What Excites Me!

Episode 17 - Tell All with Aetherius: A Kinky 35 year old Trans Woman

Episode 17 - Tell All with Aetherius: A Kinky 35 year old Trans Woman

This episode is a tell-all with Aetherius, and she does not hold back. Aetherius is a 35-year-old trans woman. She is a prominent member of a small kink group in northern Vermont, and she says that even though she is newer to the scene she feels like she’s found a piece of herself she didn’t realize was missing. She works in IT, enjoys gaming with her children, and relaxing with her wife and their boyfriend.


Gwyn  0:00  
This episode is for adults only, please.

Aetherius  0:04 
We were trying to teach the robot that's a learning robot, how to balance when things happen. And then the smart AI self aware robots will go yes, but you didn't have consent, because consent is everything!

Gwyn  0:24
Hello, and welcome to What Excites Us!, the show that discusses sex and sexuality throughout time and place, including the here and now. My name is Gwyn Isaacs, I am a certified sex coach and educator, and today is a tell all episode with Aetherius and she does not hold back. Aetherius this is a 35 year old trans woman. She is a prominent member of a small kink community in northern Vermont. And she says that even though she is newer to the scene, she feels like she's found a piece of herself she didn't realize was missing. She works in IT, enjoys gaming with her children, and relaxing with her wife and their boyfriend. 

This episode of What Excites Us! is brought to you by me! I'm Gwyn Isaacs. And besides being your podcast host, I'm a certified sex coach and educator. And right now I have some openings for text based clients. I love coaching over email and text. It allows you to be open and vulnerable in ways that may feel too difficult in person, which lets us tackle the concerns you have at your own pace. Very few of us were taught how to have sex, most of us are feeling our way through the dark, hoping we get it right. I can help you build skills in the bedroom and navigate your intimate relationships. I have two ways you can sign up to start texting with me right away. When you go to earthlydesire.com/coaching you will find a weekly subscription for daily correspondence. And a way to schedule a live one hour text chat. Visit earthlydesire.com to start on your path of more pleasure today. You deserve it!

Hi, how delightful! I'm so honored honestly that you reached out and wanted to do this with me. You don't know me? You don't you know, you know, this is delightful. What a treat. Thank you.

Aetherius  2:31  
Thank you. And I'm I'm very happy to be here and very happy that you agreed because while you don't know me. One of your previous podcasts just inspired me and I wanted to reach out and just spread more awareness of us as trans women and trans individuals, and where we differentiate and fall and you know, everybody's an individual.

Gwyn  2:55  
So why don't we start by just introduce yourself and give us a very brief what you think people should know about you.

Aetherius  3:02  
Okay, you guys may call me Aetherius. I'm a 35 year old woman married to my wife. I am a transgender woman. And I began my transition about four and a half years ago, closer to five actually. And within the last year, I think actually because of COVID. We met our now boyfriend. And we became very active in a small, least of my thoughts small, BDSM kink group here in our state, and just absolutely enjoying exploring ourselves and learning what we like and don't like.

Gwyn  3:36  
Beautiful. So I presume you live with your wife? 

Aetherius  3:39  

Gwyn  3:40  
Most do. Not all but most do. Does your boyfriend also live with you guys?

Aetherius  3:45  
Sadly, no he's about an hour drive away.

Gwyn  3:48  
And is it a full thruple? Everybody is engaged with everybody else?

Aetherius  3:52  
Yes, yeah, we are a full thruple and within our BDSM group. And when we are at parties with permission from each other, we do explore with other people. And we have fun. Two years ago, my wife had said that this would never happen. And then actually I go as far back as three years because two years ago it was actually itching at the back of her mind. But then I had major surgery last November or November 2020. And it was kind of a it was a domino effect in our relationship. You know, we got we've gotten closer over the last five years because I've become more emotionally available. I'm not emotionally crippled inside of myself anymore. And with the downtime that I had, starting in 2020 after my surgery, started getting more friends over the summer as I was healing because I wasn't at work. We made friends we went places we met people. She got more comfortable with my friends group who I had started to become more friends with during my downtime and throughout the beginnings of COVID chatting with them. And going into luncheons and meetups, COVID very safe, masks, distance. We parked our cars in a circle. We sat in the back of our cars, we all brought Chinese food. Yeah. And then we went on, we had our first kind of exploratory with our back then he was our friend, it just blossomed. And he just, he's part of our family now.

