What Excites Us!

Episode 18 - Relationship and Romance Expert Alicia Davon

Transcript:

Gwyn 0:00
This episode is for adults only, please.

I was just looking at my notes. I have no idea what's the next question was. [laughing] Oh my goodness.

Hello, and welcome to What Excites Us!, the show that discusses sex and sexuality throughout time and place, including the here and now. My name is Gwyn Isaacs, I am a certified sex coach and educator. And today I'm sharing a conversation I had with Alicia Davon. Alicia, along with her husband Erwan, work to support singles in getting into passionate and successful relationships, as well as helping couples take their relationships to new heights of romance and intimacy. Based in the San Francisco Bay Area, Alicia and Erwan provide a high end boutique service that gives their clients and effective way to enhance their relationships.

They offer all of their coaching and classes online and support students all over the world. Today we are talking about extended orgasm, what it is and how to do it. Some ways to bring the spicy back into your relationship with things fall flat, whether that's from parenting or other concerns. And some strategies for when you and your honey have a mismatched libido. It's a great conversation full of strategies that you can start using right away.

Speaking of strategies, I have an exciting announcement. Well, I think it's exciting anyway, part of what I want to do with this podcast is foster community around sex and sexuality. And Shahn, you may remember Shahn from several episodes, has kindly offered to admin a Discord server for us. So now we have a new perk and Patreon. If you join us there at any level, you can also join us in discord and we can have actual conversation where I will get to hear well read mostly your thoughts too. And back and forth, it can be really fun. So please visit whatexcitesus.com to click the link and become a patron today.

Leah Carey 2:40
Hey friends, I'm Leah Carey inviting you to listen to Good Girls Talk About Sex, where I interview everyday women about their sex lives.

Speaker 1 2:49
You know, I want to be like pushed against the wall. Like in the movies.

Speaker 2 2:53
This feels good. But do I look fat

Speaker 3 2:55
That was turned me on. But I don't think I've admitted that to my husband

Speaker 4 2:58
Have sex with women, highly recommend

Leah Carey 3:00
Good Girls Talk About Sex is here to remind you, you're not alone. And your desires are completely normal. Listen in your favorite podcast app today.

Gwyn 3:13
Hi, Alicia, thanks for coming on. Why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself and introduce yourself to the folks?

Alicia Davon 3:19
Sure. Well, thanks for having me. I'm really happy to be here. Let's see what can I tell you? I run a school with my husband. His name is Erwan. He founded the organization 30 years ago, and I've been working with him for 20 years since we met. And we support both singles and couples and having rocking romantic lives and sex lives. And so that's what we do. I mean, we can get more into what we do if you have questions. I have a master's in psychology. I've been studying people and relationships since I was probably a teenager just so interested in love and sex and relationships and everything. So luckily, I found a purpose and a passion in what I do for work, which I really love.

Gwyn 4:08
Are you one of those of us who everybody came to all organically to ask random sex questions and relationship questions.

Alicia Davon 4:16
Totally. I remember one of my best friends in high school, her name is Emily. And she sat in front of me in our science class. And she was always like she and I were always passing notes to remember this is before any of us had smartphones or anything. And so we pass notes and she'd be like, this happened with my boyfriend and I'd write whatever. And yeah, I was always super into it.

Gwyn 4:40
Yeah, it's funny how we managed to find a way to make that work for us and for others. In the field. When I discovered that this could actually be a profession. I was like, Oh my gosh, yay!

Alicia Davon 4:53
Yes.

Gwyn 4:54
So I was looking at your information. And one of the things that I noticed was you talk about polarity in your programs, and I'm wondering if you guys have some Tantra background, if that's where that language comes from?

Alicia Davon 5:05
Yeah. Erwan studied Tantra way before I even met him kind of the classical methods. And he was into psychology and was the director of a yoga ashram and lived in a Zen monastery. So he was always very much into the sex and the spirit and bringing that together. And I have never formally studied Tantra, but tons with Erwan. And we teach it together. And we have a unique approach to Tantra. We have a signature sensual technique called extended orgasm, which is a clitoral stroking technique. And it you know, people are often like, how is this different from Tantra are similar to Tantra. And there's a lot of overlap in terms of focusing on the breath and the spiritual connection and moving the energy through the body and the channels. And there's also an aspect to it that's more Western, you could say. Like, there's a technique and there's, there's clinical signs of extended orgasm, and all sorts of things that we incorporate as well.

