breathe

[00:13:01] Elize: that resonates for you. I can see that

[00:13:03] Gwyn: yeah, absolutely.

[00:13:04] Elize: not like to do, but you like to be alive and feeling pleasure.

[00:13:07] Gwyn: I absolutely do. 100%.

[00:13:11] Elize: Yeah.

[00:13:11] Gwyn: Yeah. And it's, it took me, uh, you know, a long time to figure that out, so, and that's okay. We all, we all get to where we get to when we get there. But I

[00:13:22] Elize: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:23] Gwyn: the dating piece, um, we hear all these horror stories and you said something that feels almost controversial that dating can be like going out and hanging out with your best friend. Tell me more, please.

[00:13:39] Elize: Well, first, I, I wanna say I was hanging out with some girlfriends last weekend, and one of them was telling, I think so I'm married and not exactly monogamous, so I have new people circulating my life. Uh, and I was with two girlfriends, one who very recently started dating, someone she's really excited about, and another one who has been, oh God, this girl, she has drawn the short stick over and over and over again and, uh, just took a two year celibate hiatus and is finally starting to get back to dating.

[00:14:14] And so she was telling us some horror stories and the tagline of the day was the bar is in hell. So yes, I am very, the, the bar's in hell, it's, the landscape out there is not great. I think, uh, I. I don't want to presume that anyone listening to this is a woman, but I think I, I, I really do think of myself as someone who's on the front lines of this male loneliness epidemic that people keep talking about, right?

[00:14:43] The men who are in the dating pool right now, a lot of them have not been positively reinforced to be the kind of date and the kind of partner that women are looking for. And I say that as neutrally as possible. I don't wanna blame anybody for this particular moment that we're in, but I think a lot of people would agree that that's what's happening right now.

[00:15:06] So the bar is in hell. People are having a lot of terrible experiences. And, um, what, what gifts do I wanna give to the people who are having those experiences? Uh, this came up with the friend last night and it's one of the things that creates for me the context of dating that I enjoy the most, which is understanding that I can leave anytime.

[00:15:32] Right? If you were out with a friend and that friend started throwing a tantrum or expecting things of you that you were not available for, you'd probably excuse yourself, right? Maybe you wouldn't burn the bridge necessarily, but you might say, you know, I'm not feeling this tonight. I'm gonna leave. Sounds like you have things to process and unfortunately I don't have space for that right now, so I'm gonna get outta here. It was nice spending time with you.

[00:15:57] I think a lot of people who are dating really struggle with goodbyes. My husband and I run a singles event where we practice skills like this, and every single time when we ask, what would make your dating life easier or more pleasurable?

[00:16:11] Leaving, leaving, ghosting, rejecting, leaving, ghosting, rejecting, leaving, ghosting, rejecting every single time. That's what we hear people are struggling with. And I brag that perhaps as a part of my role, as an incredible permission giver, I give myself permission to leave only all the time whenever I want, and it makes a massive difference to my experience of dating, right?

[00:16:39] If I know that I'm not trapped here with this person, I can actually enjoy the discomfort this person might be giving me. I remember a couple years ago I was on a date, and it was before Trump won the first time and I was out with this Swedish guy and I was very triggered by the political situation.

[00:16:57] Part of the reason I was on this date was to not think about it, and that's all he wanted to talk about. He's gonna win and Hillary's whatever. And I was very upset about it and I asked him multiple times to change the topic and not come back to this topic. If you wanna talk about this, I'm gonna leave.

[00:17:17] Right? Really classic boundary setting. If you're gonna talk about this, I'm gonna leave and let you talk about it with somebody else. Any person at this bar, if you wanna ruin their day with this topic, go for it. I won't stop you, but I'm not gonna be here for this. And he brought it up twice more. I went to the bathroom, I came back, I grabbed my coat.

[00:17:39] I said, this drink is on you. I'm outta here. I set my boundary and I'm gonna follow through. It's that simple and that means that I can enjoy the process of dating because I feel taken care of by myself.

[00:17:53] Gwyn: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And so going into the date, you don't have these expectations. You have what you want perhaps to get out of it, but also , the boundary piece feels really important.

[00:18:09] Elize: Mm-hmm. You have to have, of course, I would love to fall in love tonight. Wouldn't that be nice? I would also love to try the cocktail that is my intention for tonight. I would love to see the movie that is my intention for tonight. I would love to get to know a stranger with curiosity.