Gwyn  5:25  
That's a lovely story. How delightful that you have a male unicorn. You know, not that you are a unicorn hunting, but not a whole lot of men get to enjoy that dynamic. And I think it's delightful that it has worked out for the three of you. It's just it's lovely

Aetherius  5:42  
He's very appreciative. And we have a lot of fun, a lot of things. I'm understanding how actually more lighthearted the community is because of him. 

Gwyn  5:51  

Aetherius  5:51  
Because I used to before I actually got into it, I used to think it was this always hardcore, always serious place. But no. Everybody I've met is just lovely people. A lot of it's light hearted. There's always the gatherings and the parties and whatever we want to call them that I've attended. There's more laughs than anything. We're all there to just be ourselves and have fun.

Gwyn  6:14  
Yeah. How long have you and your wife been married? Or how long have you been together? Or both?

Aetherius  6:21  
My wife and I have been friends since ninth grade. 

Gwyn  6:26  

Aetherius  6:28  
 it gets better. We have been together since midway through 10th grade. And we've been married for over 10 years now. She has stuck with me, and adapted to everything so great, graciously. And so just, wonderfully. At first, when I first started my transition, we were worried. But, and for anybody listening who's in a relationship and worried about it, communication is the key. Always talk, always be open. You're going to feel selfish, and there are times that your partner is going to feel selfish. Talk about it, talk through it. The biggest hurdle that anyone can try to get over is silence. Because the silence can breed misunderstanding and resentment. Just talk about what you need. Be open to conversations. 

Gwyn  7:23  
It's really hard. 

Aetherius  7:24
It's hard.

Gwyn  7:26  
One of the things that you said when you were first speaking was you were more available more emotionally available. 

Aetherius  7:32  

Gwyn  7:33  
And and that's so intense, and huge, and feels overwhelming to try and get through.

Aetherius  7:43  
It can be very overwhelming. Emotions, especially when you've had them locked inside your heart for 920 years, and you really start to dive into them. As an adult. It's scary and it's instinctual to try to pull away, and hide within yourself and try to explore it a little bit in yourself. Some people, that's what they need. Some people like me, I needed to talk through it. I don't think of myself as an activist on any sense. But I am a talker, and I'm always happy to share my stories and experiences. That's actually why I'm here because the more experiences get shared, the more awareness there is. And the less alone people feel.

Gwyn  8:22  
Yeah, that's why I do the show. Is to help shine light on all these thoughts and feelings that other people have done because as a sex coach, one of the biggest questions really boils down to am I normal? And the answer is always yes.

Aetherius  8:40  
Yeah. That was a question that my wife actually went through during my downtime last year. And actually, I've been intercourse wise, I have been down for over a year, I have not been able to have any sort of penetrative intercourse in over a year. And during the early parts of my first surgery, because I just had a follow up surgery this past November, I was completely out. One thing that forced or that happened was it forced her to confront her own sexuality and sexual needs. She's always been a very passive partner. She's very much a bottom, very much a submissive, and it's glorious. But it forced her to examine what she needs, and come to terms with herself. That's something that I had been working on for a very long time, especially during my transition. Things I'm curious about things that I want, things that I need. And I openly expressed them to her and encouraged her to tell me what she needs. And she could not for the longest time. It was always I'm happy or especially before surgery because I listened to what she needed then and did everything she could want me to do. But then during my downtime, she was forced to confront her own self. And that's what led us to here

Gwyn  10:00  
Lots and lots and lots of women, mostly women, some guys, but mostly women have no idea what what they want. None because sex is portrayed as such a male activity. 

Aetherius  10:15  
Yes, it really is.

Gwyn  10:17  
It's if a woman has an orgasm, like, Oh, that's a bonus. So many women just have no idea how to even begin to figure out what they want. That your wife spent some time working on it is wonderful and amazing, because lots of women die never knowing. And that just breaks my heart.

Aetherius  10:36  
It breaks mine as well. And that's also one thing that I love about our boyfriend is his role historically in the community has been that of more of a sub. And more of the denial enthusiast, so he's always been more focused on his partner than on getting his own. In his mind, and in his explanation, if he gets off, that's the bonus. And that's very much my mindset as well is my goal going into any encounter, unless I am the center, my focus is on pleasing my partner, to the point where they're just a puddle. 