Gwyn 6:10
Tell us about extended orgasm.

Alicia Davon 6:12 [Laughs] Extended orgasm is the best, and it is why I'm here. So a little bit of background is that... So when I way before I met Erwan, I was always into sex, you know, I was lucky enough in high school to have positive sexual experiences. And my first time was really great with my high school sweetheart, and that kind of thing. And my parents were, you know, not necessarily liberals, you know, they're pretty conventional. But they're also open minded. And they were pretty cool about about sex, they didn't talk about it much, you know, but they were they, you know, I could kind of do what I wanted, when I was home and with boyfriends and stuff. So I had this really nice background of curiosity and exploration, and every relationship I was in was kind of, you know, sex centric, you know, I was we were really into sex together, as well as whatever else. And when I was studying in my master's program, I was going to be a therapist. And I was finding myself really drawn to learning about female psychology and how that comes together with sexuality. And I went to a holistic studies school. And so it was very open. But even then, there was one human sexuality class. That's it. And I would hold myself up in the library, like looking through the stacks and stacks of books, trying to find stuff that was kind of modern about female sexuality, and I couldn't really find much.

And then a woman who was my best friend in the program, her name is Shana. She said, Hey, Alicia, there's this guy named Erwan. And he teaches these classes. And he has this technique that he teaches singles and couples called extended orgasm. And like, okay, take me to this guy. Like I want to know [laughs] what is going on here. And so long story short, he and I started dating and I started experiencing this extended orgasm thing, which I'll tell you what it is.

So it's a clitoral stroking technique, the way that we teach it, it can totally be done on a penis owner as well. But we focus on clitoral stroking for a variety of reasons which I can get into if you want me to. And it's basically creating, like the really great circumstance and situation for let's say, a woman is being stroked to totally relax, and be relaxed enough and aroused enough that her body involuntarily goes into a state of orgasm, like a continual state of release and pleasure. Ordinarily, what we think of as orgasm is like a climax, which is really fun and great, and it lasts maybe 10 seconds or something like that, maybe sometimes a little shorter or a little longer. And it's kind of like an event, you know, that is that short period of time and we build towards it. And sometimes we kind of tense to get there, we're just really focused on the goal. And that's not a bad thing. But what we've discovered in our research is that our bodies actually have the potential when relaxed enough and aroused enough, like really involuntarily, just release and that pleasure starts rolling through our bodies over time. So it goes from being a 10 second event to a state that your body is in. And the clitoral stroking technique is a very optimal situation to have that happen in although you can learn to how to have it in your body so much so that you just are in that state during other sex acts or even as you're walking around.

Gwyn 10:06
When you said 10 seconds, I thought if you're lucky, yeah.[both laugh] The next thought was, it's probably really good for your body to be able to release all of that tension in an extended amount of time, as opposed to the just quick, up and down. There are so many different types of orgasm, even anticlimactic orgasms, but what you're describing sounds very pleasant to say the least, if you don't mind, tell us how you do it.

Alicia Davon 10:37
Yes, I will share as much as you want me to share, you said it sounds pleasant. And that is really what it is. I mean, sometimes when people hear extended orgasm, like being in a state of orgasm for for minutes, you know, oh, I would like die, that would be so tiring, or that would be too intense or something like that. And really what extended orgasm is meant to be is very natural. Our bodies are relaxed. During extended orgasm. Instead of often we tense to get to the orgasm, and we're working really hard and kind of squeezing and all of these things that again, no judgment, it's not bad, right?

Basically what you want to do, let's say I'll give a couple of examples. Like one example for people who might be single or maybe wanting to explore this themselves, even if you're in a relationship, right, like self pleasure. Now, when you go to self pleasure, and to explore extended orgasm, the first thing you want to do is handle your head, you basically want to tell yourself, I'm going to enjoy myself, I'm going to have a pleasure orientation, I don't need to get anywhere, I don't need to have some like extended orgasm, that's going to be in the Guinness Book of World Records. Like take all the pressure off and get into a comfortable position.

