What Excites Us!

Episode 71: Kink 101 through How to do it Right - with Nyxie Noc

In this episode we mentioned:

📖 "Rolling Out the Red Carpet for No" by Mischa Byruck (evolve.men): https://medium.com/@mbyruck/rolling-out-the-red-carpet-for-the-no-af94d1396fe0

🌐 evolve.men: https://www.evolve.men/

✅ Fries for Consent / Planned Parenthood: https://www.plannedparenthooddirect.org/article/what-consent

⚠️ NCSF on Breath Play & Choking (please read this): https://ncsfreedom.org/?s=breath+play

📚 Hurt So Good by Lake Howard — neuroscience and masochism

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Transcript:

Ep 71 Nyxie

[00:00:00] Speaker 7: This podcast is about sex and sexuality, so please only listen if you are an adult without kids or other ears around that cannot, or do not consent to sensitive language and content. Thanks.

[00:00:18] Gwyn: Hello and welcome to what excites us. My name is Gwyn Isaacs. I am a clinical certified sexologist who has been helping folks feel better in their bodies and about their relationships since 2017. I truly believe pleasure is the key to everything and this podcast is devoted to helping you feel seen, understood, and like you have permission to enjoy yourself.

[00:00:46] Did you know that in a study, 70% of people identified themselves as being not vanilla? That means you should definitely be listening.

[00:00:57] This episode is with Nyxie Noc, who is a wealth of information in the kink community. They are just an amazing human as well. We start with some very basic mild, how do you explain kink to a bunch of people who have no idea or think it's harmful and go really deep pretty fast.

[00:01:22] This is an episode for everyone who's interested, curious, or really would like to level up their game. We talk about ethical dominance. We talk about some tools that you can use. We talk about things that they are going to be talking about in the future, and how to just be a better player and be a better human as well.

[00:01:46] Quick note that if you are a very visual person or you have squeamishness around intense language, you might wanna dip off for a little bit in the middle. But it's really the, the episode is entirely worth it. Please stick around if you can.

[00:02:06] Nyxie Noc is a kink educator, a sadist, a teacher of therapists, a diehard advocate for agency, and is genuinely, one of the most knowledgeable and thoughtful people I have ever had the opportunity to interview around kink in particular.

[00:02:24] Nyxie Noc is available and excited to help kinky individuals and organizers create safer, and more inclusive experiences together. Their focus is on creating a culture of consent and agency, particularly within alternative lifestyles and L-G-B-T-Q-I-A communities.

[00:02:46] They offer a wealth of opportunities, including shame-free exploration, teaching, presenting, leading spaces, or even just coaching. Okay, you can find them on all of the places that you would expect.

[00:03:04] Thank you Nyxie I am so delighted that you came on what excites us to come and talk with us. You are a wealth of knowledge and information in the kink world and all sorts of other fun places, this is gonna be a really, really fun conversation. And I have a bunch of listeners and a bunch of different levels of interest of kink. So let's start at the like sort of shallower end and then get to go really fun and deep..

[00:03:35] Nyxie: That sounds great. That's usually how I teach.

[00:03:39] Gwyn: Excellent.

[00:03:40] Nyxie: Yep.

[00:03:41] Gwyn: kink can be really scary for a lot of people. You and I know that it is not super scary, um, although it is fun to play with the scary.

[00:03:50] Nyxie: Yes,

[00:03:51] Gwyn: So if you were standing in front of a bunch of total newbies, how would you describe it?

[00:03:57] Nyxie: I often stand in front of a bunch of total newbies. 'cause one of the things that I do is teach people who are in like counseling LMFT and psychology programs, how to serve kink community in their clientele better. And so I need to give them sort of a crash course intro on like what kink is and what kink isn't and how it differs from like, abusive relationships and stuff.

[00:04:22] So that's where I usually get started. Um, for me, kink is anytime that you wanna explore something outside the realm of vanilla sex, uh, with, you know, your full chest of like deep. Agency and consent and going forward and just exploring what there is to explore, whether that's like partialism fetishes or certain fantasies or acts or, dynamics that involve power exchange where one person for the, either a scene that lasts an hour or a 24 7 dynamic pretends to be up here and somebody else pretends to be down there.

[00:05:04] Um, but it's all consensual and negotiated and that, you know, when that scene is over or when that dynamic is over, they come back to an equilibrium. Um, and we can dig into privilege and stuff like that and how that takes shape in your ability to consent and have agency as well. But that's a lot, that's a whole class.

[00:05:22] But in general for me, kink is, is anything outside of just cis het normative and, um. And also some, some queer people don't identify as kinky. Um, but then straight cis people do think that what they do is kinky. So like to me, kink is anything that you think is kinky.

[00:05:46] I will say also that the University of Southern Illinois, has a program where they study kink. Um, the person who is in charge of that is Brad Sagarin And I met him um, a month ago at Kinky College in Chicago. And he gave me a very special pin of a dinosaur chain to a cross and being tickled with a feather. And it gives me so much joy. I love it so much. I just about cried when he handed it to me.

[00:06:09] 'Cause I was like, I wanted this pin, which was from two years ago and they had run out and I wanted it. And he actually went back home and got me one and, and gave it to me because I asked nicely. So I was very excited about that. But in that program, they do annual surveys on ethical non-monogamy and on kink that anybody can participate in. They send you a pin. It's very cute. They have a different pin every year. And what they have found is that over 70% of people identify as kinky, or it's just not vanilla. 70% of people say that they have some kind of kink.