Gwyn  11:15

Aetherius  11:16  
I enjoy, especially when I am with a vagina having partner, because they're much more easy to give multiple orgasms to is to bring them to the point of death. And then bring them back with cuddles. I call it orgasm torture.

Gwyn  11:33  
Oh, that's amazing. So let's go back a little bit. Tell me about your transition story. And what led you to where you are.

Aetherius  11:41  
This is one heck of a story, 

Gwyn  11:43  
Great, I'll sit back. 

Aetherius  11:44  
It's gonna be a bouncing in time, we're gonna go back and forth. So around the time I was 30, I just had what I call a catalyst moment. And I'm not gonna go into great detail about it. But there was a situation, I had to wear my wife's clothes to bed one night, my body was super sensitive. My chest and nipples were like insanely sensitive to wear my normal shirts back then were too rough. So she gave me a sports bra. And one of her super soft shirts to wear. I call that my waking up moment. And then the next couple of months, I really started to explore my gender, my expression and who I was. And it was deep dives, especially with my counselor, my therapist, and with her and within myself. And for the longest time, the way I expressed it as I didn't know until then, and which is completely okay. To not know and to be woken up. And working with my counselor and really diving into my past and things that I had done with myself and explored and been curious and uncomfortable feelings actually go back to when I was as far back as I can remember. As a child, knowing what pads were, and wondering why I never got to use them even as a five year old kid. So I would hoard them in my bedroom and put them in my underwear and hide them, or before my parents could find them wondering why I couldn't wear the pretty underwear that my sister wore. And one particular vivid one, my younger sister got a brand new yellow skirt, and she was twirling it in the living room. And I remember not understanding why I felt it, but I just felt jealous that I would never get to wear that. Because my parents would say no. And then the reason I mentioned 10 years old was right before I turned 10 years old, we moved to a new town. And it was about that time that I was really starting to feel different. And not like the other kids. I was the most miserable kid I could ever imagine. I had multiple suicide attempts at 10 years old. And the one that started it, started my regression into myself, was I tried to hang myself in the garage. And my younger sister saved my life and said that she couldn't imagine why I was doing that. And she can't go on without me. So that was the point I started repressing everything. Literally the only emotion, emotions I had left after that were anger and anger based emotions. And from then on, I basically lived for my family and for those around me. And I lived for other people the next 20 years. Not for myself. The world felt like a play. Like I was cast into a play that I didn't have any choice of cast. I was just thrust into this character. It didn't feel real. And I was there for everybody else but myself. When that wasn't enough, it was anger. It was rage. It was this burning ball of just pure negativeness, anger, rage, darkness. And I don't know, I'm sure many of the listeners will understand that feeling of living in darkness and the toll it can take on you. It saps away your soul little by little. And by the time I was 30 years old, I was just about tapped out. If that catalyst moment in April of 2017 hadn't happened, I wouldn't be here today. You can only live for other people for so long. And I still struggled with some suicidal ideation for the next several years. But I found for myself, as my own person, surgery wiped that out, I'm myself now finally. And I since November 2020, I haven't had any suicidal ideations, I'm completely open to talking about it, open to discussing it and thinking I can feel those feelings now. They are memories.

Gwyn  15:53  
I'm so glad that you stuck around through that and, and found yourself when you were shut down and repressing everything did you experience dysphoria, body dysmorphia at all? Or just nothing?

Aetherius  16:08  
Nothing. I was so numb, I didn't feel a thing. I explored my body sexually, as most teenagers did, but, and I didn't understand it at the time, and now I do, had a very strong urge to be penetrated. And I would do that with whatever I could get my hands on that didn't feel unsafe.

Gwyn  16:25  
So when you are having typical teen experiences with your then girlfriend, now wife, and not really enjoying them, or were you finding some pleasure?

Aetherius  16:38  
I had pleasure. I had fun. I enjoyed being with her. But my focus was always on her. Always on her and her orgasms and her enjoyment, because that's what made it fun for me, because I actually hadn't thought about that in that way. Thank you for asking me that. Because no, for myself as myself? No, I didn't enjoy it very much. I mean, I obviously had physical pleasure, because orgasms feel good anyway. But no, my focus. That's actually why my focus was on her so much back then. 

Gwyn  17:09 
Did you masturbate at all? 