And if you know self pleasure, often you'll know what that position is. If you're new to self pleasuring, you might take some time get yourself comfortable, prop your your knees up with pillows, you know, butterfly or legs open. Use lube. Use lube! some people are like I should lube up really naturally. Or if you're a woman or vulva owner, no, it's even if you do just use lube. It's It's good, right? And we have a particular kind of lube we like it doesn't have a name our, one of our students makes it I can send you the link if you want. But it's made of shea butter, beeswax and olive oil. It's not to be used for latex, but it's great, it's viscous, and then just put a small amount on your finger. And then a really fun way to start self pleasuring is also you can have a mirror in front of your genitals if you want to look and see what's happening. And if you don't want to do that you don't have to.

And just start stroking your genitals including your clitoris in a way that feels good. So this is like exploratory. And then a rhythmic stroke is good to get into so you can start to bring your arousal up. Sometimes, you know, ultimately, I wouldn't rely on fantasy to in this situation. But if you like to use a little sprinkle of fantasy to get yourself going, that's fine. And then with your genitals often we pull in, we tense, right? Like everybody who's listening, you can kind of tense your genitals and you can feel like wow, this is familiar, I kind of walk around the world this way, right? You know, because way back when we were being potty trained, you know, we get these, we could just get conditioned like hold it in. But when you're in that situation, instead, push your genitals out. So like you're bearing down or going number two are having a baby, but a gentle push out.

It's but it's in that direction as you're stroking and just notice how that feels and really pay attention to the point of contact between your finger and your genitals know your finger and your clitoris. Some vulva owners feel that their clitoris when touched directly, it's like too sensitive. You can do it through the hood. You can experiment with slower, firmer pressure and that kind of helps with the sensitivity sometimes. So you just want to be relaxed, stroke yourself, push out, feel what you feel and celebrate with whatever you're feeling. So that's how to get started. When you're doing this on your own. Any questions about that or anything, before I go on to the doing this with a partner?

Gwyn 15:08
I was just thinking that some women might want to start over their labia too, because some, some folks are just very, very sensitive. But

Alicia Davon 15:17
Yes, and I love that! You want to start with what feels good, you don't want to have rules, or just tell your inner critic, you know, that voice that's in our head telling us what to do and just tell it to shut up and go away. At least for 10, 15, 20 minutes you're doing this. Yeah. And then if you're in a partnership, and you're kind of like, Ooh, I'm curious, I want to try this extended orgasm thing, you would do a very similar thing, but together. So let's say, you know, this practice can be done with two men, two women, a man and a woman, let's just use the example of a man and a woman and the woman having her clitoris stroked, okay. So the man can sit up by her side. And then the woman just lay down, get super comfortable, you know, prop your knee up with a pillow, lay your other knee kind of on his legs.

We have pictures and videos and things as part of a members page when you're in our program. So there's lots of resources for people that want it. But you basically want to start as the stroker. You don't want to go right to the clitoris or right to the genitals, you might want to start with some nice and a massagey strokes on her thighs and maybe even start with one hand on her heart, and one hand on her abdomen, and you just kind of breathe and get connected and kind of make your way with a nice sensual touch. And then fast forward to when you're actually stroking, use lubricant and just explore, going much more slowly than you think. You know, sometimes when we go to stroke somebody's genitals, men and women, we're kind of like, going fast, and we're sort of nervous, and we want to get them off and have them feel good.

So, the name of the game is presence, and feeling each stroke and you can use some rhythm and, and communicate, which is a whole other topic. Many people might be like, I don't know how to communicate in the bedroom. How are we supposed to say what we want, but, you know, a good thing to do is just say what is feeling good. And then if you want something different, you can ask for that. And I'll stop there because there's a lot to extend an orgasm, but the the essence of it is really enjoyment and presence and feeling and not excluding the sex center. I mean, that's sexy, having your genitals stroked, but you want to be present while it's happening.