[00:06:45] And I wanna say also that, um, partialism, so people who are attracted to like feet or legs or ears or, you know, very specifically interested in butts, that partialism, there is some evidence to support that those fetishes are inborn and possibly hereditary and part of our, the makeup of our brain and not something that we choose or control.

[00:07:10] So when you, think about like how homosexuality and transgenderism is actually like something people are born with and then people think that kink is just something that you do. I disagree. I think that kink is something that we are.

[00:07:25] Gwyn: Man, there's so much just in that opening bit that I wanna take apart and dive deeper in. Partialism. I've never actually heard that term before. It makes so much sense, and I love the, the concept that it's inborn, also makes so much sense. I mean, we are, driven to what it is that we're turned on by, by who knows what, right.

[00:07:55] Nyxie: yeah, I mean 30% of people report being into feet and a lot of those people I've talked to and they wish that they weren't because it others them, it makes them feel weird. People think that they're gross. They don't wanna be into feet, but they're into feet. It's undeniable. And they've been into feet as long as they can remember, like five years old into feet.

[00:08:17] Even before it was sexual, they were into feet. And I just don't feel like that's something we need to stigmatize for one. And also just like, I wanna know more about it, the whole, like it may be hereditary thing is very much like in the pre-theory stages of things, but I wanna just say that gravity is also a theory.

[00:08:35] Gwyn: Yeah. No, it makes so much sense to me. It's like, why do you like chocolate ice cream? I mean it, yes, I also enjoy vanilla and pistachio, but like, if given a choice, I'm gonna choose chocolate every time.

[00:08:51] Nyxie: I mean, wouldn't it be just crazy to find out that being into feet was as part of your brain as being left-handed?

[00:08:58] Gwyn: Yeah.

[00:08:59] Nyxie: And then it's like, well, you can't really control that. You're left-handed. You can try writing with your right hand your entire life. I know my spouse did his, uh, mom corrected him and made him write with his right hand his whole life, and now he's right-handed, but he's still left eye dominant. He's still right brained. You cannot unwire your brain in that way. Like if you're into feet, you're into feet.

[00:09:21] Gwyn: Sure. Yes. absolutely. So when you give these presentations to, uh, the professionals in the counseling realm, h how does it go over? Are people, can they wrap their heads around it? Are they coming in with open minds?

[00:09:38] Nyxie: Yes. 'cause they want to know more. And this is like, the cool part about teaching to people who are in science fields is that those, they're eternally curious people. And they do wanna know more, and they also wanna help people and they wanna know more so they can help people better. So that's cool. That's a great place to start.

[00:09:55] It's so much better than people starting from a place of like, this is deviant, this is bad, this is sinful, this is gross. Um, I don't wanna talk to a lot of, I mean, I do talk to those people and sometimes I, I pull them over to the, to, you know, the, the good side. But most of the time it's like we're at an impasse.

[00:10:10] We're not gonna get anywhere here. That's okay. But when it comes to people who are in science fields, I love the curiosity and I love that they want to ask questions. Um, but we are programmed to think that being hit by somebody is abuse. We are told that wanting to be degraded, humiliated, subjugated, treated as furniture objectified, et cetera, is abuse.

[00:10:32] And so it's a hard nut to crack to really get to people and say like, I want you to consider that. Maybe sometimes it's not. You know, when we see people in dynamic where there's a big strong person who's what a tiny little partner and their dynamic involves that big, strong person slapping that tiny person in the face, people are going to ugh.

[00:10:55] Um, and that makes sense. That's normal. Like I tell people all the time when I am, giving orientations for kinky camp outs, if you wanna do a CNC scene or like a rape fantasy scene, you should do it in the dungeon.

[00:11:11] Gwyn: Sorry for the brief interruption. I just wanna tell people who might not know that CNC stands for consensual non-consent.

[00:11:18] Nyxie: You should tell the dungeon monitor because if you do it in your tent in the middle of the night and I'm walking past your tent to go to the bathroom and I hear, no, don't stop help, I'm coming in like the Kool-Aid man.

[00:11:30] And then it's gonna be a really awkward conversation about how that's a CNC scene and Yeah, yeah, yeah. The thing is like, we have to know what's going on. Um, when I talk to professionals, what I really try to impart to them is when you're talking to clients in your counseling practice. We wanna be looking for the presence of agency.

[00:11:51] And if you think that your client has agency, then you can pretty assuredly assume that what they're engaging in is something that they know what they're about and it is not harmful to them, and that they've made educated choices and they're doing what they wanna do as an adult. Now we also talk about like performative consent and making survival choices and stuff like that, and how that is not the presence of agency.

[00:12:21] And that's kind of like where I draw the line of like, is this a consensual dynamic or is this somebody thinking they need to participate in dynamic in order to maintain a relationship that they wanna be in with a partner they wanna be with and how we differentiate there. And that's part of the therapy practice.

[00:12:40] But for me, like those people mostly wanna know, those therapists mostly wanna know how do I differentiate between people who are into playing as a little and people who are into child pornography. How do I tell the difference between somebody who's into pup play or therian play or pet play and somebody who's actually into harming animals?