[00:18:28] I would love to show up as my best self. Right? There are things that are within your control and things that are not in your control, and so we have to let go of the attachment, the things that are not in our control, this person might show up and be a total asshat. I can't control that. I can only control the fact that I'm gonna take care of myself in a really loving way.

[00:18:49] I'm gonna be honest and authentic with them about who I am, and then the things that are outside my control are gonna fall outside my control.

[00:18:57] Gwyn: Yeah. And being open, to following through when the things that are outside of your control are not working for you

[00:19:06] Elize: Yeah. And being open, you know, like to, to go into a date with the perspective of like, I'm meeting my husband tonight, come hell or high water. Right. What if you go on this date and it turns out this person is an incredible squash teacher and instead of being your life partner, it is revealed over the course of the evening that actually they might just be the doorway to the best new sport you've not heard of.

[00:19:35] You know, to hold so tightly to that desire and expected outcome cuts us off from so many other incredible possibilities.

[00:19:45] Gwyn: Yeah, That leading with curiosity piece makes a lot of sense

[00:19:48] Elize: Mm-hmm. What can I create here

[00:19:52] Gwyn: Yeah.

[00:19:53] Elize: and do I want that?

[00:19:55] Gwyn: And do I want that right?

[00:19:57] Elize: And if I don't want it, goodbye.

[00:20:00] Gwyn: See ya.

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[00:21:08] Gwyn: Okay, so let's talk about some communication breakdowns. You were talking about that being a stagehand, being able to translate people to each other. How do you see that happening with folks who are trying to have conversations in dating and conversations and relationships, and what can people do about it.

[00:21:30] if they don't have you sitting there going, oh, you're saying this, but you're saying this.

[00:21:34] Elize: one of the things that I'm really working on instituting in my own relationship is speaking in the right time. I think so often, especially when emotions are high, people will try to fix the problem when they're only figuring out what the problem is or whether there is a problem, right?

[00:21:53] So one of the things that I tell my clients a lot is that in the moment when you're noticing a thing is a great time to name, that you're noticing a thing. Later when the emotion isn't so hot, that's a great time to negotiate what might be a good solution to the thing.

[00:22:09] So a great example, you're out with your partner. You experience them as being really flirty with the waiter. And you might say, wow, I'm really noticing that. I feel I felt warm when you were talking with that waiter. I wonder what that's about. It's a great moment for noticing. You're noticing and sharing, you're noticing, inviting your partner into seeing you, into witnessing the noticing that , that you're having.

[00:22:35] Later when you get home and you've had a moment to sit with, it is a great time to say something. Like, when you spoke to that waiter in that way and made really deep eye contact with them and complimented them and they said how beautiful your eyes were, it had me feel unimportant. It had me feel, uh, like I wasn't a factor in your world because they were so beautiful and you gave them so much attention.

[00:23:03] And I was thinking maybe a good solution to that is introducing me in a situation like that. Or asking, well, like what do you think of their shirt? Do you think it's as nice as I do? Or is that a color you like? Whatever it is, including me in that. And that's some pretty standard nonviolent communication, right?

[00:23:24] This thing happened, this is what I felt, and this is a potential solution that we can workshop to see if we can navigate around that in the next time. But. Separating those two events, right, so that you're not hiding, you're noticing when it's happening, you're still being transparent, you're still creating the context where your partner might hold space for the reaction that you're noticing in the moment, but you're also not trying to solve a problem that you don't even know the scope of yet, right?

[00:23:53] If you give it that 24 hours to sit with it, you might realize, oh, you know, that thing, he did it. It just reminded me of this thing. My mom did a lot when I was in high school. This is actually not about him at all. And then if that's what happens in your, in your processing of it, then when you bring it to him, it might not even be a request.

[00:24:12] It might just be, can I tell you a story of this thing my mom used to do in high school? Right? You don't have to have a fight in the restaurant. Telling him how he should fix his behavior to make you more comfortable. You can just be with what's true now and then take your time to be with what you might desire and have the space to negotiate that.

[00:24:34] One of the other tools for communicating and obviously everything I'm naming like, as a person who works with people who are not always monogamous, I think of everything that I share, all the tools that I share as working for every relationship in your life.

[00:24:50] So much of the, the tools, that I give people I get from like, parenting videos, you know, like, it's just all fascinating the way that humans be with each other. Um, so one thing that I wanna name that I find the most helpful, both in my coaching personally, in my relationship, in my friendships, when I can remember to use it, is mirroring, right?