Gwyn 18:02
So it sounds to me like, okay, so a lot of people, a lot of people, I [laughs] have just we just own this as a climbing up a mountain and then falling off. It sounds to me that this is more of a pleasant walk continually up the mountain and seeing what there is to see. And being really centered and focused in that time of pleasure.

Alicia Davon 18:31
Definitely, if you imagine a it's really like a dome. You know, if you imagine a quick up and down and how you're talking about. You, you climb up and you fall off. That's a traditional peak orgasm, what people normally think of as orgasm or climax. Not bad, but it's not the potential of what we can feel. When you're exploring extended states of pleasure, it's slow, it's big, it's high. It's longer. It's like a big dome shaped experience. And actually, in terms of the amount of sensation and let go and bliss, it can be much bigger and broader. You just take your time getting there and your body is so relaxed, that you feel much more.

Gwyn 19:23
Yeah, when we're teenagers and when we're first exploring sex and hormones, which are raging all the time, and all we want to do is have intense orgasms. And then as we get older, we (some of us) start to shift and recognize that maybe that isn't the only goal to sex.

Alicia Davon 19:42
Mmm hmm

Gwyn 19:43
It sounds like this is a really useful tool when you start to come to that conclusion. And/or better yet, a way to approach that without feeling let down first, so a lot of penis owners, for instance, get to that place because suddenly their penises isn't working. working the way that they used to, or women are experiencing different changes, because women experience all sorts of different changes. Cis and trans women experience all sorts of crazy changes when our hormones start shifting. So having this in your toolbox before you get there, sounds wonderful. So I love that you're teaching this. So thank you.

Alicia Davon 20:23
Yeah, you're welcome. And I'm glad that you mentioned that because the extended orgasm practice is a really great practice in and of itself. It's fun, and it's exploratory. And it's also really useful in those kinds of situations. Like you said, there are so many reasons why penis owners, vulva owners both, like maybe, just because they're not in the mood for intercourse, or there's a issue or there's a whatever. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing, you know, many couples find themselves in a situation where, you know, maybe they've been together for a bunch of years, or they've had kids or they're kind of wrapped up in their job. So they're getting older, and their bodies are having issues, whatever, they just stop having sexual activity, if intercourse is the only thing on the menu. But extended orgasm is, I mean, we've we've worked with people in their 70s. And they've had all those changes that happen to our bodies, but they learned extended orgasm, and suddenly they had this amazing sex life, you know, and then it can also be a stepping stone to other sex acts.

If you're kind of like, well, you know, I've been doing the dishes and dealing with the kids and all this all day, I'm not ready to like, jump in and have intercourse. But maybe if we do some touching and some extended orgasm practice, and not as foreplay necessarily, but you're warmed up, and maybe you'll be in the mood for more.

Gwyn 21:48
And you did mention that the technique can work with penis owners too, would it be centered on the frenulum for that, or is it the whole penis, that one would stroke,

Alicia Davon 21:57
It would be the whole penis, it does not need to center on the frenulum. And the similarity between the two is the rhythm, the feeling, the stroking, the receiver, in this case would be the penis owner, can really relax and push the genitals out. And so there's a lot of similarity.

And when a person learns how to have extended orgasm in their own body, then they're much better at giving it too, so it's really fun to give and receive. And also, you know, we find that manual stimulation when the vulva owner is the receiver is kind of nice because the index finger has the most dexterity over anything, you know, I would like way rather have Erwan stroking on my clitoris and orally pleasuring me if I had to choose right? Luckily, I don't have to choose. But when we find a lot of people enjoy when they're giving pleasure to the penis owner. Oral can be just as effective as manual. So it's, there's a lot in there. But yes, it's totally possible for all.

Gwyn 23:10
Excellent. Well, so much of oral also includes using the hands because nobody's mouth is actually that, you know, long [both laughing]

Alicia Davon 23:19
Exactly!

Gwyn 23:23
I wish I hadn't had that penis question. But it was really important to me to get in there. Because what you were talking about a moment ago would have segues great into this question, which is some ideas for bringing chemistry back, I saw that that was something that you guys talk about. So tell us a little bit about what your thoughts are on that.