[00:13:03] What I find is that people who are usually into littles and pup play and things like that are the people who find actual abuse of animals and children the most abhorrent. So, there's exceptions to every statement, but I find that like when you talk to kinksters who are into little play about something as, awful as, minors being involved. They will be the first ones to shout that down and go, absolutely the fuck not.

[00:13:29] Gwyn: yeah, Talk a little bit about agency. When you say that, what is it that you're meaning.

[00:13:36] Nyxie: I often say that agency is a missing piece in the consent conversation. I think that we've, we've been operating with the whole fries for consent by Planned Parenthood for a while now, and it's great. It's a great place to start. We have freely given, reversible, informed, um, enthusiastic where I like to use engaged. And then specific are the, you know, the pathways to consent.

[00:13:58] Um, but I think that that doesn't cover the ability that a person has to make consent choices. And your ability to center yourself in your choices. And that freedom to center yourself in your choices is what agency is.

[00:14:19] Agency is saying, I'm not doing this, so, so and so won't leave me. I'm not doing this because I'll get fired if I don't, I'm not doing this because somebody will, um, not like me if I don't do it. I'm doing this because I want to do this. Like, if I had to wipe away all other considerations in my deep, center, do I feel like I wanna do this and does this serve me?

[00:14:46] And that is agency in so many words. So, um, I do a lot of talks about agency. I have a whole workbook that your listeners can download for free on my link tree. Um, and I recently did an Ignite after Dark Talk on agency. Um, you can watch some other podcasts where I talk about agency and it's a big topic. Um, but what I will say is that a lot of times when we are doing the fries for consent model, we're not considering that that consent might be performative.

[00:15:17] That some of that consent might not come from making survival choices that the person asking for the consent or trying to gain the consent is not aware of. When you as a person ask somebody else, can we do this together? And they come back with a, yeah, you're gonna take that at face value and be like, you know, if they're, if they're a confident yes.

[00:15:40] If they're like, yeah, sure, that sounds great. It's probably not gonna occur to you like. Is this person people pleasing me? Does this person say yes to me now because they want something else from me later? And if those are the yeses you're getting, that's not real consent. That's coming from a place of a lack of agency.

[00:15:59] If somebody is afraid to say no to you because they think you won't be friends anymore, or that you're gonna be mad at them, or that they're going to, you know, lose their job or their social standing or their place in your clique or their, um, their relationship with you, they will say yes enthusiastically. They'll even convince themselves that they're saying yes enthusiastically. But in fact, that is coming from a place of insecurity. And it feels like a survival choice that you have to convince yourself that you wanted when you did not.

[00:16:32] so agency really is shutting all of that down and going, do I really want to do this? Am I doing this for myself? Am I doing this with, every consideration? And do I feel like it's something that's for me? So I, I will definitely boost the, qualities and virtues of a certain degree of self-centeredness when making choices like that. Especially kink, because it's such a vulnerable thing to do.

[00:17:00] Center yourself in your choices when you're considering doing kink. Center yourself in your choices. Don't do it because you wanna be more popular. Don't do it because you wanna be with a certain person. Don't do it because you want clout or you feel like you're not allowed to say no, do it because it's something that serves you.

[00:17:17] ' Cause the people who really care about you don't actually want you to say yes to them when you don't wanna do something. They would be heartbroken to find out that you said yes when you didn't actually want to do it.

[00:17:29] Gwyn: That is such, oh, it gives me shivers. It's such an important piece. Um, and I honestly think that so many of us really, really deeply struggle with that. Not just in kink Right. In, in every aspect, but anything sexual or sensual even can be.

[00:17:48] Nyxie: Like

[00:17:49] Gwyn: Yeah.

[00:17:50] Nyxie: social groups, like Yeah.

[00:17:54] Gwyn: and

[00:17:54] Nyxie: relationships.

[00:17:56] Gwyn: for women in particular who were taught to never learn, never pay attention, to never focus ourselves at all.

[00:18:04] Nyxie: Yep.

[00:18:05] Gwyn: Then taking the step to be. Oh, do I really want this? How do I even what? So yeah, folks, if this is something that is touching a nerve, please go get Nyxie's workbook because I'm certain it's gonna be amazing.

[00:18:22] I'm literally, I'm getting shivers, like that's so good. okay. Don't want to duplicate because yes, you have talked about this a bunch recently, I think you said even on MAD's podcast, so please go pay attention because this is really, really good stuff. But you're also, you teach so much. You teach so many different things.

[00:18:45] Nyxie: Yeah, I really have like two groups of teaching where I teach like basic kink techniques and skills, and then I teach like weird stuff, like people who are into, um, like fingernails. I teach stuff like tickling and I teach stuff like Monster Fucking and inflation fetish, which is like balloons, bubblegum, pool floaties and stuff like that.

[00:19:11] I have those classes, which are very fringe because there's already a bunch of, like flogging 1 0 1, I teach impact classes, but they don't include flogging because flogging, I think is its own thing. But I have these like exploring kink classes where we talk about like how to broaden the scope of kink because I think it's been like unfortunately kind of overrun by people who wanna replicate what they see in pornography as their only example of kink.