Aetherius  17:11  
Yes. And it was more of a stress relief than anything. The flood of good feeling endorphins and hormones afterwards, the most pleasurable time of masturbating would be when I would penetrate myself with a toy or object. And that was the most satisfying but then after I would be flooded with feelings of confusion as to why it felt so good, because I didn't identify as a gay male back then. And I would not understand why feeling like being penetrated felt so right. And so wonderful to me. And well, now I know, because I am a pansexual woman.

Gwyn  17:44  
Yeah, I mean, that is absolutely true. It also, there's just starting to be the tiniest little bits of education, in the pleasure realm, that straight men also enjoy being penetrated. 

Aetherius  17:59  

Gwyn  17:59  
Everybody has an anus, and the anus is full of nerve endings. And if you treat them right, they feel good.

Aetherius  18:08  
And especially for those who have a prostate, it is absolutely amazing. And now, I'm gonna brag a little bit about my own personal anatomy. Because now that I have a vagina, I now not only have the vagina to get stimulated through the, through the rectal tissue, but I also have the prostate to get stimulated back there as well. So I get it twofold. 

Gwyn  18:33  
Oh, that's exciting! 

Aetherius  18:35  
Gods, it feels so amazing.

Gwyn  18:38  
Would you mind telling us a little bit about that? In general, I tend to not want to, you know, genitals are personal and everybody doesn't need to know about everybody else's genitals. But since you've mentioned it, would you mind telling us a little bit about the surgery and what it's been like for you?

Aetherius  18:57  
It's difficult to describe. It's very different for everybody that has vaginal reconstruction. I had mine at a hospital nearby. Dartmouth Hitchcock is amazing. The nursing staff is absolutely fabulous. The doctors that reconstructed my vagina absolutely amazing and had been amazing throughout the whole process. Healing was rough. It's a long road of healing. And I didn't have typical healing. I had some swelling that wouldn't go away. So I had to have a second surgery to fix that. And now that it's fixed, according to my wife, it's just a normal vagina, a normal vulva. With some healing scars. my clit works just fine. I love her. Orgasms are so much better now. They feel so much better and there's so much more fun to get. And I am definitely finding that mood and mindset are more important than any kind of physical touch. Before I could shut my brain off and just hammer away until splooge. But now I have to stay in that mindset and really enjoy and explore myself. Which is sometimes very difficult for somebody who has severe ADHD like me.

Gwyn  20:04  
Absolutely. Sex on ADHD is always a challenge. There are there are tricks, but you seem to know them already, which is basically hone in on a sensation. And just Yep,

Aetherius  20:16  
Yeah, well, I found I need though is audio stimulation. So having having a good sounding and sensual sounding porn on in the background, gets me in the mood. And keeps my brain there, and it lets my brain shut off and just focus. So having other people have sex and orgasms around me, helps me relax enough to have my own.

Gwyn  20:39  
It's wonderful that you figured that out. 

Aetherius  20:43  
Since my surgery, I have truly become my own woman. I feel more myself. Yeah, and I know some I know some women who are in similar situations who they are 100% their own woman, and they don't ever plan on having surgery. They still they're bottom women. And they're happy with how their bodies are for me, personally, I needed it.

Gwyn  21:08  
Are you going to need a dilator forever?  

Aetherius  21:11  
I do dilate. Kind of. Once I am comfortable and healed, like right now since I've had two surgeries, I have a lot of scar tissue. And once that gets broken down enough to where I am comfortable having sex, my vagina is fully ready for sex, medically speaking. Physically, actual feeling, she is not. But sex once a week, penetrative sex once a week from now, especially since I'm more than a year out would be enough. It is recommended to dilate at least once a week after you're a year to 18 months out. And that includes penetrative sex. Stick something in your vagina and your good.

Gwyn  21:54  
So how has it been, your transition, for your family and for others out in the, quote unquote, regular world.

Aetherius  22:03  
There have been areas that have been very tough. We've lost family members. I've lost a job. Although I can't prove it, it was definitely because of me being me. But overall, I'm a better person than I was. And I'm a more open and honest person with who I am. And with that, I make better friends, I'm a better person to work with. And it's improved my outside life dramatically. Yeah. And what's been wonderful is there's been enough change in our lives to where there's still familiar people. But the people that are still familiar, accept me as finally myself not as the character I played. But I'm also in such new spaces that I am just me to them. There's no previous life baggage. But with that said, I've also had to relearn how to interact with society. Especially since I am fully me, relearning how to interact with society has been a very interesting endeavor. I'm a very assertive woman as well, I say I'm switch in the BDSM community. Because that bleeds into my daily life. But I am mostly a very dominant leaning switch, again, that bleeds into my everyday life, because I'm a very assertive woman. I make myself known, and I make them hear me. In the very way of, I will lock them in the eyes, and they will eventually look to the floor. 