Alicia Davon 23:39
There are a variety of reasons why couples lose that chemistry, passion, yummy romantic vibe. It is by far, the biggest reason that couples come and work with us, you know, sometimes couples will be like just fine otherwise, you know, like great and firing on all cylinders, except that area and they're kind of like ah help! And other couples are kind of like communication is struggling and other things and that's affecting their sex life. So you could be in any position on the spectrum in that regard. So there's a lot of reasons why couples will often experience mismatched libido like one person's got the sex drive, and they want it the other person doesn't. And then there's this conflict and then you either ignore the conflict, or you fight about it, or you go outside the marriage in a way that doesn't really work and you know, that kind of thing. So reasons why, first of all, there can be biological issues like injury or hormonal changes or something that affects one or both people's libido. There can be relational issues, like maybe there's an issue in the relationship that's moving the couple apart from each other that needs to be dealt with. There's distraction and lifestyle, right? Like we're chained to our devices, people are overworking more than ever these days, we're pulled in so many different directions.

And then we can kind of like forget about that yummy romantic vibe that was so central in the beginning, or we can avoid it. Sometimes it's just a matter of not really having the skills like there was chemistry for free in the beginning, because it's novel, and this person is new to you. And then when it naturally kind of drifts, you don't really know how to get it back. Right? So those are all like examples of reasons why. So if people are listening, and you've had decreased chemistry, or your sex life isn't what it used to be like, it's okay. Most people are in that situation. Now, the way to start to bring the chemistry back.

The first step is to acknowledge the problem. Sometimes we skip over that, right? Like, we're both kind of thinking about it or one person is, but just to say, in a loving way, hey, I miss you, I noticed our vibe was in isn't what it could be. Or like, I want to have more sexy time with you. Right? You know, there's all sorts of all sorts of ways to say it. But to bring it up in a positive way, that's not like blamey, you're way more likely to be heard.

Then the next step would be, well, finding out if both of you are interested in increasing the chemistry, right? 'Cause some people might just prefer to avoid it. Most people really do want it. But just making sure you're on the same page. Once you are carving out time and space, to have what I like to call pleasure time with each other. And it doesn't need to be like 'and you have sex every time' in the pleasure time, right? Because like I said before, one person might resist that, or you might not feel like that, but you'd love to exchange massages. Or Erwan and I have developed a set of 12 touching practices that couples can do that range from like, hand on heart, hand on abdomen, kind of loving touch all the way to extended orgasm and everything in between.

So, but you want to have time. Erwan and I on our calendar we have every weekday morning at 9:15 is our pleasure time, like we it's literally in my calendar. And then we have a couple of other times during the week we do kind of we call it psychological inquiry, which is kind of sharing our feelings and things like that. You don't have to carve out daily, some couples are like, I have no time for that carve out once a week, twice a week, at least half hour, 45 minutes, then you'll have the time.

Then what to do during that time. You know, I mentioned these touching practices, I wouldn't use that time for like, let's watch Netflix. Netflix is great. I watch Netflix. But the pleasure time is really for you guys. And there are certain practices that Erwan and I teach our students like psychological inquiry, sensual practice, things you can do together that are kind of structured that help you communicate or get touch in, you can practice the extended orgasm technique, there's so many things you can do. And then just stick to that.

And then if you want to, you know, you could learn like if you were to work with us, for example, learn skills of touching and sensual practice and extended orgasm, that'll take it even further. It's kind of nuts and bolts, like very practical, but that would be what I would recommend for people.

Gwyn 28:53
I uh frequently advise people to put date night on the calendar and make it a priority, get a babysitter do the thing that you need to do. Because if you don't prioritize your relationship, then it ends up falling to the wayside. And then you end up in a situation where you're looking at each other. Like we used to have a thing what happened to the thing.

Alicia Davon 29:14
Right. I've never seen anybody where there was an actual physical, you know, something's wrong with them physically, chemistry wise, right? It's always mental, emotional, like the chemistry is there. If you put two bodies together and there's not our minds getting in the way most of them will be turned on towards each other so you can get that back.

Gwyn 29:34
So tell me about the five keys to a successful relationship?