[00:19:39] And I'm like, nah, nah, nah, that's not it. Um, and so I have classes like Expansive Cuckolding for queers. That's a very popular class. I have a covert public humiliation class that's also very popular. And I have those classes and then I also have the, like you're a little weirdo. You're a little weirdo and I know what you like and I'm gonna tell you how to do it better. Um, those types of classes, which are super, super fun too. And I'm also just a, died in the wool sadist, so anytime I get to hurt people as part of my demos in my classes is also super fun.

[00:20:13] Gwyn: Did you struggle with that at all? Were did. Was there a time when you were like, uh, this is really okay. I know a lot of tops go through that. That's why I'm asking.

[00:20:24] Nyxie: I still struggle with that. I still have those days usually like at certain points in my cycle where I'm like, am I really a monster? Because I love hurting people both physically and emotionally so much. Like I don't have to hurt them a lot and I don't even have to, it doesn't have to incorporate sex. It doesn't even have to incorporate dynamic, but like. I really like to hurt people emotionally and physically, and that's, that's where my good time is.

[00:20:57] My favorite things to watch when I need a comfort watch while I'm knitting on the couch. I like to watch jackass. I like watching people get kicked in the balls. I like watching people fall down. I was raised on America's Funniest home movies. Like, you can't, you can't blame me for that. So, I mean, it's part of who I am is that I like to hurt people. But the, again, the idea that it would hurt somebody without their consent is abhorent.

[00:21:24] Um, without their, not just their consent. Like, you can do it. I guess I'm, I'm fine with you doing that. No, I want people to come to me and go, please hurt me. Please tell me that I'm nothing. Please tell me that I'm garbage. Please tell me that I'm pathetic and, and a loser. And I'm like, yes, now we can get somewhere with this. But yeah, there are definitely times where I'm like, am I truly an awful person?

[00:21:47] Because I enjoy this. And of course the people in my life who like me to hurt them are the first people to go, no! No, I trust you to hurt me because you don't wanna hurt me unless I want it. And I really don't like people who would love to hurt me if I wanted it or not. Like you wanna hurt me the way I wanna be hurt as much as I wanna be hurt for as long as I wanna be hurt and no more than that.

[00:22:13] And that's, that's what makes you not a piece of garbage. And I have to, every once in a while check in with them and they go, are you sure I'm not a piece of garbage? Are you really sure I'm not a piece of garbage? Because I feel kind of like a piece of garbage. And then, you know, we have the same conversation that we probably had a month ago and rinse and repeat. But yeah, still.

[00:22:34] Gwyn: I think that's probably gonna be comforting for a lot of people to know that even someone who is so practiced that you are out there teaching. Still struggles with these Emotions, these basic sort of things that come up. Interesting that you've noticed that it's tied to your cycle. I like that.

[00:22:50] Nyxie: Well, every time I feel really garbage about like I'm an imposter and I have no business teaching and I'm a hack, it's also also tied to my cycle where I'm like, Hmm,

[00:22:59] Gwyn: Yeah.

[00:23:00] Nyxie: I need to go probably put on a, a new estrogen patch.

[00:23:05] Gwyn: And do your comfort things

[00:23:06] Nyxie: I need my HRT and a chocolate bar.

[00:23:10] Gwyn: Yeah. Ah, chocolate. I, I know it's been a rough few, um, the weeks, honestly, months. I don't know, because like the amount of chocolate that I've been consuming has been outrageous, and I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah. I'm just, I'm like dopamine mining, like I can't focus and I just want more chocolate, Yeah..

[00:23:37] So in the realm of kink, a lot of people you mentioned just assume porn, which is painful for a kinky person. Um, and not in the fun, painful way in the, uh, stereotypical cartoony. This isn't real kind of way. let just break down a little bit of the misconceptions that you frequently come across.

[00:24:01] Nyxie: Oh yeah, let's talk about that. Um, so one of the things that I, I heard, uh, Midori say the other day when I was talking to her. She's like, I love fast and furious movies, but I don't go to them for driving lessons. And it's the same with porn. You can like porn. I like porn, I've made porn. I like porn. Um, but I don't go to it for sex education, especially not anything related to breath play.

[00:24:26] Oh my God. Don't, do not. Um, so one of the misconceptions that you're gonna see is this femdom myth that there are these women in the world who are always like on, they're always, you know, goddess this or mistress that.

[00:24:45] They're always like that all the time. They're like infallible. They're on this pedestal. They want to hurt you. They wanna peg you, they wanna torture you. They want your cum tributes. They want, to just annihilate you emotionally and physically. And they don't want anything in return except for your service. Like a, like a shrimping, a toe sucking, or they wanna be a table, or they wanna be a hole for you to be a hole for them.

[00:25:12] Um, and that they don't want an orgasm. They don't wanna rest, they don't wanna be, uh, just a human being. Anytime they're just, you know, that femdom that comes in a box on a shelf, you know, they're always smooth and hairless and fit and beautiful and, um, they never have any needs other than to use you. And I find people who watch that kind of pornography will come to me and expect me to be that person. And I am not that person. I am never that person.

[00:25:45] And I don't think most people are. I think some people can be, if you're paying an hourly rate, there are plenty of people who are willing to be that femdom for you for a fee. And you should pay them if you want that experience. If you want that specific experience, pay a sex worker, pay a sex worker. If you want a romantic relationship where somebody is spending time with you because they like you and they wanna be with you, but you also want that dynamic of using and, service and you want that femdom thing, then you're gonna have to accept the whole person that comes with it.