[00:25:14] So my partner might say to me, you didn't water the plants this week. Now I'm scared they're all gonna die. And I can just say to him, I didn't water the plants this week. And yeah, it, it is scary. They, they might, they might die. That makes sense, right?

[00:25:31] It is the simplest, it is the simplest, bare bones communication, but it requires for us to not bring our perspective necessarily.

[00:25:44] Right. It says, what you are saying to me is the most important thing right now. And I don't need to get defensive. I don't need to go on about how many hours I worked this week. And you also could have watered the plants and you know, this isn't my fault. Me, me, me, me at you in response to what you shared with me.

[00:26:04] I'm just gonna give what you shared the floor. And a lot of the time that just diffuses it. And then later, once the other person's emotions have settled because they feel seen and heard crazy, then you might be able to say, you know, like I worked a lot this week. I was out of the house a lot. Can we talk about what the plant watering schedule could be so that when I'm not here you can do more of it?

[00:26:33] Because I also don't want them to die. I also was kind of scared they might not make it through the week. So like what are some solutions that we can come to together? And also, I felt a little attacked when you told me that when, when you presented it as though it was entirely my fault. Right? So maybe we wanna talk about like how you can speak to me that won't have me feel like it's all my fault in the future. There's so many things that we can look at from this, but if your person comes to you with, you killed the plants, and I'm scared to hit them back with all the defense, all the reasons why you're not at fault, all of the reasons why it's actually their fault, how often does that conversation go well?

[00:27:21] You know, like we're just trying to create conversations that keep us on the same train, moving in the same direction for as long as we both desire to be on this train together.

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[00:28:08] Are there other like big things that come up a lot, like over and over and over again when we're talking about communicating?

[00:28:17] Elize: This other one on my list is really present for me right now because of a particular couple that I'm working with. So, um, this couple that I've been working with, they have really different, I don't like to use the language of love languages, but, different things that make them feel loved and safe.

[00:28:35] And one of them that is touch and the other one has a high value on their space and intelligence and just wants help with their life rather than hugs and kisses.

[00:28:53] And so there's this concept called the Wheel of Consent, which I'm a huge fan of. And one of the things they talk about in the wheel of consent is there's this gift that I'm wanting to give.

[00:29:03] Am I wanting to give this gift because I think it's gonna make your life so much better? Or am I wanting to give this gift because I think it would be a pleasure for me to give it to you? Or am I wanting to give you this gift? Because I think receiving it would make my life better. And so I'm just gonna assume that because I wanna receive it, you should wanna receive it too.

[00:29:26] I think everyone has felt each of those and everyone has been given a gift. They're like, why are you giving me this? When I was in middle school for my birthday, somebody gave me a Nintendo and I remember getting home opening it. My brother was like over the moon, immediately plugged it in and started playing, and I was like, this was a gift for me for my birthday, who woke up this morning and thought, Elize is gonna love a Nintendo.

[00:29:57] That person was not thinking about me. They were either thinking about my brother or how happy it would make my parents to have the two of us be busy all the time, or themselves, and the fact that they would love a Nintendo or love the Nintendo that they already have. This gift was not designed with me in mind, and it had me feel very unimportant and unseen.

[00:30:23] And when we give gifts to our partners or the people in our lives that are not designed for them, that's what happens. And so I teach my clients this language around gifting and how to say to their partner, is this gift really for me? Or is this a gift that you would like to receive?

[00:30:40] Or is this a gift that you imagine I should want to receive? Or is this a gift that you just think would make you look really attractive to give? What's happening with this gift? And here are a couple other gifts that would actually have me feel really loved. Here are some other gift options that I would really like to receive right now, and you can move from there.

[00:31:03] Gwyn: Beautiful. so what does it mean to be met fully in a relationship? How do

[00:31:10] Elize: Hmm.

[00:31:10] Gwyn: they found that?

[00:31:12] Elize: People choose the person who's gonna trigger them in the way that their higher self wants to be triggered.

[00:31:19] Maybe that's a bold statement, but I think probably a lot of your viewers are like, oh yeah, duh. I know that. Like, let's look at my ex, right.

[00:31:26] so a lot for me, a lot of what it means to be met fully is to both be people who are taking responsibility for yourselves and trying to give the best for your partner. And the fact that you might be triggered by something or hurt by something is not grounds for disqualification of you as a partner or as a person.