Alicia Davon 29:39
Sure. So we have developed over the last 25 years. A method is called the Davon method that we use to support all singles and couples in your goals and your challenges that you have romantically and sexually. So there's five parts to it and they are the five keys to having a successful relationship life. So the first part is consciousness, consciousness of our hidden relationship patterns that we all bring into relationships. So we both have backgrounds in psychology. And we've grown enough personally and professionally to know that most relationship issues, you know, they stem from our psychology, our conditioning, what we learned from our parents, and difficult situations that we were in when we were young, and traumas and conditioning from the culture and blah, blah, all of that stuff.

We all have it, and we unknowingly bring it into our relationships. And then it you know, it limits us really, so bringing consciousness to Oh, wow. Yeah, like I look at you, and I automatically don't trust you. Why is that? You know, and you can, oh, wow, like I had this experience with dad or this experience with my girlfriend in high school or whatever, you start to see how that's affecting you. So that you can be free from that not have that driving you.

So that's the first part. Second part is contact with your deepest self. So that can have many names. It's the you the real you beyond your mind. And beyond your conditioning, you could call it your your soul, or your spirit, or a religious name, or whatever speaks to you. When you have that kind of awareness of your patterns in that contact with yourself, it creates a really nice foundation to then be able to learn and actually be with somebody as you are.

The third one is chemistry. So then we can get into the polarity, the masculine, feminine, dynamic, and how to communicate with your partner in a way that they can hear and how to build chemistry, all that stuff.

The fourth part is called choreography, which is learning to dance through the stages of relationships successfully. So that's all about learning different skills and relationship like flirting and seduction, and how to turn the person on and communication and commitment and all sorts of things.

The fifth part is cultivation of your sexual potential. That is where we really support people in accessing their sex center and their vital energy and learning skills such as extended orgasm.

Gwyn 32:32
And you're running this as a program coming up.

Alicia Davon 32:35
We have a variety of programs, we found over the years that people learn really well, when they have a group situation to learn in, like a class, and also private one on one attention, so that and then also practices to practice on their own. So that's the full program, but people can pick and choose. Our main offering is called mastery of relationship, which is a really fun, weekly online experience with a group of dedicated students learning all of these skills. And a lot of people like to start with a smaller bite, which is the pleasure course, that's a one time weekend online course. And in that course, we dive deeply into the five keys for a successful relationship. So you know, you learn all about your own conditioning, and you make contact with yourself. And we practice meditation, and you learn about all these skills. And we include extended orgasm in there. So you'll actually get to see a video demonstration of the clitoral stroking technique that I was talking about we were discussing earlier. So that's a really good place to start. We have one coming up May 21, and 22nd online.

Gwyn 33:53
How would people find that?

Alicia Davon 33:54
So I'll give you the link to it. So it can be in the show notes. And we have a website, which is pleasurecourse.com. So that's a really great place to go if you want to find that and read about our other programs. And then for people that feel like they want to talk to me and tell me, you know, Hey, these are my goals. And what do you recommend, or you just want to find out more, you can text our school at 415-308-9580. And there's also a link you can click to set that call up if you prefer.

Gwyn 34:32
This work seems so deep. Much deeper than a whole lot of other things that I've seen, and that it could really be transformative for some people, but I think it might also be a bit intense for some people. Do you find that some people are like, Oh, this is a little too much.

Alicia Davon 34:50
Yes, it will. It's a very tender and sensitive area and people have varied appetites for these things right? Like some people come to work with us, and they're like, extended orgasm, I don't know, like, but give me the relationship stuff like I want communication support, I want to learn how to create a successful relationship. Great. You know, some people are like, give me the sex, I want to learn techniques, you know, so we can do that it really is. The pleasure course is, I don't really like to call it a taster or an introduction, because it goes so much deeper than that. But it really is kind of like that, you know, if you're curious, and you're like, Okay, I don't know about extended orgasm. But that's on the second day for a portion, right? You don't even need to be there for that if you don't want. But it's nice to get exposure to these things because it can be confronting, but we also tend to have somewhere a desire for more pleasure. And it's a very safe space. You know, we've been doing this for a long time. And we like to handhold people through the process. So it's digestible.