[00:26:25] And that's going to mean that there are times where they don't wanna do that. That's gonna be, there are times where they have needs that can't be met by you just opening your butt. There's gonna be times where they want something more than what you've seen in porn. And if you're not prepared for that, if you don't wanna meet them at that level and be a partner, if that's, you know, outside of the dungeon or in the dungeon, if you're not willing to understand their humanity and accept that as part of the package, pay a sex worker.

[00:26:54] Um, there, that's my big speech. My big fucking, you know, soapbox that I'm gonna say on is if you want a really specific experience with a certain body type, a certain gender expression, a certain look, a certain demeanor. And you don't want their humanity to come into play at any point. You just want that cookie cutter porn capsuled experience.

[00:27:24] Pay a sex worker for that experience. Do not approach regular folks who don't do sex work and ask them to replicate a sex work experience for you. and then offer that they can use your, your ass, or they can sit on your face in exchange and make it transactional. That's gross. I hate that so much. If I never get another message like that again, I'll die happy.

[00:27:50] Being in my inbox, being like, I'd love to serve. I'm like, what kind of service are you offering me? And they're like, oh, well you can, you can sit on my face. I'm like, I have people to sit on their face already. I don't need yours. I don't even like you or know you. Why would I sit on your face? That's weird.

[00:28:06] We could get into a whole. A whole podcast episode about breath play and how damaging pornography has been to teaching, especially young people how to do breath play very, very wrongly.

[00:28:20] And it's illegal in California, so it's not allowed in any of our dungeons to even like obstruct the airway or simulate breath play at any, at any point. You cannot do a hand necklace. You cannot smother, you cannot step on someone's neck in the dungeons that I work in. You cannot do breath play in the dungeons that I work in, in California because we are so fucking serious about that.

[00:28:45] Um, and here's the thing. I enjoy breath play. I like it, but I also know it's way more dangerous than porn would lead you to believe. And the risk of stroke is very fucking real. So there's another thing I don't like about porn.

[00:29:05] Um, when, whenever somebody says that voyeurism is educational, whether that's through porn or just watching people play in a dungeon, there are certain things you might glean from porn or watching people in a dungeon play that might be valuable. However, thinking that just by watching other people's scenes that you know what it is that you understand, the entire capsule of that scene is dangerous.

[00:29:39] Because when you see two people playing in a dungeon or in porn, what you don't see is the dynamic. You don't see the humanity, you don't see the negotiation, you don't see the risk awareness. You don't see the risk mitigation, you don't see the aftercare. You don't see any of that. You see somebody getting hurt or used or whatever, and you see somebody else doing that hurting and using and whatever. That's all you are learning. There's, it's like the very tip of a iceberg that is just like miles deep underneath. So voyeurism has its value and it is also fun, but it is not an education.

[00:30:17] Gwyn: Yeah. no,

[00:30:19] Nyxie: Yeah. The National Coalition for Sexual Freedom actually has some really great articles about choking in the harms of choking that I recommend that everybody read it.

[00:30:27] Gwyn: yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And thank you for bringing that up. It's been a minute since I've mentioned that as well. I will put a link for that in here. So we talked about the capsule, we talked about some great misconceptions, power dynamics, you talk about ethical dominance, what should people be looking for if they're just sort of stepping their toes in and looking outside of a already structured partnership?.

[00:30:53] Nyxie: Well, I will say that like there's, again, and we get this idea from porn um, sometimes is that there's the difference between dominance and domineering. They're not the same thing. And so I'll usually use the terms D type and S type and D type by D type. I mean anybody who considers themself dom or master or owner or whatever up here, level that you wanna label and identify.

[00:31:24] And then s type for anything that's, you know, the person who's subjugated in the relationship, submissive, slave, pet property, whatever. And I will also say that like, it behooves us not to conflate dominance with topping and submission with bottoming. So let's. Just get rid of those rules 'cause they don't exist.

[00:31:51] You can be a dominant brat, you can be a submissive top, you can have dominant littles. Everybody seems to think that pups are all submissive. They're not, they're not. So let's just get rid of that idea. But yeah, we're talking about power, power dynamics, but one person's here, one person's here by choice and ethical dominance for me, and I think that's what you're asking me about, right?

[00:32:19] Um, I kind of tend to take the approach that all, all dynamic, especially dominance, is a caregiving role. And even if that caregiving takes the form of chaining somebody to a radiator and pouring, you know, a bucket of piss on them is still caregiving if that is what that person needs to receive care.

[00:32:43] . I might have lost the plot in that question a little bit.

[00:32:49] Do you wanna remind me what it was exactly? That was the target.

[00:32:53] Gwyn: Just ethical dominance in general. Um. I think you're doing great. And first of all, I, before we go on, I just want a sidebar that anybody who's had a three-year-old knows that you can be a little

[00:33:10] Nyxie: Yeah. Yep, yep.

[00:33:12] Gwyn: Christ.

[00:33:14] Nyxie: Yes. And I, I do have some bratty tendencies. I will bottom for certain things, but I am always dominant. I don't switch. I'm never submissive. Somebody called me a good girl. I'd gag and then put my clothes on and go home. Like, Ooh, no, that is just not what I'm about at all. However, um, to look, if you were to look with your eyes at what I'm doing with some of my partners, you might assume submission.