[00:31:54] It means that you both honor the fullness of each other and are willing to be slow mirror, communicate well. Take your time, not speak in ways that are unnecessarily cutting or hurtful so that you can literally show up, literally meet your partner. Where they be because it's a fine place to be. They don't have to be something different than they are. You don't have to be any different than you are to be worthy of being met with love in all of your parts.

[00:32:32] Gwyn: That's really lovely. That's such a beautiful sentiment and, and so important people, um, be honest and aware. Take the time to do the things. And if none of that has happened and you're on the other end you are facing heartbreak, I know that you have a heartbreak ritual. And I just wanna talk about that a little bit because that is also a really important time to honor.

[00:33:04] Elize: Yeah.

[00:33:05] Gwyn: helps people move forward, I would imagine.

[00:33:08] Elize: Oh yeah. Well, I'm just gonna get this outta my head 'cause it's replaying so much. But if you're not being honest about who you are, you're not in a relationship. You might have someone lying next to you, but you're not actually in a relationship if you're not being truthful with who you are as how I think about relationships.

[00:33:28] Um, heartbreak. Yeah. I really love working with people one-on-one. I, I'm a responder in human design and I just get so much out of being face-to-face or zoom room to zoom room with somebody and like, feeling their heart and their truth and their words. And so a couple months ago I connected with this woman on the internet who told me, I, I was actually kind of surprised.

[00:33:57] She was like, I had a situationship with this person like five years ago. I'm engaged to somebody else. This person I barely dated and I can't stop thinking about them for the last three months. I dunno what happened. I, I woke up, they were in a dream. I woke up and I cannot get them outta my head.

[00:34:14] I've told my fiance all about it, but I can't stop ruminating and it's ruining my fiance's season, right? Like, I, I just have to do something about this. And I don't know why, but I just, I felt her so deeply. I was like, I can help you. Like, let's just get on a call. And we talked for 45 minutes and I had done a, program. Like a year or two earlier. Where they, you have these, um, sort of practice relationships, these like one week practice relationships where you really just get to see how do I show up in relationship? So it's this process where you get to just see yourself, show up in all these little mini relationships, and they have a breakup ritual for the end of each relationship. And so I took this woman through what I recalled from that breakup ritual, and it was incredible to watch. It was like an exorcism.

[00:35:12] When we started she was sort of like full of this swirly energy from this ex and this pain and all of the parts of herself that were, uh, in conversation with that experience that she had, that judgment that she had all of that, all of that muck, energetic muck.

[00:35:31] And I took her through what I remembered from that ritual and it. My mom's a chiropractor, and after she adjusts you, she's like, you're gonna sleep like the dead. And I, you know, we're wrapping up the call and I could just see she was like preparing to drift off into the most blissful slumber.

[00:35:51] And I was like, that was freaking good. I need to write that down. And so I wrote down what I took her through, and then I went back and I looked at my notes from the other, thing I had done, and they were completely different.

[00:36:05] I was shocked. I was like, my memory must be terrible because I thought I was duplicating this perfectly. And instead I made up something completely different based on what I had wished I had had in that experience. and it's largely influenced by actually positive psychology and creating the space of gratitude around what happened. And creating the what can I create from this out of what happened, right? So it asks questions like, what are you grateful for from this person? What do you want for them in their future that is not with you? What did you learn about yourself? What did you learn about them? Right? It's all these questions, these like introspective spaces for you to inhabit with yourself.

[00:36:54] Looking back at that relationship and then architecting, what do I want next? What do I deserve next? And then there's some instruction on what you can do with it. So you can do one of these for every relationship you've ever been in and keep them logged in a folder. Or you can do one and like in the end, like write yourself this beautiful kick ass letter and then burn it and dance around the fire.

[00:37:18] You can do it however you want, but it's like a prayer to past, present, and future. To call in and create what you do want and let go with more grace and love of what you don't want and what you experienced in the past. It's very, very healing.

[00:37:36] Gwyn: It sounds phenomenal. It sounds really,

[00:37:40] Elize: you. I'm actually really proud of it.

[00:37:43] Gwyn: yeah. No, that's fantastic. . Yeah, I've had some real difficulties with some of the breakups that I've had and, creating some off the cuff kind of rituals that, that sort of worked. But I feel like if I had had prompts that it, it would've been a lot more, uh, a lot less challenging, a lot easier to get through it.