Gwyn  23:28  
Rock on!  So tell me about your introduction into the kink community and how you got there and where you are now. 

Aetherius  23:38  
Yeah, I've been interested in it for many years. But especially with my transition, it's become very much more apparent that it's a piece of who I am. And talking with our boyfriend, you know, him and I were friends for a few years. No, we met years ago, still after my transition, and we've been talking about it. I've been on Fet for a long time. And really the last year is when we really got introduced in exploring it and really learning myself and the dynamic that I am in the community, has really blossomed in the last six months. And one particular member has helped me explore like what I need with the non dominant side of myself. And she's talking with her and interacting with her and exploring things with her. She's like, No, no, honey, you are not a submissive in any sense. You are a melter. You don't submit, but you can be melted. And I thought about that and yep, that's that's absolutely true. Get me into the right headspace and I will melt and do whatever.

Gwyn  24:38  
How did you even hear about kink? You know, what was your first even cartoony kind of like, did you see it in a porn? Did you like read an Anne Rice book? Like, you know, how did this even occur to you in the first place?

Aetherius  24:51 
I've always been aware of it. But only aware of it since as far back as I can remember as a teenager exploring what sex is. I was drawn immediately to it. But only in a that's kind of cool way. Originally, I stumbled across FetLife. Because well, that's where we end up a lot of the times, somehow those of us who are interested, find our way there a lot. I met friends there that I chatted with for a while, who would phase in and out. And then I would phase in and out that I learned that some real life friends were on it, and talking and involved in the scenes and talked with them and learned a little bit here and a little bit there over the years. And then we met our boyfriend, and got involved with his group and kinda jumped head on into it and dragged my wife with me. And then she came along happily. Got comfortable with our friends, got comfortable with the group got comfortable talking with it. And again, this last year, she's really opened herself up to exploring herself.

Gwyn  25:51  
Was there a particular activity that piqued your interest or style of being that you were like, Oh, that's cool.

Aetherius  26:00  
Mine would definitely be group play. There's a lot of power in being the person in the middle of the group. And being the person in the middle of the group is something that is, yeah, I don't have a word for it. But over the early fall, we were at a party, I was on an examination table chained to a bed with my arms and my feet up in I don't even know what to call them. Like horse stirrups 

Gwyn  26:28  
Stirrups, yeah. 

Aetherius  26:29  
And I had my wife here, my boyfriend here and another part of our group between my legs with a Hitachi. And it was the most amazing experience I've ever had. And I'm a very curious person. So I want to try everything. Like I learned with our boyfriend that I absolutely love sucking dick. I love giving oral anyway, like absolutely love it. Well, I've never sucked a dick before and with him, it's so much fun. I have complete control over him in that moment. It's it's funny, because even he has a weird complex about it, because I love doing things that would typically be viewed as a submissive activity, but I do it in a dominant way. Does that make any sense?

Gwyn  27:10  
Absolutely. 100%.

Aetherius  27:12  
I get on my knees because I choose to, and they will stand there because I choose them to.

Gwyn  27:18  
Because you said so, that's what I want. So that's what I'm gonna do. 

Aetherius  27:22  

Gwyn  27:23  
How wonderful that you have found something that is exciting. And, when you started talking about it, I could see your eyes light up. It was just it was beautiful. You're like, Yes, this is the thing. And you have an open mind to want to continue and curiosity to want to continue exploring is just yay. It's just yay 

Aetherius  27:45 
I want to try everything. And I'm of the personality that if something doesn't work, okay.  At the same party, me and the same woman who was between my legs were out in the middle of a field in the middle of a thunderstorm. And it was absolutely amazing! It was so sexy. I think it's become a core memory at this point. 

Gwyn  28:04  
Sure, that's delightful. 

Aetherius  28:06  
Like my wife, she's a super submissive in the bedroom. Outside of the bedroom. She is not or outside of the scene she is not. But get her in the mindset and then the scene, yeah. She loves spanking. She didn't realize it until we brought our boyfriend in and we're playing around with it and he brought some floggers. And even to this day, she will not say that she loves it. Just like she still won't say that she enjoys anal. But when I stare at her in her eyes, and I'm like you love it. She does the the nod the submissive good girl head nod with her eyes downturn. Yes.