[00:33:43] You might assume that because I like to sometimes play the role of fuck doll that, that makes me submissive. It's not, it's not, certain acts are not inherently dominant acts or submissive acts that dominance and the submission is up here. It's not in what you're doing. Being on your knees doesn't make you submissive.

[00:34:06] Being on top doesn't make you dominant. Um, I think a lot of people might look at my dynamic with my partner Leah, and assume that because she does a great deal to take care of me. She always drives whenever we go somewhere, she always is like bringing me water, carrying my things. Like, some people might look at that and see submission and some people might look at that and see dominance. And some people, people might just look at our size difference and assume that she's the dominant partner. Um, nope, nope, she's a big marshmallow and she likes to get stepped on. So that is our dynamic.

[00:34:45] But for me, ethical dominance is really like engaging with people, who first of all have agency. I think taking on a submissive partner as a dominant, when you can recognize that they are in sub frenzy, they're way less experienced than you new. They don't have the chops, so to speak, to be getting into the shit that you're into. And they don't know what they don't know, but you do. You do know what they don't know.

[00:35:14] And to look the other way at that and be like, well, they're an adult and they can participate whatever they want. Oh. Hmm. That's when that agency shit comes into play, where if you are an ethical dominant, you're gonna be looking for submissives who have agency. And if they don't, then you have to say, this isn't gonna work for me because our experience levels are way off.

[00:35:39] There's too much inequity like this before we can even get into dynamic that it makes, that there's no power exchange. When one person has all the power and then they just get more. That's not a power exchange. That's power grab. So I like to start here with the adults that I play with, and then we play this.

[00:36:02] If we're already this and I take more and we get here, the possibilities for harm get massive and very, very fast and loose harm can still occur when there's consent. Harm can still occur when there's agency. However, I think there's a lot more propensity to harm when you start here and then make it bigger.

[00:36:26] And then the difference to me in like it's not the only difference, but it is a difference is that if we're already here when we start and then we do this and there is harm for this person to then say, well, you're an adult and you knew what you were getting into, instead of, oh, I harmed you. I'm so sorry.

[00:36:45] What can we do to repair? That is where you start to see patterns of abuse! And somebody who really shouldn't be in a dominant role because they are not accountable for even mistakes that they've made, let alone overt or direct harm. They're just gonna go, well, you're an adult and you knew what you were getting into and you know, you're the submissive so you have to do what I say is the dominant. Fuck all of that 100%.

[00:37:20] That's basically my whole ethical dominance class in a nutshell, is if you think that's okay, fuck you.

[00:37:26] Gwyn: I love

[00:37:30] Nyxie: Your garbage.

[00:37:32] Gwyn: you are actual carbon?

[00:37:34] Nyxie: I mean like total power exchange exists and CNC blanket consent relationships exist and 24 7 power dynamics exist and they are valid. But that is not something somebody who just got into kink and has never been in a kinky relationship should be participating in. Especially not with somebody who's 20 years older than and and has been doing this for, you know, decades. That is too much inequity for it to be ethical.

[00:38:03] Gwyn: So if someone is stepping, first of all, yes. Thank you. Fuck yes. If someone is stepping into a dominant role, if they're like, oh, this is exciting and I'm into it and I don't want to be garbage, what questions would you ask them to ask themselves? Like, how would you have them sit with that and make sure that they're doing what they can to be ethical?

[00:38:28] Nyxie: Oh yes. So I have this, uh, acquaintance that I strongly refer to many, many times in both people I recommend to other people. And in, conversations that I've had, this is Mischa Byruck of evolve.men, and Misha has a whole article you can find on Medium called Rolling Out the Red Carpet for No. And the premise of this article is that it should be an experience of joy to tell you no.

[00:38:57] So one of the things I like to cultivate as a human being, not just a dominant, but as a human being is am I someone that anyone can say no to without fear. Who can freely give me no as easily as they give me a yes? And if somebody feels like they cannot tell me something or cannot say no to me, then I need to work on that. I need to work on myself.

[00:39:25] I want people to be able to be like, no, Nyxie I don't wanna do that without any, like, is it okay if I say no? What's amazing to me is that when I'm house topping, which is when I provide the service of just giving people 10 minute tastings of impact or tickling at a party or an event.

[00:39:41] I will have people sign up for one of my house top shifts and when we're negotiating they'll say, is it okay if I don't want this or that? And I'm like, what do you mean? Is it okay? I'm here for you. I'm providing a service. We are not in dynamic. You don't have to call me anything. You don't have to do anything. We're not in dynamic. You just have to get this experience and enjoy it or not enjoy it. And tell me you didn't.

[00:40:05] It's always okay to hear a no and to be told a no. And to receive that no. And to just say thank you for your no. I feel so much better about how much I can trust you and your agency knowing that you feel comfortable saying no to me.

[00:40:21] So one of the things that if you're into dominance and you wanna be, you know, an authority figure in your relationships is you have to be okay with hearing no. You have to be okay with accepting no. And you have to be somebody who welcomes no. For people to feel safe enough to say it to you.

[00:40:42] Gwyn: I appreciate that and I will absolutely find that article and link it as well, because it sounds really great.

[00:40:48] Nyxie: it's great.