Gwyn 35:57
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. I imagine that these days, you were doing these programs online. [laughs]

Alicia Davon 36:06
Everything is online, we were we were transitioning some to online before the pandemic, and then when the pandemic hit, we're like, Alright, here we go. [laughs] It's great. You know, we get to work with people all over the country and outside of the country. So anybody can do it, you know, just piped into their living room. It's fun.

Gwyn 36:25
Do you expect to be bringing in person back at any time? Or are you not thinking about that yet?

Alicia Davon 36:31
We have brought in a few in person, things were mean. But they're mostly we do these live demonstrations of extended orgasm quarterly in San Francisco. So we have been doing those, those are really fun. And we're doing, I think, one kind of evening event and a couple of months, but, and people can come in for private coaching if they live in the area. But besides that, I think we're we're going to stay online. It's working really well for us.

Gwyn 36:58
That's fantastic. I wanted to real quick, go back and talk about folks with mismatched libido, if you don't mind, because that comes up so often. And a lot of times we hear well, it just defaults to the person with the less libido. And I don't think that it has to be that way. What are your thoughts on that?

Alicia Davon 37:19
Well, it's a delicate issue, because sex is a delicate issue. And not all of us, but most of us have some hang ups, or at least some you know, some insecurities, or it's like, can be a little touchy. Okay, so I'm saying that because when there becomes a conflict in the relationship, you know, one person's like, I just, you know, I don't, I don't want to, I don't feel like it, I'm tired or, and then the other person is trying to get it from them, it can become a power struggle. And then it becomes so much less about the sexual interaction that wants to happen and more about, okay, I'm going to get my way and I'm going to get my way and it just turns into a thing.

So I really, you know you can't push anybody to do what they what they don't want to do, you know, I'm not recommending that the person with the lower libido, like, just get with it, you know, do it, you know, I would never say that. But I do recommend an openness. Okay, we have a five and a half year old, and I work with a lot of parents. And there's that thing where you know, sex goes out the window for a while. And then if you don't address it, it kind of stays there. So it's really normal for let's say, the person who just had the baby to be like, I'm exhausted and like my genitals hurt from the birth and the like, maybe you could be open to doing some non genital sensual touch just hand on heart and abdomen, like maybe you could be open to that, you know, and the person with the higher libido can really be open to Okay, what does my partner want? Let me detach myself from the idea of like, hot wild intercourse every night, you know, let me see what he or she wants, how do they want to be touched?

So I really recommend an openness and coming together. Because I believe that everybody, if they are touched in the way they want to be touched, they will want to be touched more, you know, so it's a give and take. But I think openness on both and like just taking it out of the power struggle territory.

Gwyn 39:26
It's true, our sex and our lives gets so intertwined, that it's hard to separate them and get to the core of what's actually going on, right, just having a baby, the feeling of being touched out is so real. And so for a lot of folks that are like I just don't want to be touched well, you can still find connections and other ways.

Alicia Davon 39:49
Yeah. And there's gonna be a time when your kids or kids are like, older, you know, and you're not you don't want to Have, I mean if you're interested in having a turned on relationship, not a should. But if you're interested in that, you don't want to unconsciously adjust to a new normal, like you said earlier, like, oh, the kids are, you know, nine and 12. And they don't really need us. And now it's sort of awkward. No, keep the thread of connection, just adjust it. And so is that part of what you talk about when you're in, you're bringing sex back after parenting?

We have a free online talk coming up in a couple of weeks, five easy ways parents can make room for romance, that that is one of the main things is you want to carve out pleasure time, and it doesn't have to be sexual, you want to take the pressure off, but you want to address it, you don't want it because it's going to build, you know, resentment builds and disconnection builds. And if you want the kind of relationship that really has that romantic vibe, you, you just have to put in, you have to put in the effort. And it doesn't mean you do something you don't want to sexually it just means moving through that whatever it is like awkwardness or apathy, or what's that word inertia? I'm not saying it's comfortable.