[00:38:08] opposed to it taking, um, well, one in particular took years honestly, to

[00:38:14] Elize: Yeah.

[00:38:15] Gwyn: get to a place where I was, okay, I can deal with seeing this person's name.

[00:38:19] Elize: The image that comes up for me is like, I want you to be able to surf the wave instead of being taken under by it and smashed into the rocks. And so , it's like being able to stand on top of the wave and see the view, see the shore, see the ocean behind you, see the other surfers, right?

[00:38:41] Takes you out of the experience of the pain and the trauma and the emotion and the misery, and lets you sort of stand in this place of clarity and then land onto the shore, rather than just being pummeled by the surf.

[00:38:58] Gwyn: Yeah. That's really, really fantastic. what is one myth that you wish you could debunk forever?

[00:39:07] Elize: honestly, I think the flirting one might be the number one myth that I most debunk. No, but there are so many more responsive desire, like basically anything Emily Nagoski has ever written, I'm like, this should just be required reading in high school.

[00:39:26] Like "Come As You Are", should be required reading. It's like the owner's manual for having a human body.

[00:39:34] myth that I could bust forever.

[00:39:37] That getting into a relationship solves something.

[00:39:42] I don't know where people got that idea. Probably Disney, but I talk to people all the time who are like, I wanna be in a relationship. I wanna get married. And I'm like, cool. I want you to know like those are totally valid desires and it's not a finish line. It's choosing to start a long-term group project could last forever.

[00:40:06] Do you enjoy. Long-term group projects yes, is a great answer. No is also a legitimate answer. Why do you wanna be in a relationship? Is it to get your mother off your back? Is it because you want someone who's gonna do the dishes for you forever? Is it for financial reasons or is it I really want to be co-creating something?

[00:40:28] I wanna be in a group project because I, I wanna create the art piece, right? I, I want a partner who's gonna join me in my vision of creating this business or this home or this family, whatever it is. I have a group art project in my head that I wanna create and I wanna find someone who's gonna join me and be an incredible co collaborator on in service of that vision.

[00:40:57] That's a great reason to be in a relationship. That's a great reason to wanna start something. But I want to get my mom off my back. I wanna, you know, give them grand babies. I think I should. I'm too old to be single. Not my favorite reasons. I think people think that getting into a relationship is gonna solve something.

[00:41:21] It just creates new things to solve because you have to find all the pieces to make that our project.

[00:41:27] Gwyn: That is an amazing answer that, yeah

[00:41:33]

[00:41:33] Elize: I think I, it's unusual for a relationship coach. I don't think everyone should be in relationship.

[00:41:39] I think a lot of people are in relationship for really bad reasons, and that those relationships just cause more harm.

[00:41:45] if people were less afraid of being single, that would probably be a good thing. So you have permission, you have permission to desire to be single. Even if your, you know, parents desperately want grand babies, you have permission.

[00:42:02] You have permission to do what is true for you, rather than dragging somebody else into a, a bad reason to start a group project that might make everybody miserable for a really long time.

[00:42:12] Gwyn: Not to mention involve the state in courts and like

[00:42:16] Elize: Yes.

[00:42:19] Gwyn: they don't

[00:42:20] Elize: I, I, I call marriage a legal merger.

[00:42:24] Gwyn: Yes.

[00:42:24] Elize: are like, you're very unromantic for a relationship coach. I'm like, I, I'm just calling it like a see it, man. I mean, I, I did it. I, I, I'm married and I'm grateful and I have the best. The art project co-partner in the world. I do, but that's, that's what it is, you know?

[00:42:45] And to see it, to see it through a more romantic lens is to do a disservice to the art project, I think.

[00:42:56] Gwyn: This has been fantastic. There is a lot here for folks to chew on. I wanna be sure to mention, your dating profile checklist, which is free. Yeah.

[00:43:06] Elize: Yeah, Yeah, the dating profile checklist is free. So it's intended to be used for creating like a profile on an app, obviously, but I don't think everyone should be on apps. So I'll just say that, um, what I would recommend is downloading it and, using it as a mental checklist for am I showing people everything they need to know in order to wanna be in a group project with me?

[00:43:32] And am I getting the information that I need to know about whether this person would be a group project partner for me? Right. So it's, I think I have five parts and like I said on the outside, it is designed to be for a dating app profile. but the, the main things I wanna highlight from it is that you wanna show people or see from people what would it look like to be a part of your daily life, right?