Gwyn  28:39  
Well, there's a lot of unpacking to do around admitting that with words.

Aetherius  28:45  
Yeah, it took me a long time to as well. 

Gwyn  28:47  
Yeah. And you are clearly very assertive go getter kind of person, so...

Aetherius  28:52  
Sometimes too much. ADHD tends to drive them both crazy. Like I'd love to cuddle. But I can never sit still for more than four minutes. So I lay on the couch and cuddle with one of them. And then I'm up doing things whereas my wife and our boyfriend can sit on the couch or in the bed cuddling for hours just enjoying each other's companies. And then I get jealous about that because I want to be there but I cannot sit there for more than four minutes. Exploring and entering the BDSM community has been almost as big of an eye opener as my transition has been. It's part of who I am. It's not part of who everyone is. Being the dominant in my throuple has been a very amazing and very frustrating thing because I have two cuddle bugs that love to cuddle and I can never sit still

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Gwyn  30:11  
So what else would you like to be sure to share?

Aetherius  30:15  
Everybody's experience is valid! Whether you are interested in the BDSM community, exploring your identity, heavy hardcore into both. Even if you are taking on highly non-traditional roles, and especially if you have conflicted or guilty feelings about it, you're valid. Your experiences, who you are, you are valid, you are real, and you're worth every minute of your life that you've existed. And don't ever let anybody else try to tell you otherwise. And if they do, it's because they're afraid in their own life. And just be yourself. Even if that self is scary. It gets easier. And the hardest lesson that I've ever had to learn is to have empathy for yourself. Forgive yourself! And maybe have somebody spank you if that's what you need. Or have somebody tie you to a chair, and not let you have orgasms for five minutes. That's one of my favorite things to do to people.

Gwyn  31:14  
So the last question that I asked everyone is, what excites you?

Aetherius  31:19  
Everything. I know, it's a bullshit answer. But even the things that piss me off or make me sad, or upset me, that excites me. The emotions, feeling, touch, the world, getting angry, getting happy, getting excited, it it all excites me. Because life, life is here. And life is what you make it. And if you can find the smallest amount of excitement in your life, it can brighten your entire day. Give somebody a compliment, you'll feel better. I love to try to give one compliment a day, at minimum. And that can turn my entire day around and it can turn the person who receives the compliments entire day around, and it's genuine. If you feel that urge that, hey, I like that. Tell them. Tell yourself and then tell them and I've seen it cascade.

Gwyn  32:23  
Thank you so much, Aetherius. This has been an enlightening and pleasant and delightful conversation and I truly appreciate you choosing to come on with me. I'm honored. It's it means a lot to me. Thank you. 

Aetherius  32:40  
Thank you. It means a lot to be to be on here. And to talk about my experiences. I know I rambled a lot. But that's because I was enjoying it.

Gwyn  32:52  
I love having discussions like these because we are all so different. And it's wonderful to have insight into what others are doing behind closed doors. I believe it helps normalize all the varied expressions of sex out there that there are. If you would like to have a Tell-All conversation with me, or have anything else you would like to share, please reach out on the website. Whatexcitesus.com You can click the button to record a message, Or you can send me an email at gwyn@earthlydesire.com. Join me next time when I'll be chatting with Alicia Davon. A relationship and romance expert who along with her husband run several exciting programs to help people unleash the joy, connection and orgasm potential they're missing from their lives. Be sure you have subscribed because you really don't want to miss the deep discussion and directions she shares about how every body can have extended orgasms.

If you would like to support this work, please buy me a coffee or join me on Patreon. You can find links on how to do that at the website, whatexcitesus.com. Or if you want to learn more about me, or becoming a coaching client, you can do that at earthlydesire.com. What Excites Us! is produced, edited and hosted by me Gwyn Isaacs, our music is used under the Creative Commons Attribution license. This week that includes The Vendetta by Steven Kartenberg Harmony by PolyPlus. And this is Turning Into Normal (What Once Felt Strange) by SackJo22. Tickle.life posts the podcast and many others and they have lots of great sex and sexuality content there too. Thank you so much for listening. I super appreciate you. You are Awesome!