I mean, even with Erwan and me, you know, I mean, we have had these practices. I mean, when we had our son, we're like, oh, yeah, we're totally prepared. Because we had worked with all these couples, then he came and we're like, Oh, my God! This is so intense! Like, like, I didn't know I was gonna be like, exhausted and not want to be touched and all this stuff. But we luckily had these practices. And we're like, okay, let's double down. What do we need to do? I recommend doing that. Because it's for the relationship. And oh, and I guess the point I was making is, even sometimes we probably don't feel like it beforehand, right? I mean, I'm playing on my computer and trying to get everything done. And bleh and then it's like, 9:15, and I'm like, Oh, God, you know, but I know it's going to be amazing. So you just kind of have to make yourself in that way.

Gwyn 40:33
Isn't that funny. That's one of the things that just life teaches us that sometimes you just have to get up and do the thing.

Alicia Davon 42:10
Yes! Exercise, meditation, connection and your relationship. It's okay to feel resistance and do it anyways for the greater good.

Gwyn 42:20
Because you will, in fact, once you get going, tend to enjoy and you know, as Emily Nagoski pointed out in "Come As You Are" sometimes you have to be touched first before you feel sensual or sexual that

Alicia Davon 42:34
Yes.

Gwyn 42:35
That's just what happens sometimes.

Alicia Davon 42:37
Such a great book.

Gwyn 42:39
Is there anything else that you would like to get out there before we wrap up?

Alicia Davon 42:43
Gosh, I mean, you can find us on Instagram at Davon Method. That's a fun way to see kind of fun videos and event announcements and stuff. So find us there. I just think that having a really great romantic life is possible for everybody. And it takes support it takes implementing things and learning things, just like anything else, you know, you wouldn't expect to just never have played tennis and pick up a tennis racket and like expect to like play Wimbledon, you know, but just because you had didn't have great conditioning or you never learned or you've had bad experiences doesn't mean that you can't learn.

Gwyn 43:20
That's such a good point. Everybody expects to be perfect at this thing that none of us are taught how to do. Very few people are ever taught anything actual real when it comes to sex and sexuality. Except for you know, don't get pregnant and don't get a disease. If you're lucky. That's what you get.

Alicia Davon 43:37
Totally! [Laughs] No wonder so many people are scared of sex. They're like, Okay, I try. I was taught it was very dangerous and weird.

Gwyn 43:44
Well, Alicia Davon, and I have one last question I ask everyone. Which is what excites you?

Alicia Davon 43:51
Oh, let's see, when you asked me that what flash to me was a very sunny afternoon in my backyard chilling with friends and family. I just imagined the sun hitting my face. It's raining outside right now. So that's what excites me. Chillin in the sun.

Gwyn 44:12
Love it! Thank you so much for coming on. And we'll be sure to put all the information in the show notes. As it sounds like you guys are doing really great work.

Alicia Davon 44:21
Thank you for having me.

Gwyn 44:28 Okay, I really want to know what you thought of this episode. Like really, really, really want to know what you thought? What stood out the most? What are you going to start practicing? What about the extended orgasm technique? Are you going to try it? Or does it sound like WAAAH?

Go visit whatexcitesus.com and click the SpeakPipe button to tell me anonymously because I really, I'm serious. I really want to know. Or of course you can join us on Patreon which will then include you in our Discord and you can tell me there, wink wink, nudge nudge. Okay, that's cheesy. I know it's cheesy, but what are you going to do I'm cheesy.

Also, don't forget to contact Alicia and sign up for some of her programs or coaching. The link for that is in the show notes. Or if you are one of those people who can remember things, its pleasurecourse.com. And if you go there soon, you can sign up for their upcoming two day class, The Five Keys to a Successful Relationship which is happening, May 20, and 21st. So the Five Keys to a Successful Relationship, two day class with Alicia and Erwan Davon, go visit the pleasurecourse.com. They have lots of other classes there too. And you can learn how to become an individual client as well.

What Excites Us is produced, edited and hosted by me, Gwyn Isaacs, all music is used under the Creative Commons Attribution license. This week that includes The Vendetta by Steven Kartonberg, and this is Growth in the Garden (The Feelgood Mix) by Doxent Zsigmond. Tickle.life hosts the podcast and many others, and they have lots of other great sex and sexuality content too. Thank you so much for listening. I super appreciate you. Rock on.