[00:44:01] If I was with you tomorrow, if I could snap my fingers and be your partner tomorrow, where would we live? What are you a morning person or an evening person? Like, what would the experience of being intimately connected to your life look like and what is your art project? If I were to join with you?

[00:44:19] Like what are you creating? Is your biggest commitment in life to be like a Michelin star chef who, like you've got your restaurant on Park Avenue and your biggest commitment is to being in New York so that you can keep that five star restaurant going until you're dead? Or is your biggest commitment, like, I want a future where I am fully nomadic, where I work remote and I create these things?

[00:44:48] Or is my art project vision of my life to be an artist, to have a studio. You know, like what is, what is the vision that I would be joining into as your group project partner if I were to join with you? Those are the main things that I think people don't think of those as a part of dating, but to me they are.

[00:45:10] The main part of dating is like, what does the day-to-day look like and where is this train going?

[00:45:15] Gwyn: I'm gonna download it because I'm curious

[00:45:18] Elize: Thank you.

[00:45:19] Gwyn: sort of dating. So, you know, we'll see how that goes. Uh, I'll report back not to worry. So you've got your dating profile checklist, the heart rate ritual, heart break ritual, both of which

[00:45:30] Elize: I think I call it, oh, it's called Sacred Goodbyes.

[00:45:33] Gwyn: Love that. Thank you. and people can also schedule a call with you to see how fits and, and if you guys could work together.

[00:45:44] Elize: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:44] Gwyn: all of that wherever it is that things get linked here. Um, has been great, Elize. Thank you so much. Uh, like I said, there's a lot to chew on and, um, yeah, I'm, I'm really delighted you decided to come on and do this with me. Thank you

[00:46:01] Elize: Thank you so much for reaching out. Yeah. This was really, really fun.

[00:46:05] Gwyn: There's a lot that I want to unpack, Yeah.

[00:46:08] Elize: I work one-on-one with people, we record the video and I always tell them like, give it a couple of days, journal about what you noticed on the call, and then in a couple of days you can go back for more, watch it a second time, see what else is in there, because it's not your job to, to suck all the marrow out in the moment.

[00:46:29] It's your job to be receptive to what you're, what you're needing right now, and what can get in right now.

[00:46:37] Gwyn: yeah, I love that. And it makes a lot of sense. And I, I don't do that specifically, but I do do that personally. There's more to be unearthed because we never, we very rarely get to the very base of something, the very first time that we're paying attention to it.

[00:46:54] Elize: Totally. The other thing I wanna mention for your audience is that one of my favorite ways to work with clients is voice note exclusive coaching. So if they really liked the way that this flow felt, it's an incredible tool.

[00:47:13] Like I, I think sometimes it's more valuable than, uh, the calls themselves. I mean, honestly, combining them is probably the best. But, um, just to get to witness yourself process out loud, and then get feedback and reframes and tools and mirroring and all the things, it is so incredible and it's one of my favorite services to offer.

[00:47:35] So if anyone is thinking about that, then you can schedule a call with me and we'll talk about it.

[00:47:41] Gwyn: Thank you so

[00:47:41] much

[00:47:43] Speaker: Before you forget and the next show comes on, why don't you go ahead and share this with the friend that you thought of while you were listening to it? They will probably find it really helpful, and thoughtful that you thought of them.

[00:47:54] Before we wrap up in full, Elise is offering two things that you want to grab. Her dating profile checklist is free, and even if you are not actively dating, the questions in it are really, really useful and worth sitting with. And Sacred Goodbyes, her heartbreak ritual, is a downloadable guide. It's only twenty-two dollars, and it honestly feels like a super steal for something that could be so helpful.

[00:48:23] Both the links are in the show notes. You can also work with her directly with her one-on-one coaching, including voice note coaching, which is so fun and so cool. I think I'm gonna start using that as a potential add-on for my text-based a- asynchronous coaching.

[00:48:40] But learn more about Elize. You can find her at elizesimon.com. Uh, You can go look at her Linktree, which is also Elize Simon, and her Instagram. She also runs singles events in New York, and I checked, she is still doing them. They are still active. You should go to one if you are in the area. All of that lives on her Instagram and her Linktree. You can find her by searching Elize Simon or going to those places and typing elise.simon.

[00:49:07] Elize is E-L-I-Z-E, Simon, S-I-M-O-N. And while you're out there scrolling the web, come find me at whatexcitesus.com. Thanks so much for listening. Go be a little braver today.