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[00:41:49] Gwyn: Like safe wording is it is now hit mass culture. Like they talked about it at The Simpsons, which just sort of blew my mind, frankly.

[00:41:57] Nyxie: my kids will say safe word when they're tickling and wrestling with each other, and I'm like, who taught you that? It wasn't me.

[00:42:06] Gwyn: Did it? Yeah. But, but it's, it's, it's a great term when people are doing it, right, right. And, and when it's useful and when you can trust yourself to safe word out because there are times when your own emotion, uh, I'm gonna speak for me. There have been times when my own emotions have gotten in the way of what I knew body was telling me, That can also be challenging, but having the awareness that it's there and feeling comfortable using it, right? So much like you wanna be able to accept a no, right? You wanna be able to accept a, oh, we need to stop now and not have it be a thing.

[00:42:54] Nyxie: That's absolutely true. Um, I know for me, I struggle to safe word because I don't want what I'm doing to end, and I'm not in a position where it's, it's like. Doing me emotional harm, but I do know that I need to do shit tomorrow. And if I don't safe word, I'm not gonna be able to do shit. I'm not gonna be able to go to the gym.

[00:43:14] I'm not gonna be able to get my work done. I'm not gonna be able to do my laundry if I don't safe word right now. And that's why I stop, not because I'm not enjoying it or because I wanna be done or I don't feel trust. I just know I got to, I got to, I have to use this body later. And what I can recover from as I get older is shifting.

[00:43:33] But what I will say is that like in Japanese kink culture, and this is not, I'm not speaking for an entire culture, I just wanna know, I just wanna impart what I have learned about Japanese kink culture is that the idea of using a safe word, um, or needing safe words is anathema because they believe that your dominant or top should be so aligned and in tune with you that you would never need to safe word.

[00:43:57] Because they would know before you needed to, that you needed to. And that's kind of cool. I don't know how it actually works in practice, but that's kind of a cool thought. And one of the things that I'm really proud of is that aside from safe wording or yellowing, you know, just not, I don't wanna stop, stop.

[00:44:16] I just need to do something different, related to things like, I'm gonna sneeze or I have a leg cramp, or this position's uncomfortable. For the most part, I can say with some assuredness that most of the really deep and intense scenes that I have done with close partners, I have known that they were about to yellow before they did.

[00:44:40] And sometimes I'll say, do you need to yellow? And they go, actually, yes. And I'm proud of myself for that because I'm really proud of the attunement that the two of us have reached where I am aware of that. I'm also proud of the fact that I have spent so much time with them that I have learned that when I see certain things, like their shoulders coming together or coming up here, that they're getting to their limits.

[00:45:06] When I see them standing on their toes, when I see them holding the breath, I'm like, you need a break, don't you? And they're like, I don't wanna take a break. And I'm like, but you need one. And if you won't take one, I'll make you take one.

[00:45:20] I do think that like, it's fun to do pickup play. It's fun to play with new people. It's fun to do, you know, stuff like that. But I really say that like when you're playing with somebody you never played before, you should really stay in the shallow end of the pool. And that it's worthwhile to pursue those deeper connections with people and really get into a place where you can take your time, really expand the container.

[00:45:46] Get deeper into the scene, get deeper into the head space, pace the scene until it's so, it's not such an overload that you make it short and very like truncated, but really get into that, that space where you know each other well enough and you know each other's bodies well enough that you can really dig deep and go places and have some really transformative kink that can be very, I'm not spiritual, but it feels very spiritual to some people.

[00:46:16] For me, it just makes me feel very aligned with my partners to take them where they wanna go. And you know, we ask questions when we negotiate about like what position and what technique and what tool and what do you wanna be, you know, called, you know, a dirty boy or a like bad girl or whatever.

[00:46:36] But the questions I like to ask when I'm negotiating, once I've gotten all those nuts and bolts out of the way, is I wanna ask people. Who do you want to be in this scene? Who are you? Who am I? Where do you wanna go? Do you wanna be deeply planted into your body so that you feel all the things that you don't feel on a daily basis?

[00:46:57] You wanna feel your whole body and then I, or do you wanna leave your body and go to outer space and go on a little journey? and then how do you wanna feel? How do you need this scene to make you feel? And I can't promise that you will, but if I have a goal to steer towards, then I can try. Um, and those to me are the three most important questions when I'm negotiating scenes and dynamics is, who do you wanna be in this dynamic or scene?

[00:47:23] How do you wanna feel? Where do you wanna go? Cause that really gives me a direction as a top and a dominant to point in where I'm not just like going through the motions of inflicting pain. I'm really like. Like applying it the same way that a massage therapist applies pressure to knots and adhesions and really just like finding zeroing in on where the thing that you need is and either releasing it or capturing it.

[00:47:56] Gwyn: You've got a bunch of things coming up. Tell us about some of the classes that you are offering soon, and then just in general.

[00:48:04] Nyxie: Oh my gosh. So if you, um, if you want online classes, the next couple of online classes that I'm offering, uh, May 6th, I'll be with Venusian Society on Zoom and I'll be teaching my Beginners Impact gear guide, which is what I'm gonna teach you, what toys that you might like to buy based on how easy they are to use, how easy they are to clean, how affordable they are. How storable they are, how, how you can use them with multiple partners, or if some certain toys are single partner toys. That's gonna be a fun class.

[00:48:38] Then the following weekend I'll be teaching an online class for Boy Ed called Filthy Mouth Wicked Words, where I draw upon my years as a phone sex operator to teach people how to be less awkward when they talk dirty and even include just embracing that awkwardness.

[00:48:56] Uh, then coming up I will be at Bonobo, uh, Fest, the Play Bonobo Fest, and I will be teaching my covert public humiliation class for that event that's gonna be in the Yosemite Valley area in California on Memorial Day weekend. I teach a monthly impact class in San Francisco, California on the fourth Tuesday of the month called Spank Jam, uh, which is a demo and workshop format.

[00:49:20] Then coming up for this summer, I am going to be doing TES Fest in New Jersey and Piscataway. Uh, the 4th of July weekend, and I'm teaching several classes there, including Trans-Affirming Impact, sadistic Tickle Torture, 200 Level, um, and a couple others. And then I will be the following weekend at the Boundless Retreat teaching the first sadistic tickle torture class and, uh, my expansive cuck holding for queers.

[00:49:48] Uh, you can always find me on FetLife Instagram, my link tree, and then I have my Patreon where you get all kinds of behind the scenes on things like, uh, unboxing gear that I've been sent from makers, either that I ordered or they have gifted. To me, you get to know kind of my travel exploits, um, and you get to see processes like how I go from a concept to a costume, to a photograph, to artwork, and then finally to the stickers that I pass out at all of my events and how we go through that whole entire process.

[00:50:21] you'll get to read beta runs of my fiction novel and also my, um, agency workbook is going to be expanding into a much more significantly sized workbook. Um, think of that book Unfuck Your Boundaries or Unfuck Your Intimacy. It's gonna be really similar to that. We're gonna talk about agency and you get to vote in on like what you wanna see covered, or maybe you get to name some of the fiction characters in my book that's coming up if you join the Patreon. And then in general, link Tree is, well, you'll find the most up to date stuff about where I am, where I'm teaching, what I'm doing, and then I've got a website like, you know, everybody has to have a website, but it's really just, it's just there because people are like, what's your website?

[00:51:02] So that's a lot.

[00:51:06] Gwyn: Amazing. Uh, amazing, all that. And you also have a life I am impressed.

[00:51:15] Nyxie: Uh, do I.

[00:51:16] Gwyn: Oh,

[00:51:17] Nyxie: aren't my plants. I didn't grow these plants because I have such a life doing all this kinky shit that if I had a plant, it would be a very sad brown plant.

[00:51:26] Gwyn: Fair.

[00:51:26] Nyxie: I cannot be in charge of plants. That's just too much for me.

[00:51:30] Gwyn: That's

[00:51:30] Nyxie: That's, these are my spouse's plants. It's,

[00:51:33] Gwyn: Your spouse has a lovely green thumb.

[00:51:37] Nyxie: he is the string to my kite. I couldn't be doing any of the things that I do without him. Um, holding down the fort.

[00:51:44] Gwyn: yeah.

[00:51:45] Nyxie: Yeah.

[00:51:45] Gwyn: well, I like to end my podcast by asking one final question, which is Nyxie Noc What excites you?

[00:51:54] Nyxie: I am so excited by learning about how the brain relates to pain stimulus and how that pertains to kink and how masochism is a socially connective thing that I wish I could start all over in my twenties and go to college just to learn all about that. Because I'm so excited about the social and neurological connections to sadism and masochism and, um, part of my Patreon is that I meet every other week with my Patreon subscribers to discuss nonfiction texts on kink.

[00:52:36] And so starting April 25th, we are going to begin with chapter one of Hurt So Good by Lake Howard. And we're gonna read about the neuroscience and social aspects of masochism from that amazing book. My copy is annotated to shit and has about a million little sticky tabs in it because it's just, it's a transformative book.

[00:52:56] And to read that and, and talking to people like Brad Sagerin and I'm like, man, if I could do every, if I had a million dollars, this is exactly what I would be doing right now, is just going to every class I could to learn about how pain and the brain work and how we can like, play with that. So that excites me.

[00:53:15] Gwyn: That's super cool.

[00:53:18] Nyxie: Nerd. I'm like, science?

[00:53:20] Gwyn: Oh, that's so good. I think that may be one of the best answers I've ever had.

[00:53:27] Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. They are so good. Please go follow Nyxie Noc in any of the places that you would like to follow them.

[00:53:35] If you would like a copy of the agency workbook or any of the other things that Nixey mentioned, please go to their link tree. It's in the show notes. They are Vidiri Lux Consulting. You can also find them on FetLife and Instagram and on their website, and I'm just gonna put it in the show notes. But you can also search Nyxie Noc, N-Y-X-I-E N-O-C. But please go find them. They are amazing. If you have questions that you would like to ask Nyx or actually any of my guests, please come to whatexcitesus.com and let me know.

[00:54:12] Thanks so much for listening to what excites us. I truly appreciate it. Please come find me. Tell me what you think, and if you think this episode is good or any of the episodes are good. Share it with a friend. I know it might be a little awkward if that's the case, you can simply give us a review. The key is to get us out there into the world so more people feel less ashamed and we can have a better world.

[00:54:40] Because when you are not hurting, you don't hurt other people as much. Thank you so much for listening. I deeply appreciate it. And remember, you are awesome. You really, really are.